First Yeast Starter Issues

Ok, this question has been asked 1 million times but I've read many threads on this and am still not sure about the outcome.
Last night I tried my first yeast starter by boiling 2 cups of water and 1/2 cup of DME. I let it cool, added it to a sanatized growler and then added a vile of White Labs WLP800. I then added some more water to bring it up to 2Liters of volume. That was around 8pm last night. I shook it a few times before going to bed.
This morning there is no evidence of anything going on. The liquid is still cloudy, no krausen or yeast on the bottom of the bottle.
I was planning on brewing a pilsner this morning but am worried about the yeast. Did I mess up when I added the extra water??

Any suggestions??????

It's very common to not see signs of fermentation in the starter. If you swirl it, you should hear co2 come out of the solution. (Sounds like soda carbonation in a glass). Since you're in a growler, which I'm assuming is brown, it's hard to see the yeast settle on the bottom.

Yes, you should not have added water to the starter without sanitizing it first but that wouldn't stop your starter from working (unless the added water was so hot that it killed the yeast, or so cold that it made them dormant--not likely!). In the future, make sure you sanitize anything that yeast will touch. I doubt this would lead to an infection, but it is possible.

You can either step it up again and see if you get more noticeable signs to convince yourself it's good, or go ahead and pitch and check your brew. Worst case if you pitch and its dead, is that it won't ferment and you'll have to go buy more yeast.

DocScott, thanks for the input. The solution does fizz / foam when I swirl it but then nothing after the foam disapates. The growler is actually clear so I have good view of the bottom.
I'll probably just go ahead and use this yeast and see what happens.

Half a cup of DME in 2 cups of water is about the right proportions for a starter (actually it's a little bit strong). But you then topped it up to 2 liters. This is going to dilute the starter, and give it an OG of ~ 1.010. You're starving you yeasties and I doubt that they will reproduce to the extent that you want.

-a.

ajf said:

Half a cup of DME in 2 cups of water is about the right proportions for a starter (actually it's a little bit strong). But you then topped it up to 2 liters. This is going to dilute the starter, and give it an OG of ~ 1.010. You're starving you yeasties and I doubt that they will reproduce to the extent that you want.

-a.

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That's what I was thinking. You thinned it out way too much.

I'd crash/decant the current one and then add some freshly prepped starter wort. Since it sounds like a simple starter (no stir plate), you may need to plan on giving it more time.

Try using YeastCalc next you make a starter. It has a DME calculator that tells you how much water and DME to use for whatever size and gravity starter you are making.

Starters using the intermittent shaking method will take about three days to finish. Some brewers pitch their starters when they are at high krausen which can reduce the time by one day. I use YeastCalc for starter calculations and yeast information. http://yeastcalc.com/
Happy brewing.

ajf said:

Half a cup of DME in 2 cups of water is about the right proportions for a starter (actually it's a little bit strong). But you then topped it up to 2 liters. This is going to dilute the starter, and give it an OG of ~ 1.010. You're starving you yeasties and I doubt that they will reproduce to the extent that you want.

-a.

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+1. I didn't see the op added water to 2L total volume!

Thanks again for all the input. I went ahead and brewed the batch and used the starter as is. I'll see if anything happens in the next couple of days.

DocScott said:

+1. I didn't see the op added water to 2L total volume!

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This. Always use the exact volume of water when u boil. Topping off runs the risk of contaminating it as well, thats why u always wanna boil with what ur gonna need, maybe just a hair extra to account for boil off.

Ok, it's been 24 hours since I pitched the yeast and no signs of fermentation. I took a sample and the gravity is still the same as the original reading. Is it time for a trip to the Home Brew store??

One more quick note, I pitched when both the yeast and wort were around 70 degrees and went right into the cooler down to 54 degrees.

Kozwald said:

One more quick note, I pitched when both the yeast and wort were around 70 degrees and went right into the cooler down to 54 degrees.

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Too soon to panic yet. Could take up to 72 hours to start. Give it another couple days and if still nothing, go get more.

DocScott said:

Too soon to panic yet. Could take up to 72 hours to start. Give it another couple days and if still nothing, go get more.

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I disagree. Keep in mind this is a lager. He has wildly underpitched. Heck, even for an ale, it would've been grossly underpitched. For his lager, he has no chance of salvaging this brew.

The yeast will eventually go to work. The beer will ferment out. But they are going to be extremely stressed and the beer will have noticeable off-flavours.

Fair enough. Can't argue that point. The biggest issue is the extremely low pitch and lack of stepping up the starter. Not much to do now other than let it go

This was my first pilsner and first yeast starter and I'm a bit confused. I've made probably 10 differnt batches mainly wheats and a couple of ales and have always used 1 Wyeast Smack Pack for a 5 gallon batch. So are you saying that the pitch rates have always been too low and with the proper pitch rate the beer would have tasted different?
Also, the directions on the yeast tube say good for a 5 gallon batch. According to some of the yeast calcutlators I would need 4 viles, why the big difference??

Pitching one vial or smack pack is really underpitching for most ales, and all lagers at 5 gallon recipe. There are about 100 billion yeast cells per pack. This assumes 100% viability of the yeast. The yeast we get I'd usually a few weeks old at best and the viability is much less. Therefore if the 100 billion cells, each pack may only have, say about 70 billion good ones (could be even less).

According to yeast pitching rates, a 1.050 OG ale with 5 gallons would require 175 billion cells to pitch at the correct rate. So if you pitch one pack/vial without a starter, you're probably underpitching by 50% or more! If its a lager like yours, you'd need 350 billion cells, so you'd be under by about 80%!!

So yes, you've been underpitching. Yes, it still made decent beer. Once you start using proper pitch rates, your beer will ferment faster, better, cleaner, and more reproducibly. Check out mrmalty.com and read the article on yeast pitching rates and how to make starters. You'll learn the important stuff in a few minutes and will answer some of your questions in better detail.

Thanks again DocScott. That's why I love this website, so many fellow brewers willing to share their knowledge.