All Grain IPA - what hops when?

Hey All,

I'm having a crack at an IPA, following this recipe but with the differences in that I have a different set of hops, when would you add what to this brew?

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 64.29 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 14.29 %
2.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 14.29 %
1.00 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 7.14 %
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (45 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 12.9 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 8.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Everything the same other than Hops:

2 Chinook 1oz
1 Soriachi Ace 1oz
1Citria 1oz

Can I still make something awesome here? I have thus far in my brewing career managed to make a pigs ear of every batch

I would definitely cut down the crystal malt by at least half, even though that wasn't your question. It's WAY too much crystal malt! You can even leave the crystal malt out with good results. I'd cut the victory a bit also.

As far as hopping, I'd go with something like this:

1 ounce chinook 60 minutes
.75 ounce sorarchi ace 15 minutes
.75 ounce chinook 10 minutes
1 ounce citra flame out

Dryhop with leftover hops, along with another ounce of citra if you have it!

Awesome thanks! Too late to take out the Crystal..

How many days in would you dry hop?

And a total noob question, those hops added up to and including flame out - would you leave them in the primary or remove before primary? I do like it hoppy..but in the past thought to pull them out after the boil (in a bag)

Nevermind - just read this- thanks again Yooper https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/when-remove-hops-94129/index2.html

Holy cow that's a ton of victory and crystal in there. I hope you mashed low, and used a hearty yeast, and a ton of hops... That or like a really, really sweet beer!

Well... truth be told there is no Victory, its special B. I was in the store reading the recipe looking at the wall of grains and coundn't find it so opted for the most exciting sounding option.

I decided to chuck in all the hops (in the same order as suggested but all the packs) and am stoked to get a reading of 10.060 for the first time ever -please don't tell me it will taste like pants now...

I def would not have substituted Special B for victory, victory is more along the lines of a biscuit if you are looking for a sub.
You are gonna have tons of caramel flavors in that beer and you may wanna get more hops to dry hop with to let the hops shine if you are looking for more of a hop flavor

Ouch! Three pounds of crystal, especially with a whole pound of special B is going to give you a beer that is unbalanced. next time use no more than 5% total of crystal malts! You've got, what? 22%? Well, think of it as a sweet American amber and not an IPA and it might not be too bad!

I think you guys are in a different position from me, I've made 2 lots of bottle bombs followed by a starting gravity of 10.020 and as my 4th brew I won't need any imagination to taste a delicious and alcoholic amber IPA! I'm just hoping it doesn't explode or taste like cherry coke (though I would take the latter)

matthague said:

I think you guys are in a different position from me, I've made 2 lots of bottle bombs followed by a starting gravity of 10.020 and as my 4th brew I won't need any imagination to taste a delicious and alcoholic amber IPA! I'm just hoping it doesn't explode or taste like cherry coke (though I would take the latter)

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If you are having bottle bomb issues you may need to look at things other than the recipe, mostly you are bottling too early and not letting the beer finish fermenting. Start there.
As far as your gravity reading I'm assuming you meant your FG @ 1.020 which for certain styles and based off of the OG ins't out of line. You really need to document your process and take readings if you are having that many issues. Also make sure everything is clean before you start and sanitize, sanitize, sanitize

CityOChampBrew said:

If you are having bottle bomb issues you may need to look at things other than the recipe, mostly you are bottling too early and not letting the beer finish fermenting. Start there.
As far as your gravity reading I'm assuming you meant your FG @ 1.020 which for certain styles and based off of the OG ins't out of line. You really need to document your process and take readings if you are having that many issues. Also make sure everything is clean before you start and sanitize, sanitize, sanitize

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No I meant after I boiled and cooled the wort I got 10.020. I have a gift.

I also tend to leave in primary for 3 weeks and check FG for stability so I think it might have been an infection.

One thing I'm struggling to do is shake the smell off the fermenters despite multiple washes/rinses with sanitizer so maybe I'm putting the brew in dirty buckets, but don't know what else to do. Ill track this one more closely.

Plan to leave it for 10 days then dry hop for 7 more then transfer to bottling bucket and bottle that same day- is that good (providing FG is stable at the end of 17 days by checking 3 days running)?

If thats your Original gravity you have bigger problems than bottle bombs. First I have to assume that you either have a typo or just don't understand how to express the gravity. It will never be 10.xxx so I have to assume you mean 1.020 and in that case you will be lucky to have a beer with more than 1% alcohol. Is this your first all grain attempt, if not you have some serious efficiency issues and need to correct that first. Start by explaining your whole process; grains milled correctly?, whats the mash temp and for how long?, what method did you do biab, batch sparge, fly sparge? These are bigger things to worry about than the specific recipe if you can't get a drinkable beer out. Bucket smell is nothing as long as you cleaned it and sanatized. Make sure you are cleaning and sanatizing the bottles as well as thats where most bottle bomb infections occur.

Yeah my first all grain, didn't mill properly is my thinking. Anyway got 1.060 (thanks for the correction) from this batch so that isn't a concern now.

Thanks for the clarification on the smelly buckets, good to know. Ill be back later once the brew as fermented for a bit and there are more exciting updates to share.

1.060 sounds much better, glad it wasn't 1.020 good luck with the results I hope you finally get a good one.

No offense but your beer might not taste good at all. That much crystal and special b in the will be gross. It certainly won't be anything near an ipa.

FATC1TY said:

No offense but your beer might not taste good at all. That much crystal and special b in the will be gross. It certainly won't be anything near an ipa.

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Can you direct me to a good IPA recipe?

matthague said:

Can you direct me to a good IPA recipe?

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There are plenty out there, look to see what fits your tastes. I know what hops I like, and I know when I like to add them (late), so I tinker with grain bills, which don't need to be too complicated.

Also, from reading your posts, it sounds like you are milling your own grain. Do you use a mill, or something else? That could be a big issue you have, if you aren't using an actual MILL to crush your grain. Banging it with a hammer or a rolling pin won't be that great long term at al.

Like you, I like to make my own recipes and play, but with that, I also understand what most of the grains taste like, not all of them, but majority of them.

Do you use a program like Beersmith? It'll help you if you like to make your own recipes, ideally if you are looking for a style of beer, such as an IPA on what keeps it in style. I don't really brew to style, but I use it as a guideline and try to stay close to it in most attributes.

For instance, it wouldn't say that adding 2# of Crystal would be bad, but you would find that adding special B would really toss the color off, which would be a heads up that the grain isn't something you want to use in a a traditional IPA. You added roughly 3 # of kilned sweet malt, and one that is dark, and very sweet, and generally used in very small amounts in darker roasty beers. You tossed that in a beer that should be all hops, and not sweet.

Try something simple; here's a grist I use for a basic IPA that turns out fine. I mix the hops up, use whatever you like the taste of, bitter it to like 60-80 IBU's and it can be as balanced as you'd like, or add more and make it more west coast styled and more hop forward than some other IPA's. I like to use Cascade, Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe, Chinook, Columbus.. any of those combos in this recipe would be great. Piney, Floral, Citrusy.

11# 2-row
.5# Munich
.5# Vienna
.75# Crystal 40

That'll would be roughly 1.060-1.065 depending on your volumes and efficiency. I get roughly 1.065 or so from it. Mash it at 152* to get a nice light to medium body from it.

60min boil.

Add hops at 60 minutes or First Wort, and then go from there. Add at 15min, 10min, 7min, 5min, 1min, and flame out/whirl pool. Dry hop it with 2 ounces of something and you'll have a nice hoppy, flavorful, neutral yet balanced grist that doesn't get in the way of the hops.

Awesome advice thanks!

Regarding the milling first time I bashed the grain but now I have the shop mill for me so it comes out properly.

I'm keen to learn more about the grains like you suggested, and think it will not take me too long to get a basic grasp, it's just not something I've overly considered on the past and would have followed the original recipe if they had all that in stock (though it seems that recipe was flawed anyway) ill definately have a crack at that IPA you put up and look forward to trying it.

Hopefully my latest turns out like a Sixpoint Sweet Actionor something...

I'm planning to dry hop it with 2oz which might take some sweetness out hopefully.

Quick follow up (and another question!)

Dry hopped it yesterday about 7 days in G has dropped from 1.060 to 1.030 which is looking nice, as I wasn't seeing a lot of airlock activity and was a little worried.

Now I'm thinking, what if I don't get down to a stable FG with all those hops in there- should I rack to bottling Pail leaving the trub and hops behind and use it as a secondary for a few days if it hasn't stabilized? I'm worried if the dry hopping will turn out bad if left too long waiting for the gravity to balance?

matthague said:

Quick follow up (and another question!)

Dry hopped it yesterday about 7 days in G has dropped from 1.060 to 1.030 which is looking nice, as I wasn't seeing a lot of airlock activity and was a little worried.

Now I'm thinking, what if I don't get down to a stable FG with all those hops in there- should I rack to bottling Pail leaving the trub and hops behind and use it as a secondary for a few days if it hasn't stabilized? I'm worried if the dry hopping will turn out bad if left too long waiting for the gravity to balance?

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Well, a few things.

You shouldn't have dry hopped it while the gravity was so high. It's fermenting and will blow off the volatile aroma compounds in the hops, rendering your dry hopping less than effective.

Where is your final gravity estimated to be at? If you messed up really bad, you might only have roughly .010 points to go till it's done.

If the beer isn't done fermenting, leave it. Removing it from the yeast too soon will cause issues, one being that it will be too sweet, and stop the fermentation process.

You should be fine to leave the hops in there, but you did mess up by putting them in too early. Next time wait until it's done fermenting before you add them.

Check in a week and see where the gravity is. If it hasn't moved, your done, and you'll have a super sweet beer if it's done at 1.030 from 1.060

FATC1TY said:

Well, a few things.

You shouldn't have dry hopped it while the gravity was so high. It's fermenting and will blow off the volatile aroma compounds in the hops, rendering your dry hopping less than effective.

Where is your final gravity estimated to be at? If you messed up really bad, you might only have roughly .010 points to go till it's done.

If the beer isn't done fermenting, leave it. Removing it from the yeast too soon will cause issues, one being that it will be too sweet, and stop the fermentation process.

You should be fine to leave the hops in there, but you did mess up by putting them in too early. Next time wait until it's done fermenting before you add them.

Check in a week and see where the gravity is. If it hasn't moved, your done, and you'll have a super sweet beer if it's done at 1.030 from 1.060

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Thanks for the advice. Frankly not sure what the FG should be now since I adjusted the recipe. Though I am hoping for something around 1.015. I'll hold off on the hops next time around.

I'm learning a lot by messing up royally and your corrections, thanks very much!

No problem. Best way to learn is by doing, and in that process you find things that YOU like, and things you don't.

With the changes you made, I'd suspect that you won't get the beer that low, which will still be high on the FG.

Give it a week, if it hasn't moved, you are done. The dry hops aren't going to make the gravity change at all, so that isn't any issue.

Taste the beer when you take a gravity sample and see what you think before you proceed. With all the changes and issues, it might be good, or it might not.

I cracked the first bottle of this. 2-3 weeks in the bottle it's nicely carbed.

Hoppy nose; dark, brown color; interesting bitterness at finish. It also tastes stronger than 3.1% (from the buzz test I get after drinking one bottle).

It's not an IPA but it is my first successful brew and a damn good drink!

Much appreciated the advice I received here and a proud father.