Mashing in a Keggle question

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npauley88

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Can I mash 5.5 gallon batches (fly sparging) in a converted keg with false bottom without any negative effects on my efficiency?

My initial thought is yes, but I just want some of your guys' input who have done this before.

Thanks!
:mug:


edit: by 5.5 gallon batches, I mean batches of a ~1.060 pale ale, brown ale, etc...
 
Yes. Search the forums, its common to convert kegs to mash tuns.
 
I dont see why not, people do it with 10g batches. I never did the keg mlt thing because I've always been concerned with insulating it. I dont have a false bottom, otherwise I just figured I'd recirculate and stir if I ever needed to apply direct heat to keep the mash temp up.
 
While it could likely be done, grain bed depth might be an issue? Also temp loss during the rest might also be an isuue unless well insulated or heat is applied / infused.
 
Yes you can mash the grain bill for a 5 gallon batch no problem. As mentioned above, you will need to come up with a way to maintain the grain bed temperature using insulation or a heat source of some kind. The smaller batch size should not be an issue nor should the shallower grain bed depth. Using a full width FB, the grain bed depth above the FB should be about 5 inches which IMO is plenty enough depth. I often help brew 6 gallon batches on my friends system using a converted keg MT and it works just fine.
 
While it could likely be done, grain bed depth might be an issue? Also temp loss during the rest might also be an isuue unless well insulated or heat is applied / infused.

Didn't think of that grain bed issue.

would it be possible to add rice hulls to every batch to sort of "fluff up" the amount of grains in the tun?


would there be any negative aspects of this?
 
Didn't think of that grain bed issue.

would it be possible to add rice hulls to every batch to sort of "fluff up" the amount of grains in the tun?


would there be any negative aspects of this?

No need to add volume, you should be fine with a 5 gallon grain bill.
Maintaining temp will be a bigger concern. Wrapping it in a sleeping bag or something will help. You should also pre-heat the keggle.
 
Learning your system, and how to compensate and adjust is the best advice i can think of

I understand, I haven't built the keg MLT yet and probably won't be brewing with it for a month or so, so I'm just trying to learn as much about it from people who have been through it before I get going


ya know... learn from other peoples mistakes :p
 
No need to add volume, you should be fine with a 5 gallon grain bill.
Maintaining temp will be a bigger concern. Wrapping it in a sleeping bag or something will help. You should also pre-heat the keggle.

I plan on wrapping it in Reflectix from home depot, I always have pre heated my mash tuns so I'm used to that and it will be direct fired by a KAB6


soo... sounds like I'll be okay!

Thanks guys
 
My keggle MLT is wrapped in 3 layers of reflectix, and while I now re-circ through a HERMS, I used it without the HEX for the first couple batches and it held temps just fine for both a 5 and 10 gal batch. I should note that I did pre-heat and also made an insulated lid for it.
 
I plan on wrapping it in Reflectix from home depot, I always have pre heated my mash tuns so I'm used to that and it will be direct fired by a KAB6

soo... sounds like I'll be okay!

Thanks guys

I'm not sure how well the Reflectix will hold up to direct firing.

Good luck

Ed
 
There is no problem doing smaller batches is a converted keg, the only drawback is if you have a bimetal thermometer attached and it isn't low enough you will have to use a digital thermometer with a probe. As long as it is insulated and covered you shouldn't lose heat.

If you plan on direct firing with the grain in the tun you have to recirculate and you have to use a false bottom. Even with doing that you are taking a chance of scorching the grains.
 
I think you wont have any problems. The stainless and grains hold heat pretty well, yea insulation will help but you'll be ok anyway. Technically speaking a shallow grain bed is most ideal for brewing. I wonder why you would only want 5 gal when you have a keggle system though, i always brew to capacity.
 
I'm not sure how well the Reflectix will hold up to direct firing.

Good luck

Ed


It won't, mine all melted off at the lowest possible burner setting. I now just preheat the keggle and hit it with a few seconds of heat when the temp starts to fall. I've been able to maintain mash temp +/-2F by being somewhat attentive and keeping a lid on the MLT keggle. It's super easy to step mash and mashout.

I do 5 gallon batches in a keggle, most of my beers are pretty low gravity too. I've had no problems with small grain bills and efficiency, but I'm using a sort of Brutus 20 set up so I'm mashing pretty thin. I've also taken to malt conditioning which has been discussed here on this forum. That really has made for a great grain bed for lautering.
 
I have reflectix on my mash tun, done two mashes now and no problem with direct firing here. I cut it to go a few inches above the bottom and just above the holes on the lower collar. I then wraped the bottom with foil tape.
 
I have reflectix on my mash tun, done two mashes now and no problem with direct firing here. I cut it to go a few inches above the bottom and just above the holes on the lower collar. I then wraped the bottom with foil tape.


That describes mine exactly, but it still went up in fumes.
 
Well good luck over here so far. <fingers crossed>

I think im going to be ok because i'm keeping the heat from rolling up the sides of the mash tun. The heat from a hot mash tun hasn't beaten up the reflectix yet, but i imagine the heat from a flame might. That reflectix seems just like bubble wrap layered in foil.

I have tried to keep the heat localized under my keggle but i still feel like i need to do something because my thermometer on the front of my keg is reading high about 4 degrees F.

S3010180.JPG


S3010181.JPG


edit: i know the foil stuffed around the burner/keggle is ghetto, but hey at least the beer is good.
 
I wouldnt worry about the grainbed depth issue. Like said above you just have to learn to work with your system. Yor efficiency will be affected by a number of things , not just the grainbed depth. The size and quantity of the holes in your FB, the drain diameter, the milling of your grain, the grist/water ratio and the rates of flow in from the lauter tun and out of the MT are all some ways to influence your mash efficiency.

I have done 10 gallon batches with grain bills approaching 25 gallons and hit upwards of 90% efficiency, so it all depends on how you work with your system. Hope this helps.
 
I have a keggle MLT that it not direct fired and I have made 5 gallon batches without a problem. I used 1/2" EVA foam as insulation, wrapping around the side and bottom (and for now held on with duct tape!). It holds about 2 degrees in a 60 minute mash, measured with a lab thermometer, which is as good as my old insulated igloo MLT. Eventually I plan on upgrading to a RIMS system for "perfect" temperature control or changing temps - but that is a lot of overtime from now! :p
This isn't a great picture, but you'll get the idea.

IMG00049-20110328-1909.jpg
 
I mash in a keggle every brew day, 5 to 10 gallon. No issues, I've had grain bills as small as 7lb. Efficiencies from 75 to 80.
 
Maybe it's my false bottom, but I couldn't get enough liquid in the MT with the false bottom in to do a 5 gallon mash. It barely came above the false bottom and certainly wasn't enough tot soak the grain. I ended up making a copper "ring" manifold with really small holes drilled in the bottom to use for my smaller batches.
 
I'm about to make an MT insulation jacket from a carbon fiber welding mat. This video is what convinced me to give the stuff a try:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332391_200332391

We shall soon find out.


Wow, I'm surprised no one commented on that video. (No connected to company in any way, yada, yada...). Yes, please report back on how that material works out as a MT jacket. In fact, if you could, please PM me when you post, as I may miss it on the forum.

I've been doing the cooler thing for years, and its worked out well. But I now have a new sculpture in process from Marcus / Brewer's Equipment. So I picked up a keg and had some cutting and welding done for a new MT. Gonna retire the ol' cooler! :D

Best,

-MMJ
 
Wow, I'm surprised no one commented on that video. (No connected to company in any way, yada, yada...). Yes, please report back on how that material works out as a MT jacket. In fact, if you could, please PM me when you post, as I may miss it on the forum.

Sure, I can both post and PM you after I try this out. I actually ordered the 4 ft X 6 ft Heavy Duty, 24 oz/sq yd version. I can cut it down the middle and make two jackets out of that single sheet. I am running a direct fired RIMS and I really don't have trouble ramping up or maintaining temperatures. I hope to shorten the ramp up times with the insulation, particularly during cold season brewing. I'm planning to use brass grommet style snaps to secure the jacket around the MT. The matt I bought was not cheap, but the smaller & thinner 3' X 4' size is only about $30. That's not too bad really.
 
Maybe it's my false bottom, but I couldn't get enough liquid in the MT with the false bottom in to do a 5 gallon mash. It barely came above the false bottom and certainly wasn't enough tot soak the grain. I ended up making a copper "ring" manifold with really small holes drilled in the bottom to use for my smaller batches.

If i'm understanding your problem correctly all you had to do to remedy that problem is add some extra water in the MT to compensate for the deadspace at the bottom. I need to use about 1-1/2 gals. to bring mine to the right height, but its no big deal.
 
If i'm understanding your problem correctly all you had to do to remedy that problem is add some extra water in the MT to compensate for the deadspace at the bottom. I need to use about 1-1/2 gals. to bring mine to the right height, but its no big deal.

I agree. Assuming that the FB is full width and is positioned near the bottom weld line and using say a 10 gallon grain bill for the 5 gallon batch, the total mash volume should be about 5 gallons. IIRC, there should be about a one gallon space below the false bottom which would leave 4 gallons above it. The grain bed depth above the FB should be about 5 inches. This is based on using 1.5 qts/lb water to grain ratio. One could easily go up to 2 qts/lb if necessary, but it shouldn't be IMO. Obviously, this all depends on the type of FB and how far from the bottom it is mounted.
 
Wow, I'm surprised no one commented on that video. (No connected to company in any way, yada, yada...). Yes, please report back on how that material works out as a MT jacket. In fact, if you could, please PM me when you post, as I may miss it on the forum.

I've been doing the cooler thing for years, and its worked out well. But I now have a new sculpture in process from Marcus / Brewer's Equipment. So I picked up a keg and had some cutting and welding done for a new MT. Gonna retire the ol' cooler! :D

Best,

-MMJ

Why is it black in the video and silver in the picture? It's a little pricy, but at 4 x 6, it can be folded over for double insulation or cut long ways to insulate two vessels. Not bad.
 
I agree. Assuming that the FB is full width and is positioned near the bottom weld line and using say a 10 gallon grain bill for the 5 gallon batch, the total mash volume should be about 5 gallons. IIRC, there should be about a one gallon space below the false bottom which would leave 4 gallons above it. The grain bed depth above the FB should be about 5 inches. This is based on using 1.5 qts/lb water to grain ratio. One could easily go up to 2 qts/lb if necessary, but it shouldn't be IMO. Obviously, this all depends on the type of FB and how far from the bottom it is mounted.

My 15" diameter FB only hides 7/8ths gallon under it. I have a feel his is mounted above the bulkhead.
 
Why is it black in the video and silver in the picture? It's a little pricy, but at 4 x 6, it can be folded over for double insulation or cut long ways to insulate two vessels. Not bad.

I was wondering about the black vs silver thing too and I have no idea why they show it like that. I bought the heavy duty 24 oz 4' X 6' version and plan to make two jackets by cutting it lengthwise as you mentioned. The price for the heavy duty Velvet Shield was $104.50 delivered. Yes, it is somewhat pricey, but if you look at it as $52 each it's not so bad. I may sell the extra jacket to a brew buddy if it works as well as I hope it will. Never thought about folding it over to double the thickness. I'll wait and see how thick it is before deciding on that.

I ordered it from these guys: http://www.mytarp.com/velvet-shield-hd-welding-blanket-24-oz.aspx
 
My 15" diameter FB only hides 7/8ths gallon under it. I have a feel his is mounted above the bulkhead.

That's got to be it. The one gallon under the FB may well be only 7/8ths. I probably just rounded it off to one gallon. It's been so long since I measured it I don't recall.
 
Velvet Shield update. The blanket arrived today. This is the 4ft X 6ft 24 oz heavy duty version. I would estimate that it's about 3/8" thick and has the consistency of a wool blanket. It's soft and very flexible. It's also fairly heavy at 4 lbs. I have not yet decided whether to cut it in half or not. I'm gonna do some testing later today when I make up some starter wort. I'm gonna try an infra-red remote thermometer on it to get a feel for the insulation capabilities. Looks promising so far.
 
Velvet Shield update. The blanket arrived today. This is the 4ft X 6ft 24 oz heavy duty version. I would estimate that it's about 3/8" thick and has the consistency of a wool blanket. It's soft and very flexible. It's also fairly heavy at 4 lbs. I have not yet decided whether to cut it in half or not. I'm gonna do some testing later today when I make up some starter wort. I'm gonna try an infra-red remote thermometer on it to get a feel for the insulation capabilities. Looks promising so far.


Thanks for the update, Catt 22. I am still interested and tracking this thread. One of the cool things about homebrewing is to see what the "other guy" is doing. Sometimes that's led the whole community down a different path; pretty cool. I've always thought there had to be a better mousetrap for this application. LOL.

That's what led me down the road to stainless cam locks, LOL. Thanks to the many folks that tried them, and then the You Tube stuff. You know who you are.

Best,

D
 
Thanks for the update, Catt 22. I am still interested and tracking this thread. One of the cool things about homebrewing is to see what the "other guy" is doing. Sometimes that's led the whole community down a different path; pretty cool. I've always thought there had to be a better mousetrap for this application. LOL.

That's what led me down the road to stainless cam locks, LOL. Thanks to the many folks that tried them, and then the You Tube stuff. You know who you are.

Best,

D

I should have some time tomorrow to start cutting up the blanket. I have the attack plan worked out. I made a template from brown wrapping paper in order to locate the slots for the kettle handles and ports. I think some heavy duty Velcro will work for fastening it around the kettle. I might have to rivet the Velcro to the blanket, but that shouldn't be too difficult. With a little luck, I might be able to give this thing a try on Sunday.
 
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