AG Setup - A Few Questions

So I've been reading around here for the last week or so, contemplating what I'll need to make the jump to AG. I've already got a wort chiller (hooray for LHBS gift certificates as wedding gifts!) and a 20 qt. brewpot that I have been using for extract batches. And all of the fermenting, bottling doo-dads and whatnot.

I was thinking I could do this - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/ for the MLT fairly simple. And then I would just need a brewpot with a spigot and some kind of tubing to transfer the liquid from the MLT to the brewpot and then from the brewpot to the fermenter - any suggestions (on the brewpot and what kind of tubing to use?) I really don't trust myself to try a keg conversion on my own, and I don't think I was be able to use my stove top anymore - there's only a 19.5" clearance from the burners to the hood. Anything else that I am forgetting?

Also, I have been doing all of my extract brewing on my kitchen stove, is there any reason folks do with the standalone burners or is is it more to get out of the way of SWMBO?

This site is awesome, I definitely spend way too much of the workday on here some days! Thank you

I use the MLT in the link provided and it works great. I don't use a hose to transfer the runnings from the MLT to the boiling pot. I use ale pails. Quick and easy. I use a propane burner not just because it gets me outta the house but because there is no way my kitchen stove could bring 6-7 gallons of wort to a boil. As far as tubing for your pot to get the wort into your fermenter....I'm sure there is a specific type to use, but, I've been using plain ole racking tubing for the last 2 years or so. I ain't dead yet.

If you don't mind paying a bit for tubing, Norprene A-60-F hot food & liquid tubing is food grade & rated for 275-degrees or so. That's what I used and I'm very happy with it. very flexible, doesn't appear to impart any flavor or odor, and will handle even boiling liquids w/ ease. I don't know of any brewshops that carry it (a coupe online places did but were out of stock). I bought mine from usplastics.com... only sold in 10' increments though.

Hammy71 said:

I use the MLT in the link provided and it works great. I don't use a hose to transfer the runnings from the MLT to the boiling pot. I use ale pails. Quick and easy. I use a propane burner not just because it gets me outta the house but because there is no way my kitchen stove could bring 6-7 gallons of wort to a boil. As far as tubing for your pot to get the wort into your fermenter....I'm sure there is a specific type to use, but, I've been using plain ole racking tubing for the last 2 years or so. I ain't dead yet.

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Does anyone else have this issue? Is it just "I don't want to wait the amount of time it takes to get 7 gallons to a boil" or its just never gonna do it. I wasn't planning on forking out for a burner. But then again, all this stuff is adding up to more than I foolishly initially expected:

15 gallon brewpot (I'm figuring why not buy a larger one to do larger batches now) - Whether I go Polarware (with thermometer added on) or Boilermaker, its looking around $300-350 - I decided I didn't want to go the keggle route as it would limit me to keeping it out of my kitchen.
Grain Mill - $120-140
Cooler and Hardware to Make Mash Tun $50-70

So looking at $470-560

So whats another $100 or so for a burner and stand? Then again that's setting up the burner in my basement (No real garage at my place, just a carport) limits my access to clean water.

Jeebas said:

Does anyone else have this issue? .

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It depends on what kind of stove you have. many have electric and it's just not going to bring that amount of wort to temp.

If you have a higher end gas stove that will put out some good btu's then you can do it.

I will tell you that my propane burner kicks out 170,000 BTU's. My gas stoves biggest burner kicks out 15,000 btu's or therabouts. That's significant.

Also, If you are looking at 15 gallon pots, you must be considering doing 10 gallon batches (or why else would you get a pot that size?). No stove that I know will get 13 gallons up to boil.

You can save costs from what you describe above. look at craigslist, but a 15 gallon pot from an asian restaurant, grainmills don't have to cost 100+ - search "my ugly junk corona mill" in the search field above for ideas.

If you are at all handy, a lot of homebrew supplies can be DIY and save yourself a ton of $$

fyi: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/bayou-burners-sale-199363/

Jeebas said:

Does anyone else have this issue? Is it just "I don't want to wait the amount of time it takes to get 7 gallons to a boil" or its just never gonna do it. I wasn't planning on forking out for a burner. But then again, all this stuff is adding up to more than I foolishly initially expected:

15 gallon brewpot (I'm figuring why not buy a larger one to do larger batches now) - Whether I go Polarware (with thermometer added on) or Boilermaker, its looking around $300-350 - I decided I didn't want to go the keggle route as it would limit me to keeping it out of my kitchen.
Grain Mill - $120-140
Cooler and Hardware to Make Mash Tun $50-70

So looking at $470-560

So whats another $100 or so for a burner and stand? Then again that's setting up the burner in my basement (No real garage at my place, just a carport) limits my access to clean water.

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I went with a 20-gallon aluminum pot from eBay - $60
3 Stainless ball lock weldless from bargain fittings - $27 each totaling $83 (brass would be cheaper)
Got the 10-gal igloo water cooler for $20
Used my 9-gallon former BK as the HLT - $repurpose (originally $55)
Weldless termometer kit and 3-inch probe thermometer from bargain fittings - $31
pasta roller grain mill from Michaels - $15 (required some DIY carpentry)
burner was a turkey fryer setup from amazon - $40 (no pot)
3/8x50' Immersion chiller copper from eBay - $35
fittings from home depot - $2.50

That's the bulk of my setup. It was pieced together over time, but in total I kept it under $350. I can do 10-gallon batches up to 1.070 without having to use extract. The two limitations for me right now are the 10-gal MLT and the 9-gallon HLT. They are too small for big beers unless I'm doing a partial mash (using extract to boost abv).

I'd highly suggest a cheaper Stainless pot unless you really want the pretty factor. You can probably but it by half if you go with one of these, which are still very good pots, just not brand name:

http://www.cooksdirect.com/product/19266/stock-pots?utm_source=shopzilla&utm_medium=referral

I do up to 8 gallon boils on my electric ceramic top range. It takes about 20-30 minutes for me to get a boil. I seem however to be in the minority whose stoves are able to handle this.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am realizing more and more that getting a burner might be the best route. Now that I think about it, although I don't have the garage I do have this outside addition room (base board heating if I ever decide to rbew on a really cold day) that sits on top of the carport that would work - no stairs to carry water / full MLT to and from the kitchen.

I was looking to eventually do 10 gallon batches... I figured that if I am gonna drop the $ I may as well plan ahead. Are there any issues with doing boils for 5 gallon batches in 15 gallon BKs?

I couldn't find the BTUs for this - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000291GBQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 - on the page, but it seems from the comments that it would work just fine (thanks for the link phatuna)

Jeebas said:

I couldn't find the BTUs for this - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000291GBQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 - on the page, but it seems from the comments that it would work just fine (thanks for the link phatuna)

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185,000 http://www.bayouclassiccooking.com/high-pressure-cooker.html

phatuna said:

185,000 http://www.bayouclassiccooking.com/high-pressure-cooker.html

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Thanks!

Free shipping too! I may have to pull the trigger on that right now...

I used that one for a long time. It's a workhorse. just remember, when you get past your hotbreak, turn the burner waaaay down so that the wort is just "rolling". if you leave it wide open, you'll burn propane unnecesarily and your evaporation rate will be extremely high.

have fun!

Mischief_Brewing said:

I went with a 20-gallon aluminum pot from eBay - $60
3 Stainless ball lock weldless from bargain fittings - $27 each totaling $83 (brass would be cheaper)
Got the 10-gal igloo water cooler for $20
Used my 9-gallon former BK as the HLT - $repurpose (originally $55)
Weldless termometer kit and 3-inch probe thermometer from bargain fittings - $31
pasta roller grain mill from Michaels - $15 (required some DIY carpentry)
burner was a turkey fryer setup from amazon - $40 (no pot)
3/8x50' Immersion chiller copper from eBay - $35
fittings from home depot - $2.50

That's the bulk of my setup. It was pieced together over time, but in total I kept it under $350. I can do 10-gallon batches up to 1.070 without having to use extract. The two limitations for me right now are the 10-gal MLT and the 9-gallon HLT. Their a too small for big beers unless I'm doing a partial mash (using extract to boost abv).

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I quickly went from doing 5 gal last winter to 10 gal batches in the spring, so the 20 gal aluminum brew pot is good advice. Plenty of boil room and all the water you need for mashing and at very little additional equipment cost. I find the Ice Cube (igloo) cooler makes a great MLT as I have done 30 lb grain bills which has yielded nice 1.070-1.080 IPA's. You can even get two Ice Cube coolers and use them as ice-water-bath fermenters. Get a strong propane burner and you'll be making 4.5 cases of good beer in 6-7 hours.

coastwx said:

I quickly went from doing 5 gal last winter to 10 gal batches in the spring, so the 20 gal aluminum brew pot is good advice. Plenty of boil room and all the water you need for mashing and at very little additional equipment cost. I find the Ice Cube (igloo) cooler makes a great MLT as I have done 30 lb grain bills which has yielded nice 1.070-1.080 IPA's. You can even get two Ice Cube coolers and use them as ice-water-bath fermenters. Get a strong propane burner and you'll be making 4.5 cases of good beer in 6-7 hours.

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I'm contemplating a bigger HLT and going the Ice Cube route but if I spent another penny on equipment, the CFO would kill me. We have too many underfunded house projects for me to keep spending on my completely functional brew system.

I don't really need to do more than 5 gallons of that 1.120 stout do I?

One of the other concerns that I have is if i go outside to this addition (see attached image) I am now removing myself from a sink. I thought there would be two ways of getting around this
1) Fill a bucket (or two) up with all of the mash, sparge water that I will need for the batch. Add water to BK when needed and heat mash / sparge water on propane burner. this would eat up more propane but might be better than
2) Heat mash and sparge water inside and carry pots of 160 / 180 water through the house and out to the addition to put into MLT. This would also require two trips, but would save on propane.

Another issue that I thought of was the wort chiller - I am fairly certain that I could hook up the garden hose to this but I'm not sure what to do with the output water? I don't have a drain in that room, and since it's over a carport I really don't want to add any plumbing to it. I could maybe just have two empty buckets to drain it into and then switch it over once the one gets full and periodically dump the water outside? Not very green I know, but I can't think of any other solution than attaching the end of the output tube from the wort chiller to a garden hose and running that back inside to the sink.

Has anyone had any experience using these - http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_089W477221110001P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6 - as an MLT?

Jeebas said:

Has anyone had any experience using these - http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_089W477221110001P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6 - as an MLT?

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Yes that is my MLT. It is a good price as I bought mine for $32. I ash at 151 -154 and have not had any problems holding temperature. It does not matter if I preheat or simply ad my hot water. I have done 6 batches in it and have not had any problems, including the sides warping from the mash temps.

I've been using the setup you're considering now and love it. I use the MLT described, a propane burner, 20qt stockpot, and keggle. If you can avoid it, don't carry hot water through the house, it's just asking for an accident. What I do is use my stockpot on the propane burner for heating all my mash/sparge water, and drain the MLT into the keggle. To save time, once my last sparge water has been added to the MLT, I throw the keggle on the heat to start it on its way to a boil.

For your hose water question, you have a couple options. The first and hottest water usually goes into my MLT (after the grain is emptied, of course), which gets some oxyclean added to it, and all my brew-day equipment that fits gets thrown in there for a good cleaning soak. Since you can't let the water just run off into the carport, maybe you can try a pond pump and a cooler or bucket full of ice. Since the ground water temp here in Florida tends to be too hot most of the year for adequate beer cooling, I use one of these submersed in a cooler full of ice and some water to pump chilled water into the wort chiller, with the output water recirculated back into the cooler. I usually don't switch to that setup until the wort is somewhat chilled, so as to not waste ice, but as long as you get enough ice, it should work fine for you. Best of luck man!

I've read many threads on the aluminum vs SS debate and the pros and cons of both. What do folks think about these - http://www.cooksdirect.com/product/economy-aluminum-stock-pots/stock-pots

Half the price of the SS ones!

I use something like those in the link. I bought mine at Cash and Carry. About the same price. The 60 qt is fine for up to 10 gallon batches. As alluded to above, if you want it to be 'pretty' go with stainless. If you are just looking for an economical way to brew the same beer, go with the aluminum.

Read up on cleaning though as you can't use the same stuff that you would use on SS.

Yeah you cant use oxiclean or anything like that, right? I would normally just be using a sponge and dishsoap anyways

Correct, but even a rough scrubby type sponge could remove the oxidation layer. I just use a little bit of dish soap and a clean rag. The aluminum pots are just fine.

Sweet... 2 60 quart aluminum pots might be in my future then... Along with two of these - http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=44_35_46&product_id=91

2 60 QT Aluminum Pots w/w Shipping - 155.78
2 Weldless bulkhead kits w/ Shipping - 73.00
$228.78 for 15 gallon HLT and 15 gallon BK

Still doing some research, but I'm glad to find out that there are options beyond keggles or $$$ boilermakers.

You are going to need a Step Drill Bit.

You could go with a 50 qt for your HLT if you wanted.

Yeah I saw this - http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=44_35&product_id=99

Seems like a reasonable price

Yeah that is a good price and I think 7/8" is what you need for those weldless fittings.

Jeebas said:

Yeah I saw this - http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=44_35&product_id=99

Seems like a reasonable price

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That is convenient however if you want to save a few bucks you may want to try Harbor Freight Tools (if you have one close), they have pretty cheap thermometers too!

So after looking around for the last few days (and reading every post in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/) I think for the brew stand I am gonna go with something pseudo-temporary. Ideally I'd love to have a single or double tier with the use of some pumps and I'd love to try to make a stand but I really don't have the $ for the supplies or the time to put into something that I won't want to upgrade in a year. In other words, I'd rather crawl before I walk.

Looking at what was done here - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/walmart-3-tier-brewstand-under-100-a-169893/index3.html#post1965734 - with this - http://www.lowes.com/pd_101933-1281-CR4824_0_?productId=1000527&Ntt=shelving&Ntk=i_pro ducts&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=shelving

I am thinking that with the Bayou burner (I posted earlier in the thread) I could use one for heating both the HLT and BK. Like this -

1 - heat mash water in HLT
2 - transfer mash water to MLT - 60 minutes
3 - first runnings into BK
4 - heat sparge water in HLT
5 - second runnings into BK
6 - (Carefully) Move burner to level 1


6 - Start boil
7 - Use IC to get to pitching temp
8 - Move BK to level 2, Primary Fermenter to level 1


9 - Transfer wort to primary

Though, now that I look at this, couldn't I just do all this with only two levels? Like this -



Maybe building something out of wood like this - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/index64.html#post1774551 - or piecing together something like this - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/index79.html#post2000097

Even with the burner on its own stand own top of wood, I would still need to put something underneath of it to prevent it burning the whole thing down, right? What kind of materials work for that.

sorry for the poorly written ascii diagrams

I went pretty budget on my AG setup, but it's been serving me well so far.

I used this cooler:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?CategoryID=8560&product_id=3000000732

And I made a steel braid using this tutorial:


The only downside of that cooler is, the spigot points down and with the longer fitting it hits the ground. I sit it up on some bricks (ok, some old speakers) to keep it from hitting the ground.

I use this as my boil kettle and to heat water:
http://morebeer.com/view_product/84...ew_Kettle_-_With_Ball_Valve_32_Quart_8_Gallon

I added on a thermometer as well for convenience

I use the Bayou Classic burner above to heat it....I have a gas stove, but it could never keep a rolling boil with 5G, and it also added over an hour to the cook time.

My basic process is this:

- Set up Bayou Classic on the back porch. Toss on brew pot and fill with correct amount of water (I got a filter I can hook to my hose water, I don't use the sink for anything anymore since I moved out of the kitchen)
- Heat water up to temp, move pot up to counter (repurposed old "bookshelf" entertainment center) and use a transfer tube to start draining the water into the cooler w/ grain. If it's a small enough amount of water, I just dump it, but usually it's too heavy for me to risk it.
- Put the cooler back on the bayou classic and wait....
- After an hour or so, I move the cooler up onto the counter, and drain into a bucket
- Heat up sparge water, while this is happening move the grain back down to ground level
- Put sparge water on cabinet, drain through transfer tube....pot goes back to the burner
- drain rest of sparge water into the bucket until I have the right amount
- haul that bucket over to the pot and dump it in

It's a bit ghetto rigged and resource intensive, but it got me into AG for minimal extra $$. It would just be too much to get a full on 3 tier system, as awesome as that would be. Plus my situation wouldn't allow me to easily move between inside and outside, and I don't particularly want to use that burner inside my back room.