Extreme Beer in America – Circus Novelty or the New Normal?

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Extreme beers should exist, I love them, but you need some session beers as well.

I'm not necessarily pointing out the strength of beer, I think traditional german and english beers are fantastic and the Americanized versions of those beers do not do them justice. So, why do we insist on abandoning the old ways?
 
Ever raced cars?

I know I have and racing taught me how to drive even better on the road. It also taught me how far you can build an engine, suspension etc. to its very limits and still be reliable for its intended use.

This is why extreme beer making and recipes are valid extensions of the craft brew segment.
 
As with everything in life, change is inevitable and nothing is ever perfect/perfected. There will always be technological advances and forward progression because folks will try something different, and sometimes those differences turn out to make great things. 100yrs from now, how different/similar will the beer brewing process be?
 
I'm not necessarily pointing out the strength of beer, I think traditional german and english beers are fantastic and the Americanized versions of those beers do not do them justice.

That's an opinion, not a fact. Many people do not share the opinion. Drink what you like and like what you drink. I personally like American extreme styles as well as malty German and English beers.
 
I'm not necessarily pointing out the strength of beer, I think traditional german and english beers are fantastic and the Americanized versions of those beers do not do them justice. So, why do we insist on abandoning the old ways?

Well for a slew of reasons. For starters, the knowledge people have about beer. You can find American beers that are like traditional German Lagers or English Ales, they do exist, but there's also something about taking something and putting your own stamp on it. if everyone brewed the same lagers wouldn't it be boring?
 
Great write up! I have always had a hard time accepting the term 'extreme' in certain contexts. Brewing being one of them. Err, cooking in general. If I roast a chicken and then cover it in a crusty shell of black pepper and sugary donut dough, does that make it 'extreme chicken'? Same goes for brewing. Just because you use an obscene amount of hops or decide to incorporate lavender, rose pedal, ginger root, or whatever, does not make it 'extreme', it makes it interesting, it makes it creative, and I don't see the logical connection to 'extreme'. Let's save that tag for the professions that it applies to! :)
 
I am not objecting to American craft beer, or saying that anything should be done differently. I prefer traditional english and german beers, that is my personal taste. Anyone can brew whatever they want. I'm asking the question why American breweries are making these hop bombs, or flavoring beer with unusual ingredients? Is that the American taste, are American breweries trying to be different, trying to create their own styles, or just trying to out do each other?
 
I am not objecting to American craft beer, or saying that anything should be done differently. I prefer traditional english and german beers, that is my personal taste. Anyone can brew whatever they want. I'm asking the question why American breweries are making these hop bombs, or flavoring beer with unusual ingredients?

Because that's other people's personal tastes?
 
I am not objecting to American craft beer, or saying that anything should be done differently. I prefer traditional english and german beers, that is my personal taste. Anyone can brew whatever they want. I'm asking the question why American breweries are making these hop bombs, or flavoring beer with unusual ingredients? Is that the American taste, are American breweries trying to be different, trying to create their own styles, or just trying to out do each other?

Probably a bit of all of those things. But beers are always brewed to the taste of the brewer in reality. Dogfish makes big beers cause that's what Sam Calagione liked. Hugh Sisson brewed (or commissioned) Loose Cannon because he wanted a super hoppy beer that wasn't available in their area.
 
Many breweries in the 'old days' were constrained by weather, ingredients available, and the water source. Certain water profiles work well with certain styles, combined with what was available ingredient wise. With industrialization and global commerce, brewers have much more access to strange ingredients--and more of it than most old brewers ever had. With the availability of these new ingredients and water chemistry, creativity is able to thrive.
 
Well, I'd point to Mikkeller for doing weirder things than most American breweries. That weasel cat stout? I haven't tried it, but I don't think you can top cat $h!t coffee beer. Or their 1000 IBU beer. I'd also point to the whole high-ABV arms race that those couple Scottish breweries embraced. The point being, using strange ingredients isn't uniquely American. Nor is brewing something "extreme" in any regard.

That said, I too grow weary of this "how many hops can we cram in" or "how high of an ABV can we make" or "who can make the stoutiest stout" thing. They definitely have their place. But these are the beers that make headlines (at least within the beer world) and thus manufacture demand. There's multitudes of American brewers making great, balanced, drinkable beers.
 
I think a lot of it is because this is 'Murica and American's way of thinking. We are a boiling pot of cultures, so there isn't this strict adherence to traditions and such. We just don't have them. We invented the double down (KFCs chicken sandwich that uses chicken instead of bread), deep fried Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid pickles and Chinese food. Why? Because this is 'Murica and no one can tell us what a beer is any more than they can tell us what a chicken sandwich is.
 
Well, I'd point to Mikkeller for doing weirder things than most American breweries. That weasel cat stout? I haven't tried it, but I don't think you can top cat $h!t coffee beer. Or their 1000 IBU beer. I'd also point to the whole high-ABV arms race that those couple Scottish breweries embraced. The point being, using strange ingredients isn't uniquely American. Nor is brewing something "extreme" in any regard.

That said, I too grow weary of this "how many hops can we cram in" or "how high of an ABV can we make" or "who can make the stoutiest stout" thing. They definitely have their place. But these are the beers that make headlines (at least within the beer world) and thus manufacture demand. There's multitudes of American brewers making great, balanced, drinkable beers.

Thanks for your reply, I think you have it right. There are a lot of great beers out there, but bull testicle stout makes the headlines.
 
I think a lot of it is because this is 'Murica and American's way of thinking. We are a boiling pot of cultures, so there isn't this strict adherence to traditions and such. We just don't have them. We invented the double down (KFCs chicken sandwich that uses chicken instead of bread), deep fried Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid pickles and Chinese food. Why? Because this is 'Murica and no one can tell us what a beer is any more than they can tell us what a chicken sandwich is.

it's kind of unfortunate, but I think you might be right here. the media kind of make it necessary to be extreme or crazy to be noticed instead of being good.
 
Everyone wants to make their mark, be different, be the first, etc. I had an "extreme stout" 2 days ago, it. tasted like s$&t and I dumped the 7$ bottle down the sink. 3 years from now how many of those brews will still be brewed? A really competitive market is good for the craft industry, but brings flashes in the pan or should I say pot.
A client and I were talking, she loves the Irish Guinness on draught, the export not so much. To each his own.
 
American craft breweries make a tremendous amount of beer in traditional styles. Your objection is that they don't make only that?

^^This.

Why does anyone care that a small fraction of beers made by a small fraction of the brewing industry are "extreme"? How does this point to us ignoring our roots? That's ridiculous.
 
Everyone wants to make their mark, be different, be the first, etc. I had an "extreme stout" 2 days ago, it. tasted like s$&t and I dumped the 7$ bottle down the sink. 3 years from now how many of those brews will still be brewed? A really competitive market is good for the craft industry, but brings flashes in the pan or should I say pot.
A client and I were talking, she loves the Irish Guinness on draught, the export not so much. To each his own.

I'm all for brewers doing crazy things and experimenting with strange flavors. But you're right, a lot of them are flashes in the pan. There are certainly some beer geeks who keep going for the stuff, but there are many more beer geeks (myself included) who'll try something once out of curiousity, and then go back to something we can drink on a regular basis.

For example, I can't think of a single person who tried the Rogue Voodoo Doughnut Maple Bacon monstrosity and actually enjoyed it. It was awful. But I'll give it to them for trying.

It reminds me of a local restaurant run by an acclaimed chef. By restaurant I mean a bar with a small handful of seats. 30ish course meal, at a fortune prix fixe (~$200). But those 30ish courses are basically single bites of food, with the strangest possible concoctions ever. Some sort of candied solidified olive oil bon bon, some weird cotton candy sushi thing. That kind of stuff. My wife has been dying to go. Because according to reviews, the guy apparently pulls it off. By doing these crazy combinations, he's able to isolate very pure and distinct flavor combinations.

If you're going to do something crazy, it better work, at least.
 
If you think American craft breweries are the first to cram a multitude of spices, hops, herbs, etc into their beer that would be a major miscalculation. For example, many of theDogfishHead "extreme" beers are actually based off historical evidence dating from thousands of years ago.
 
If you think American craft breweries are the first to cram a multitude of spices, hops, herbs, etc into their beer that would be a major miscalculation. For example, many of theDogfishHead "extreme" beers are actually based off historical evidence dating from thousands of years ago.

Not to mention the Belgians who brewed up dubbels and triples. I mean if they stuck to their traditional table beer, we'd be all in a worse place.

I think that the best option is for people who like the session beers to have them, there's plenty of places that brew traditional beers, and yes some people prefer the big beers, I'm one of them but I'm also a fan of big flavored food as well. I'm a huge fan of spicy food and hoppy beer because they multiply off each other and go crazy.
 
I personally don't typically go for extreme beers, but I did try the Voodoo Doughnut Maple Bacon beer, but only because a friend gave it to me. It wasn't horrible, but it definitely wasn't what I would call good. A question I have for anyone questioning extreme beers is, what's it to you if a brewery brews an extreme beer? No one's forcing it down your throat. If you don't want it don't drink it, but don't try to discourage breweries from brewing them because of your own personal convictions. If there's a market for it, or even if there isn't, a brewery should be able to brew what it wants to brew.

Also, my favorite part of that article was:

Have we gotten to the point in the craft beer scene where anything fermented with malted barley sugars as the base can be called beer?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the definition of beer, no?
 
He pretty much pointed it out in the article - it's the American way of doing things. We are fueled by materialism and capitalism in this country which doesn't leave much room for ethics or tradition.

But....

There is a whole new generation that has grown up with a much different view of the world and access to cultures that your folks haven't - they will move beyond 'extreme' beers and hopefully start to throw down & create some more American traditions in beer like the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale-the best beer that hd come out of the US-and it's about a 5% beer loosely based on and English tradition.
 
I am a firm believer in the market. If super hoppy high abv beers sell and someone makes money off them then fine by me. That is why I brew my own beer because I can brew what I like instead of what others think I should like.

To each his own I guess
 
passedpawn said:
Commercial breweries make what people want to drink. They don't dictate the market; the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Craft beer is 5%, and these "extreme" beers are only a small percentage of that. Not a mainstream movement.

Competition breeds innovation. You rarely notice the short guy in a crowded room.
 
I drink and brew the occasional oddball/extreme beer - occasional.

My problem with some aspects of the extreme beer trend is that it can then become the new standard expectation for a style. I first observed this with wheat beers. It became an "arms race" to see who could make the most yeasty flavored hefeweissen. A person couldn't taste the wheat anymore in many of these. Lately it has been hoppy beers.

Then problem then is that if a beer is made according to the "old school" style people think it tastes thin and weak. Just look and the ratings/reviews on the web for a standard European lager. Some of these are quite fine, but because they don't bowl you over with a blast of flavors, they only get an OK rating. Oh and if it is under 7% ABV Fugetaboutit

Eventually this will run their course, but my concern is that it will forever impact what is judged to be a great beer. I find the beers that I really like the best are subtle and nuanced. I fear we may lose to many of these beers
 
I drink and brew the occasional oddball/extreme beer - occasional.

My problem with some aspects of the extreme beer trend is that it can then become the new standard expectation for a style. I first observed this with wheat beers. It became an "arms race" to see who could make the most yeasty flavored hefeweissen. A person couldn't taste the wheat anymore in many of these. Lately it has been hoppy beers.

Then problem then is that if a beer is made according to the "old school" style people think it tastes thin and weak. Just look and the ratings/reviews on the web for a standard European lager. Some of these are quite fine, but because they don't bowl you over with a blast of flavors, they only get an OK rating. Oh and if it is under 7% ABV Fugetaboutit

Eventually this will run their course, but my concern is that it will forever impact what is judged to be a great beer. I find the beers that I really like the best are subtle and nuanced. I fear we may lose to many of these beers

Thanks for your reply, I think you hit the nail on the head. I mix things up sometimes too, but I really love the traditional styles. It sometimes seems like these old styles require techniques that brewers don't want to bother with, so the style gets tweaked a little. Decoction mashes is the example that comes to mind.
 
I drink and brew the occasional oddball/extreme beer - occasional.

My problem with some aspects of the extreme beer trend is that it can then become the new standard expectation for a style. I first observed this with wheat beers. It became an "arms race" to see who could make the most yeasty flavored hefeweissen. A person couldn't taste the wheat anymore in many of these. Lately it has been hoppy beers.

Then problem then is that if a beer is made according to the "old school" style people think it tastes thin and weak. Just look and the ratings/reviews on the web for a standard European lager. Some of these are quite fine, but because they don't bowl you over with a blast of flavors, they only get an OK rating. Oh and if it is under 7% ABV Fugetaboutit

Eventually this will run their course, but my concern is that it will forever impact what is judged to be a great beer. I find the beers that I really like the best are subtle and nuanced. I fear we may lose to many of these beers

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "most yeasty hefeweizen" arms race... the traditional German ones are very yeasty.
 
I dont think extreme beers are overtaking "regular" beer at all. All of these breweries still have their main sellers. Rogue still makes dead guy right? Its not like these extreme beers will keep a brewery afloat. They do generate publicity though. Which hopefully means more sales for them.
 
A lot of commercial brewers are in that line of work because they didn't want to sit in a cubicle all day long, doing TPS reports and having to answer to 8 bosses. They wanted a job where they could be creative and freewheeling and experimental. There's certainly an element of marketing to a lot of these beers, but I don't know how many brewers get fired up about making another batch of Fat Tire or whatever pays the bills.
 
I dont think extreme beers are overtaking "regular" beer at all. All of these breweries still have their main sellers. Rogue still makes dead guy right? Its not like these extreme beers will keep a brewery afloat. They do generate publicity though. Which hopefully means more sales for them.

I love dead guy, I think it is a great beer. It is not an extreme beer, but it is an "americanized" adaptation of a traditional beer.
 
I love dead guy, I think it is a great beer. It is not an extreme beer, but it is an "americanized" adaptation of a traditional beer.

Thats what im saying, Rogue couldnt stay afloat on that maple voodoo stuff.

Its like one of the local breweries down here, they have their bread and butter, ie their porter and pilsner that they sell the most of, because they are normal beers that bars can serve. Then they have had some other out there beers.
 
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "most yeasty hefeweizen" arms race... the traditional German ones are very yeasty.

This is true for sure, but I have had way too many American wheats were the yeast flavors are over the top - in my opinion. Way over what one expects compared to the German versions
 
I'm not necessarily pointing out the strength of beer, I think traditional german and english beers are fantastic and the Americanized versions of those beers do not do them justice. So, why do we insist on abandoning the old ways?

I don't think it's so much abandoning the old ways, as much as experimenting for something different. Just like my mom asked me when I first started brewing, "Have you made Miller Lite yet?" And I replied, "Why would I make Miller Lite? It's been done and perfected and I could go buy it cheaper than making it." I think that's the way a lot of people look at the traditional styles. it's not bad, it's just already been perfected. The whole craft brew industry is based on trial and error. Even the traditional styles wouldn't exist if at one point someone said, "Why would you roast the malt like that? We've already got this perfect version of pale malt right here."
 
I love dead guy, I think it is a great beer. It is not an extreme beer, but it is an "americanized" adaptation of a traditional beer.

So? It still would pass Bavarian purity (as all it has is barley, yeast, water and hops) and even has some traditional hops (Saaz) and has the bock base Munich malt.

Why can we not enjoy "Americanized" (for cost or creativity) versions of these beers? Do you think every brewery in Germany uses the same ingredients when making their Maibocks?
 
Personally, I enjoy the creativity and extremism that comes out of some breweries. I don't like to drink the same old stuff all the time and some of those "traditional" beers are only drank as fallback beers to me. I mean, heck, the first beer I ever brewed was a coconut black ipa, and one of the ones I just bottled is a coconut pineapple pale ale. If everybody made the same thing, there would be no need for 1000+ breweries in the US, and we would still be drinking pale lagers.

Obviously everyone is different though.
 
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