Beer Tools Pro vs. Beer Alchemy

I'm currently testing both of these, but it's a lot to compare between the two, especially for someone fairly new to AG. So I ask, what do you find are the pros/cons of each?

It seems like they each have some weak spots. e.g Does BTP incorporate trub loss into calculations? Does BA give you additional infusion temperatures based on volume added, or just volume to add of boiling water? Do they adjust FG according to mashing schedule? I'm more interested in features that help with ease and precision on brewday, although the inventory stuff seems nice as well.

Or, are they both inadequate and I should get something else(promash/beersmith?), which I'd prefer not to deal with running on a mac.

I use and like both.

I have a hard time getting my mash schedule set up in both of them. I use the famous NMODBS method.

I just got BA, but I like it better right now, but then again I just got my iMac, so I love everything Mac these days.

I will say that BA is a bit quarky because it was developed by a Brit, IIRC.

Let me know any neat tips for BA/ BTP that you come up with.

Tim

Well I too have been grappling with the same problem, which program to use. I have used them both and I am nearing the end of my trials. Here is what I have come up with, I will start with Beer Alchemy:

Pro's:

Ease of use. It is pretty simple to add a recipe and add ingredients. I really like the lay out and the ease of adding ingredients. I also like the batch options, Extract, Steeping, PM, and AG. The mash setup is nice as well. Straight forward on how your are mashing, double decoct, single infusion, etc... Also being able to set your AA % when you add the hop is a big plus.

The amount of items (weights, liquids) that you can customize.

Con's:

The built in recipe db is lacking. Just the base ingredients that you would come across.

Ok now on to Beer Tools Pro:

Pro's:

The ingredient recipe is extensive and well formed. Not only does it list a lot of your ingredients, it lists them as duplicates depending on the manufacturer. Also the way that it displays all ingredients for a batch in one place.

Con's:

Ease of use. Defining mash and sparge techniques requires some more advanced knowledge in what you are doing. Adding custom ingredients can also ask you for a lot information that you don't have.

Having to add an ingredient, such as a hop in order to adjust the AA%.

So there you have it, I would also like to add a quirky little item that I came across. I am not to sure how the two programs calculate SRM and IBU's. As an example for a recipe that I designed and then plugged into both softwares was for an American Amber:

BA SRM: 9.8, BTP SRM: 13.3
BA IBU: 23.3, BTP IBU: 32.1

I have a feeling that the SRM has to do with in BTP you can choose manufacturer of the malts and in my case extracts (I do partial mashes). I am sure they have the SRM pretty dialed in.

As for the IBU's I have no idea what is going on. I did notice that if you create a batch of your recipe in BA the IBU's change and in the case of the Amber the "batch" IBU's are more in line with BTP, in this case 32.4 which is in line with BTP.

I may email the creator of BA and ask why there is such a huge difference in IBU's between "recipe" and "batch".

I just downloaded beer alchemy recently and used it for the first time this past weekend. so I don't know too much about it yet, however while I was playing around with it I found that in the preferences you can pick between 3-4 methods of calculating the SRM and IBU.

I didn't bother with the SRM calculations (making an imperial stout, so I know it is black, I don't really care if it is 35 SRM or 45) however while I was playing with the IBU calculations, it varied from 70-100 depending on the method used to calculate.

For now I am still not sold on the program, the trial allows you to open it ~7 times so I am just going to leave it open and use it as long as possible before actually deciding to buy it

The way I read it I thought it was 7 times or 30 days, meaning that it works for 30 days regardless, however if you open it 6 times in 45 days you still have one more go at it. You think being in IT I would have this straightened out, but what do I know, I just take the computers apart. Silly programmers

Ass for the IBU's, when I played it with it I could not get the number to change no matter how many times I changed it. Maybe I will play with it again.

Which brings me to my next question, what is the most popular formula for calculating IBU's? Tinseth, Daniels, Rager, or Garetz?

I *love* Beer Alchemy and have been using it for a couple of years now. The recipe formulator is easy; the brew day feature is great (the 'instructions' do all the math and lay it out for you in the order you need it).

But, as noted above, the SRM calculations are way off. So when I'm brewing for a comp, I check it in BTP.

I also use BTP for its extensive (exhaustive?) ingredients database for when I have to add something to the BA database (to give the properties/data)

One good feature of BA is the ability to manage multiple stores of the same hop variety with different alpha acid percentages. And when you go to brew, it will calculate how much of each you need.

Still, I asked the developer about adding a capability to compose recipes in AAUs. His response was that due to the above feature, that would be unnecessary. I disagree, but, oh, well.

Do you know if there's any way to export all of BTP's ingredient database so that it can be imported into BA? That's my main quibble with BA: the lack of a complete inventory.

AFAJ Brew Guy said:

Which brings me to my next question, what is the most popular formula for calculating IBU's? Tinseth, Daniels, Rager, or Garetz?

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I've been going through Brewing Classic Styles and in there they use rager. I think the important thing is to pick one & stick with it so you'll know what those figures will translate to in your finished beer.

MX1 said:

I just got BA, but I like it better right now, but then again I just got my iMac, so I love everything Mac these days.

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Just an FYI BTP has a MAC version also. I use the PC and Mac versions. Love my new mac too!

yeager1977 said:

Just an FYI BTP has a MAC version also. I use the PC and Mac versions. Love my new mac too!

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Dont, wnat to pay again for the Mac port of BTP. I can just bring the laptop up and use it if i need too

Tim

I think they'd give you a new license key for your MAC for free.

You guys do know that I have three BTP tutorials right? YouTube - BobbyFromNJ's Channel

Does BTP account for trub loss? Do you mean in the kettle or in the fermenter? I assume you also mean whether it adjusts based on your actual ingredient load like "does it increase your preboil volume requirements if you've got an 9oz leaf hop schedule?". No no, it doesn't do any of that. You have to be a little more forward thinking and increase you finished batch size by a quart if that's your situation. Does any software do this?

Bobby_M said:

I think they'd give you a new license key for your MAC for free.

You guys do know that I have three BTP tutorials right? YouTube - BobbyFromNJ's Channel

Does BTP account for trub loss? Do you mean in the kettle or in the fermenter? I assume you also mean whether it adjusts based on your actual ingredient load like "does it increase your preboil volume requirements if you've got an 9oz leaf hop schedule?". No no, it doesn't do any of that. You have to be a little more forward thinking and increase you finished batch size by a quart if that's your situation. Does any software do this?

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yep, watched them all a few times.

For the most part, you are where I start all of my quest for brewing enlightenment.

/kneels to the master/

Tim

Ok now you're getting a little ridiculous.

One of the issues w/ BeerAlchemy of the lack of a recipe DB may be resolved soon, I too have seen that issue. I sent a help request to him. I have a huge list of over 200 recipes I got from www.brewmonkey.com and I'm wanting to import them but a lot of the ingreds don't seem to have equivalents, so I wanted to find out how we can add them. I personally don't know the ingredients enough to do the conversions for all cases, so I'm waiting for a reply. Other than that I'm loving BeerAlchemy

Any word from the BeerAlchemy guy?

Here is the issue with the IBUs in BA:

They are calculated to the final "volume of finished beer" (or "volume at pitching" I can't remeber) so if you are finishing with less volume (as I do) then you have more IBUs....the same iso-alphas in a smaller volume. Really the volume to calclate the IBUs should be "volume at end boil" for full boils or "volume after dilution" for partial. I think this might be the issue with the color too. If you set pre-boil volume and the correct post boil volume and then set all the other volumes the same as the post boil volume, the IBUs are correct.

The BA guys knows of the issue, and I hope it is resolved soon.

Any word on whether the ingredients list is going to grow any time soon? I'm just starting out in brewing, but even to me, the lists look short compared to BTP. I just like BA's interface so much more...

Also, does anyone know how I'd go about adding something like a hard cider (specifically, the recipe for Brendan's Groff) to either app? This would be a good test IMHO, and would quickly separate the two depending on how flexible they were for this recipe.

What ingredients are you looking for BA to have? I do not think I have come across something I wanted to use that was not there.

Beerrific said:

What ingredients are you looking for BA to have? I do not think I have come across something I wanted to use that was not there.

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Actually, I've been beating the heck out of both apps, and I'm seeing less to complain about with BA. I think my main problem was not completely understanding the import feature, when importing .rec files.

One recipe I found had German Munich LME, but I can't find which extract would be the equivalent in BA. In BTP, I found Munich Liquid from Alexanders. Little things like that. The lack of items seems to be mainly in the depth of Extracts more than any other category.

Edit: grammar

torque2k said:

Any word on whether the ingredients list is going to grow any time soon? I'm just starting out in brewing, but even to me, the lists look short compared to BTP. I just like BA's interface so much more...

Also, does anyone know how I'd go about adding something like a hard cider (specifically, the recipe for Brendan's Groff) to either app? This would be a good test IMHO, and would quickly separate the two depending on how flexible they were for this recipe.

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You can add your own ingredients; I added MO when I didn't see it included in BA. For graff, I'm assuming you'd just add apple juice (or whatever) as an ingredient, but you'd need to know the fermentability of it (for the MO I just copied British pale malt and changed the SRM)

Hmm. I haven't much of a clue as to how to figure that out.

I found this info:
Apple juice, canned or bottled, unsweetened, without added ascorbic acid -- 10.90g per 100 grams of juice

So, if my math is correct, that's 10.9% sugar content. How much of that sugar would be considered fermentable?

I think I may post this question to one of the other areas of the site here, see if I can get a close approximation.

Can you find apple juice in BTP or BS?

If so just use the data from those programs to add it to BA, that is what I do.
I have also been using Brewtarget, a freeware app by one of the guys on here, it works pretty good, it is a little glitchy by really not that bad at all.

Between he both of them, I can usually find everything I need, then I just add the missing stuff to the programs.

What I really need to do is figure out how to set up my equipment, Thermal mass and all the "science" crap really beats me down.....

Tim

after reading this I feel like I am still just as torn on which one to get...

If it helps any BTP has zero support. None, nada, zip.

Every time I install it on my mac it will run from the disk image. But if I close it and try to run it from the applications folder I get a "Master Database Missing" error.

There is probably some quirk with this software that would be an easy fix. But since they won't respond to my emails, I don't know what else to try.

There are several other complaints I have with the software that I won't go into now. There are things that my $6.99 iphone brewing app will do that BTP won't. Haven't tried BTA though.

I wish I could get my money back for BTP.

I have no idea why they won't respond on your major problem but I'm curious what functionality you really want out of it that it's not doing since I'm a happy user.

I'm playing with Beer Alchemy now that I'm a few batches in. My hope is to combine a recipe / inventory tool with a spreadsheet to track basic info about my fermentation (such as daily swamp cooler temps or SG readings). My brother is working through a few PC alternatives.

In general, I find the UI in most Mac programs superior to a PC version. The screenshots of ProMash and Beersmith appear to bear this out, however this is a subjective, personal judgment. Now, I have to decide if I want to spend the $40 on software rather than struggle through the free alternatives (BrewTarget?).

Regarding Beer Alchemy, I'm wondering if others are comfortable dialing in the specifics of batches. And, possibly because I'm doing Mini-Mashes now, the "mash editor" and related fields are acting wonky. Again, because I'm brewing recipe kits, I can't really try the shopping / inventory management, although it seems like a smart feature. Has anyone been able to enter Apfelwein properly as a recipe?

Last Question: Is there any information about professional brewers' record keeping processes? I can't find anything useful here or through Google.

I had a few problems with BTP, they responded to my issues in a timely manner and included a fix in the next upgrade. If you log into the website and post a support issue I am pretty sure they will respond. http://support.beertools.com/

73Drvr said:

If it helps any BTP has zero support. None, nada, zip.

Every time I install it on my mac it will run from the disk image. But if I close it and try to run it from the applications folder I get a "Master Database Missing" error.

There is probably some quirk with this software that would be an easy fix. But since they won't respond to my emails, I don't know what else to try.

There are several other complaints I have with the software that I won't go into now. There are things that my $6.99 iphone brewing app will do that BTP won't. Haven't tried BTA though.

I wish I could get my money back for BTP.

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I haven't needed their support, but the readme file when you install it explains why that error would occur. With BTP you need to copy the BTP Folder over, not just the app. Otherwise it doesn't work.

Main thing I want in the software I end up with is a good tool for calculating mash temps. It needs to be something I can tweak to reflect the parameters of my equipment and hopefully nail the strike temp. I've had good luck doing this with ProMash but some of it's other attributes leave me wanting so I'm still searching. Admittedly my limited learning curve on BTP and BeerSmith may have something to do with this.

So I plan on taking a look at BA.

Any comments on it's capability in calculating mash temps?

I use Beer Alchemy and I hit my temp 90% of the time. There is a box for grain temp on the batch editor screen. And if you change that value you will notice the change in the strike water temp on the instructions screen. If needed I can provide a screenshot after work.

After playing with the big three I've decided to purchase my trial version of BTP.

I typically install my brewing software on my home computer but frequently use it from my office computer.

Can a single purchase of BTP be installed on two computers?

Yes it can. I have it installed on three computers actually.

Bobby_M said:

Yes it can. I have it installed on three computers actually.

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Thanks Bobby. You're the Man!

Your videos made a big difference in me trying BTP initially. After some time on the system it does appear to satisfy my interest more than the others.

I just got Beer alchemy and like it. It has some shortcomings but over all it seems to work just fine. I am doing extract partial boil batches and it does not have a way to deal iwth late malt extract additions. Just beginning of boil and end of boil. Pretty minor.

I do like that it has several export options. I export recipes in pdf format and can sent then anywhere I want. You can even synch it with your iPhone or iPad. Seems like a nice feature.

Not knowing anything about Beer Alchemy, I will say that the one thing BTP has going for it without question is that it's dual platform. I know it's rare for a MAC guy to ever entertain going to a PC, but it would sure suck to have to relearn a whole new software package. It's not as bad in the other direction because you can emulate a PC on a MAC. Rambling...

Bobby,

Once you go Mac, you never go back, or is that something else.
I am a dual system guy, Mac and PC, but TBH, I would rather just carry my whole iMac to the brew location, then to open the Dell Laptop.

Tim

As a lifer on the Mac I went w/ BA. I do get frustrated w/ not being able to adjust the AA% in a batch & would love to know my thermal mass, but I have 2 little kids and don't have the time to calculate for my 5 gal rubbermaid. I want to start using the inventory manager as I have recently made the switch to AG and would like to buy in bulk. When BA doesn't have an ingredient I just look it up on the wiki and plug it in! I did find it odd that Maris Otter wasn't on there.

Imo, the customer service is rude. At least they gave me my money back.

Hmmm - I had a personalized response within 12 hours to my inquiry.

I don't think it's fair to make a short blanket statement about a company's service without explaining the situation in more detail. I mean, you can do what you want but I don't take that sort of "review" seriously.