Low efficiency has me down

I've posted about this before, but haven't been able to nail down the problem yet. My first few AG batches had efficiencies in the 70s, now I am hovering around 55-65% at best. I've rechecked all my liquid measurements and even got new thermometers (including a thermapen). Here's my process for my last batch:

5lb US Pale Ale Mat
1.75lb Maris Otter
.5lb Caramel 60L

I heated 2.25 gallons of water to 174, added it to my MLT with the grain. Temp came out to 153. At the end of the hour it had gone down to 148. I'm using the home depot 10 gallon cooler btw.

Next I heated 5.5 gallons of sparge water to boiling, put it in the HLT. After collecting the first runnings I poured the water in and stirred it. Temp was 182, after 15 mins it was around 179. I know temps that high aren't the best for bitterness reasons but shouldn't be affecting efficiency.

After collecting all of the wort I took a measurement with the refractrometer, 6.8 or 1.027 after I converted it. Beer Alchemy said I should have 1.031, my old recipe from Austin Home Brew said 1.036. Software said I had an efficiency of 64%. That was actually the best I had done in about 8 batches.

Is there anything obvious I am missing here? My thermometers are accurate, I am measuring the volumes of water correctly as far as I can tell. When I have compared my refractometer to a hydrometer they look to be within .002 of each other.

Sounds like you're doing batch sparging. How many sparges did you do? Sounds like you only did one.

I have only done one the past 2-3 batches as I was trying to nail all the temps down (I think at one point my sparge water temp was ended up too low)

Oh yeah, and I am batch sparging, sorry.

Also, maybe these spreadsheets will help. First, go here and grab the "Efficiency Troubleshooting Spreadsheet". That will help you calculate your conversion efficiency. Then, go here and grab the "Batch Sparging Efficiency Spreadsheet". That will help you determine your lautering efficiency.

Getting those figures makes it a whole lot easier to determine what the problem is. The same page will also give you typical reasons why each of those efficiencies may be low.

guinsu said:

I have only done one the past 2-3 batches as I was trying to nail all the temps down (I think at one point my sparge water temp was ended up too low)

Oh yeah, and I am batch sparging, sorry.

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I've read that doing two batch sparges tends to work a whole lot better. I'd try that next batch. Just split your sparge water in twain.

Also, you will probably have to wait until next batch to use those spreadsheets. You'll have to grab more data than you've probably been measuring.

From my limited experience, but my efficiency rose to about 75-78% after changing to this method:

First off, I don't mash-out, because I think it's unnecessary. Secondly, I mash in at 1.25 qt/lb, and when its time to collect, I raise my sparging water to 180 F with the amount I need for my recipe. I then take a piece of heavy duty foil, fold it in half so that it will lie nicely on the top of the grain bed. I punch 50 some-odd holes in it, and place it on top of the grain bed. I then open the valve and vorlauf (i think that's what it is called) x2 or 3 until the runnings are clear. Then I set up my boiling kettle, and place the hose on the valve, and open the vavle again, but only half-way or so. I keep an extra pot and just keep adding water to the top of the grain bed so that the water level maintains about 2 or 3 inches above the top. I think this would be an example of modified fly sparging.

The foil just ensures that the grain bed isn't disturbed. The slow collecting of runnings helps to increase efficiency. This method does double duty for me because I am using a 10 gallon orange igloo cooler, and if I had to batch sparge 2-3 times, stir, and then wait for the runnings to clear, my filtering system at the bottom would run the risk of falling off and then I would be screwed!

The whole process still only takes around 20 minutes or so. Just make sure to watch the sparge water temp (keep around 180 F), and don't let the water get too low over the grain bed until it is the last amount of sparge water. That's it, and I have been getting 75% efficiency consistently x2-3 batches. Hope that helps!

mojotele said:

Also, you will probably have to wait until next batch to use those spreadsheets. You'll have to grab more data than you've probably been measuring.

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I've taken to measuring the gravity of the remaining wort left in the runnings at the bottom of the mash tun.

In the last case, I mashed 23# for 12.5 gallons and collected a quart or so after my boil and cool down. It measured out at 1.020. I had performed three batch sparges. I generally batch sparge twice if I am mashing less grain.

I never really gave it any deep thought, but I can totally see how it is obvious to measure lauter efficiency. My efficiency generally sits around 82.5-87.5%, for BeerToolsPro I generally assume 80% for simplicity, but my efficiency was lower than usual this time around. Then again, I don't usually mash 23# of grain either.... normally, I do bitters so 15# to 20#.

There is one thing you may be missing, and one thing you are doing wrong.
The thing you may be missing:
You mashed, and drained the first runnings. That will have a very high gravity, and will be sitting in the bottom of the kettle. Then you sparged, draining your runnings on top of the first.
Before you took your gravity reading did you stir the wort to mix the first and second runnings? If not, you would get a low reading, but your wort as a whole would have a higher gravity than what you read.
Now for the thing you are doing wrong.
You are sparging at about 180F. This is too hot. It won't affect efficiency, but could result in excess tannin extraction. You want to keep the sparge temp no hotter than 170F.

Oh, one other possibility. If your sparge temperature was really about 148, you may want to increase the mash time from 60 to 90 minutes. That makes a difference to my efficiency when I mash cool.

-a.

Thanks for all the great advice, I am going to do a simple pale ale this week just to get some better readings as I go.

I did not stir before getting the first reading, that could be throwing it off. My after boil gravity readings are low, so there is still some issue. As for the sparge, I had worried I had been sparging low before (below 170) so I overshot this time. I'll have it dialed in at 175 next time. I can also mash longer if I end up with a low temperature, I think I have that problem solved after taking more temp readings as I go.

I'm also going to double check the PH, my efficiency dropped rather abruptly in Feb and I am wondering if all the snow and salt the Philly water dept. had to deal with is messing with the water even over the long term.

Only one question I have, how does your beer taste? Don't get me wrong, the numbers help but the bottom line is the taste. Sure, you may use a bit more grain because of lower efficiency but it's the taste that really matters. IMHO.

HBHoss said:

Only one question I have, how does your beer taste? Don't get me wrong, the numbers help but the bottom line is the taste. Sure, you may use a bit more grain because of lower efficiency but it's the taste that really matters. IMHO.

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Quoted for truth.

Low efficiency isn't necessarily a bad thing. Inconsistent efficiency is a bad thing. But, if you're unhappy with your efficiency regardless, my first step would still be to use Kaiser's spreadsheets to troubleshoot your efficiency. It is always best to know where the problem lies before blindly trying to solve it.

True, the final measure is in the taste and so far I haven't had any big problems there (except a dubbel that I am very unhappy with). However the inconsistency is bugging me especially since I am striving for consistency and reproducibility.

I tried using the spreadsheets however I didn't understand all the instructions and I noticed I got very different numbers using the efficiency spreadsheet versus the batch sparge efficiency one. Maybe someone could step me through it?

I made a pale ale with 8lbs of 2-row and 1lb of 60L crystal. I added 2.8 gallons of water (1.25qt/lb) and mashed at 153 degrees for an hour. First running was 1.5gal and 1.067SG. Using the chart on the troubleshooting page I get a 70% efficiency. The batch sparge spreadsheet comes up with 72%, close enough. The other one....well if I put the number in the mash section I get 138% which obviously is wrong. If I put them in the kettle section I get 70% which seems right, but then I don't know what goes in the mash section.

I then added 5 gallons of sparge water and after letting it sit for 15 minutes got a gravity of 1.017. I then added 1qt/lb of water to the tun and measured the gravity of the water run off. I got 1.006.

Final pre-boil gravity was 1.030. Expected was 1.040, efficiency was 56%. Not sure if I am plugging the number in correctly to determine where my problem is yet.

Guinsu,

Thought I would share a story that might make you smile about my brew experience this weekend. I made such a stupid error It is almost embarassing to admit.

I brewed a batch using UNmilled grain. When my original gravity was .018 instead of an anticipated .054 it was hard, but I RDWHAHB'ed.

I was sooooo not paying attention (too busy watching Butler beat Mich ST) when I mashed in (or when I failed to order miiled grain). Oh well, I'll never make that mistake again.

Cant offer you any suggestions as you already know far more than I. I have only brewed 15 or so all grain batches, and (very luckily) have never been more than .002 off SG targets UNTIL NOW, so I have never looked at effenciency. I do use 5star although there seems to be some thought in these forums that it is not necessary.

The only thing I can offer is the same others have suggested. If you are consistantly under effecient (missing SG targets by 10% for example), then an extra buck for a 10% more grain will get you back to the target you are looking for.

Good luck!

I just wanted to give an update, I bought a grain mill recently and I've done two batches with it. My efficiency is up to 80-85%, so it looks like that was the source of my problems. Now off to brew more beer...