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BrewDey

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So I've been enjoying extract brewing a lot, but I feel like I've gotten the hang of the general process pretty well and would eventually like to go AG for taste and a better cost per batch. I don't even fully understand the whole process of mashing/sparging, but I'm interested in the investment necessary in terms of equipment. About how much could I expect to spend to have all-grain equipment? Is it readily available? Equally important is the amount of time needed per batch-I love the fact that I can do a batch of extract brew after work (even after dinner), and still get to bed at a reasonable hour during the week. How much time does going AG add to the entire brewing process? Finally-and I know it's subjective-how much better is AG beer? Any help is much appreciated!
 
BrewDey said:
About how much could I expect to spend to have all-grain equipment?

How much do you want to spend? You can go with a cheap setup (turkey fryer: $30 + bucket-in-a-bucket lauter tun: $20) or you can go on up from there. Most people use a cooler converted into a mash/lauter tun with a spigot and SS braid or copper manifold. I'm guessing the total cost there is $40-50. Most people eventually want a larger boil kettle than the 30 qt pot that'll come with the turkey fryer (although it can work). For that you can go with a converted keg or some other big pot. Prices vary from $50 - $200+. You'll also need some kind of chiller if you don't already have one since you'll be doing full boils. You can buy a pre-built chiller for ~ $60 last time I checked.

Lots to choose from. My suggestion is to read as much as you can, check out other people's setups, choose what you want based on what you can spend and then go for it.

BrewDey said:
Equally important is the amount of time needed per batch-I love the fact that I can do a batch of extract brew after work (even after dinner), and still get to bed at a reasonable hour during the week. How much time does going AG add to the entire brewing process?

I can be done w/ an AG brew day and cleaned up in just less than 4 hours. Most people take more time, but if you get your process down, it can go pretty quick. It will take more time than extract/PM brews.

BrewDey said:
Finally-and I know it's subjective-how much better is AG beer? Any help is much appreciated!

This is very subjective. You can make good beer either way. AG gives you more control, and most people do it because they like it.
 
I am in the middle of making the switch and my cost for the switch is going to be around 150 this is including mash turn, propane tank, and wort cooler (man those things are expensive.) All i have left to get is the wort chiller, but im not sure what im going to do for it. I really hate spending 60 bucks on one, so im still looking around.
 
BrewDey said:
About how much could I expect to spend to have all-grain equipment?
Some people here have ghettorrific setups, and then there's BrewPastor. You can get a burner from Home Depot for $45 and pick up keg for anywhere from free to $300, depending on your thoughts on "borrowing". Or you could probably DIY one out of an old waterheater if you're apt.

BrewDey said:
Is it readily available?
Is what readily available? Ingredients? Depends on where you live. Have a local homebrew store that sells grains? If not, order some.

BrewDey said:
Equally important is the amount of time needed per batch-I love the fact that I can do a batch of extract brew after work (even after dinner), and still get to bed at a reasonable hour during the week. How much time does going AG add to the entire brewing process?
Takes a lot longer.

BrewDey said:
Finally-and I know it's subjective-how much better is AG beer? Any help is much appreciated!

If you and a friend both caught the same fish and cooked it the same way, who's would taste better?
 
I thik my total for AG was ROughly $90, i think thats probably the lower end, turkey fryer, cooler and IC. Took me four hours to do my first all grain with batch sparging.
 
Here are the real bottom lines that you can use to do your own calculations. This is based on a 5 gallon net batch.

1. A way to heat at least 3 gallons of water to about 180dF in a reasonable time (this is for your intial grain/water mix (mash) as well as doing it again for your sparge. You can keep reheating new batches of water as necessary to reach your target boil volume (or until you can't get anymore sugar out of the grain).
2. A container to mix grains and water in for the mash, preferably one that will hold heat (hence the common use of a cooler).
3. A way to strain the wort out of the grains.
4. A way to boil 6-7 gallons of wort down to about 5.5 gallons. Some buy bigger pots (7+ gallons) and run them on outdoor burners and some split it between two medium pots on the stovetop.
5. A way to cool it down in a reasonable time.

That's really it. You can do that in more elegant ways with more expensive equipment, but it's not really necessary.
 
Bobby_M said:
Here are the real bottom lines that you can use to do your own calculations. This is based on a 5 gallon net batch.

1. A way to heat at least 3 gallons of water to about 180dF in a reasonable time (this is for your intial grain/water mix (mash) as well as doing it again for your sparge. You can keep reheating new batches of water as necessary to reach your target boil volume (or until you can't get anymore sugar out of the grain).
Can be done on a stovetop.
2. A container to mix grains and water in for the mash, preferably one that will hold heat (hence the common use of a cooler).
Can be had for $15 at WalMart
3. A way to strain the wort out of the grains.
stainless steel braid. $10 to $20 depending on whether you want fancy things like ball valves or if you're going to control the flow with something like a clothes pin instead.
4. A way to boil 6-7 gallons of wort down to about 5.5 gallons. Some buy bigger pots (7+ gallons) and run them on outdoor burners and some split it between two medium pots on the stovetop.
You forgot a third option. I can boil 5.5 gallons. I keep the kettle topped off for 50 minutes, never adding so much that it hampers the boil. It's a bit of a PITA, but if you already have the kettle, it's an option.

5. A way to cool it down in a reasonable time.
Ice is pretty nearly free.

That's really it. You can do that in more elegant ways with more expensive equipment, but it's not really necessary.
Yup. Pretty much every one of the cheap ways I mentioned can be improved upon for less than $50. After you do an AG batch or two, you'll know which steps irritation you the most and then you'll know where to spend your money on upgrades....
 
BrewDey said:
So I've been enjoying extract brewing a lot, but I feel like I've gotten the hang of the general process pretty well and would eventually like to go AG for taste and a better cost per batch. I don't even fully understand the whole process of mashing/sparging, but I'm interested in the investment necessary in terms of equipment. About how much could I expect to spend to have all-grain equipment? Is it readily available? Equally important is the amount of time needed per batch-I love the fact that I can do a batch of extract brew after work (even after dinner), and still get to bed at a reasonable hour during the week. How much time does going AG add to the entire brewing process? Finally-and I know it's subjective-how much better is AG beer? Any help is much appreciated!

Most of the posters have already answered your Q's regarding equipment investment. You can get a SS false bottom that fits into a cylindrical picnic cooler, and a spigot that fits it, and you have a mash/lauter tun.

For me, the big jump in time was when I went from extract to partial-mash. Essentially, you add at least an hour and a half to your brew time. And that's assuming a hefty burner element that heats up your mash water quickly, and a simple single-infusion 60-minute mash, with quick sparging and draining and no hangups. In the real world, you're looking at roughly 2 hours more, plus the extra equipment to clean up at the end. You also need to realize (which I didn't when I started AG) that going all-grain means that, often, you start off with pre-boil wort volumes that need to be boiled down (evaporated) before you can even add your
boiling hops and start your boil timer. Otherwise you end up with post-boil volumes in excess of 6 gallons for a 5-gallon batch. In other words, in order to rinse enough of the sugar from the grains to get good efficiency, you need to sparge with alot of water, which leaves you with large pre-boil volumes.

My timing for 2 side-by-side batches is usually as follows: assuming I've measured out my grain ahead of time and I can start heating my mash water right away, I'm looking at 6 hours from first flame to squeaky-clean brewhouse and fully aerated and capped carboys. This past weekend, I started at 10am, and brewed one AG and one PM. I was cleaned up and breathing easily at 4pm. This is the life of AG. You can't really do an AG on the fly, like you can with extract, and still be in bed at a normal hour. I usually wake up before sunup on a weekend day, and finish by noon, so I can have the second half of my day for other stuff.

As for the taste/quality difference...so far, I noticed a bigger difference between extract and partial mash than between partial mash and AG. My best batches, IMHO, have been during my PM phase. I would suggest going PM before going AG. You get most of the control over your grain bill, without worrying so much about efficiency, etc. But when you go to PM from extract, you will notice a huge jump in quality. Extract, I think, has a distinct extract-y "fake" taste when used in large quantities.
 
Evan! said:
My best batches, IMHO, have been during my PM phase. I would suggest going PM before going AG. You get most of the control over your grain bill, without worrying so much about efficiency, etc. But when you go to PM from extract, you will notice a huge jump in quality. Extract, I think, has a distinct extract-y "fake" taste when used in large quantities.

I guess I don't consider myself an All Grain brewer. I have easy access to LME/DME at the LHBS, so I see no reason to shy away from using it. Yes, I have a cooler conversion MLT that's good for 20+ lbs of grain, but sometimes my efficiency is a little off or I need to adjust something here or there, so I throw in a little DME. The intent is to get the best possible beer and if I can throw in a pound of DME to get my OG where I want it, then I think I'd be foolish not too. Why wouldn't I? For the sake of losing the title of "All Grain Brewer"? That's absurd.

So then it's just a matter of degree. Do you add 6 lbs of DME and call yourself a Partial Masher? Or do you add a half a pound? If you add 6, most would say you're Partial Mashing. If you add one pound to cover up a surprisingly low efficiency, then I'd say you're All Grain (or Large Grain) brewing.

What I'm saying is that if you have a 4 lb bag of DME on the side, there's no reason to fret so much over your efficiency. It doesn't mean you include it as part of your recipe, you just use it to cover up any short-comings or mistakes.


Seems to me like that's a reasonable approach....
 
Ryanh1801 said:
I am in the middle of making the switch and my cost for the switch is going to be around 150 this is including mash turn, propane tank, and wort cooler (man those things are expensive.) All i have left to get is the wort chiller, but im not sure what im going to do for it. I really hate spending 60 bucks on one, so im still looking around.
Go to Lowes and in the plumbing department, look for flexible copper tubing. They sell it in prepackaged 30' lengths. Probably about $36.00.

I was afraid that that would not be enough but it turned out to work fine. Drops my wort from boiling to 75 degrees in about 15-20 minutes.

Couple of cheap hose clamps and some vynil hose with garden hose connectors and.....done.

Wort_Chiller.JPG
 
BierMuncher said:
Go to Lowes and in the plumbing department, look for flexible copper tubing. They sell it in prepackaged 30' lengths. Probably about $36.00.

I was afraid that that would not be enough but it turned out to work fine. Drops my wort from boiling to 75 degrees in about 15-20 minutes.

Couple of cheap hose clamps and some vynil hose with garden hose connectors and.....done.

View attachment 1455

that looks like a cat exploded:D

Just kidding...I made my own WC for much cheaper than if I had bought one and it works perfect. I have garden hose attachments on mine. I suggest making one out of 1/2" vs. 3/8" as the 1/2 stands up better to holding shape. It more expensive but it I can get m wort to pitching temps in under 10 minutes.

Dan


Dan
 
Toot said:
I guess I don't consider myself an All Grain brewer. I have easy access to LME/DME at the LHBS, so I see no reason to shy away from using it. Yes, I have a cooler conversion MLT that's good for 20+ lbs of grain, but sometimes my efficiency is a little off or I need to adjust something here or there, so I throw in a little DME. The intent is to get the best possible beer and if I can throw in a pound of DME to get my OG where I want it, then I think I'd be foolish not too. Why wouldn't I? For the sake of losing the title of "All Grain Brewer"? That's absurd.

So then it's just a matter of degree. Do you add 6 lbs of DME and call yourself a Partial Masher? Or do you add a half a pound? If you add 6, most would say you're Partial Mashing. If you add one pound to cover up a surprisingly low efficiency, then I'd say you're All Grain (or Large Grain) brewing.

What I'm saying is that if you have a 4 lb bag of DME on the side, there's no reason to fret so much over your efficiency. It doesn't mean you include it as part of your recipe, you just use it to cover up any short-comings or mistakes.


Seems to me like that's a reasonable approach....

No, that's a perfectly reasonable approach, in my opinion. I really don't care for titles anyhow. Call me an all-grain brewer or a partial masher or an extract whore or whatever. The bottom line is my brew quality. The stout that I sent to the NHC this year was, actually, my last extract/steeping batch that I did, and it was one of my best brews to date.

The only thing about extract is that it's so friggin' expensive...especially DME. I just placed an order for the Barley Crusher last week, and there's a 55 lb sack of Glen Eagles Maris Otter on a Fedex truck somewhere right now with my name on it. For the $60 all-told that I spent on that sack, I'll get, at the least, 5 mid-to-high-gravity brews.

On the other hand...I asked my friend if he had an DME laying around so I could use it for carbonating...so he comes over on Sunday and dumps a big box in my lap that had, among the old stale hops littering the box, about 15 1-lb bags of extralight DME. Giggity goo!
 
BierMuncher said:
Go to Lowes and in the plumbing department, look for flexible copper tubing. They sell it in prepackaged 30' lengths. Probably about $36.00.

I was afraid that that would not be enough but it turned out to work fine. Drops my wort from boiling to 75 degrees in about 15-20 minutes.

Couple of cheap hose clamps and some vynil hose with garden hose connectors and.....done.
Thanks for the info. I think thats what i will do.

BTW. You Belgian wit. is going to be my first all grain, Im pretty sure. :drunk:
 
Ebay is great for copper tubing. I've scored 100' for 1/2"OD for $93 shipped. Not that you need that much, but the deals are out there. 3/8" is still running around $2/ft at Lowes/Depot.

The cheapest way into AG that I can think of is using a large grain bag in either a cooler, pot, or bucket to do your mashing and sparging. If you think of using steeping grains, you're basically mashing anyway. Sure, the temperature is a little more a factor but if you mash in your pot, you can add heat when necessary. Pull the big grain bag out and transfer that to a bucket temporarily. Heat your sparge water to 170 and dunk your grain bag in to rinse more sugar and then remove it. You can make this easier with a 5 gallong round cooler because you can leave the grains in the cooler and drain out of the spigot.

I'm not sure I'd consider a chiller a luxury item when you're up at 5+ gallon volumes. Ice baths take a really long time at this point.

As mentioned, it's nice to have some DME on hand in case your efficiency is horrendous.
 

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