Odd questions

I've been reading and reading and having a tough time finding a few pieces of info. Searching gets me hundreds of returns, I haven't the time to search through them all.

Is it REALLY a lager if it's not fermenting below 50 degrees or so?

What is a cyser? A Cider/mead blend of some sort?

This place rocks, by the way. Bottoms up!

Technically I dont think its a lager unless bottom fermenting yeast is used. This yeast is best fermented at lower temperatures, although this is not mandatory (steam beer).

Cyser is, as you guessed, mead with apples. mead with grapes is called pyment, with any other fruit it is called melomel. There are a few other sub-classes of mead, but they escape me right now.

- magno

magno said:

Technically I dont think its a lager unless bottom fermenting yeast is used. This yeast is best fermented at lower temperatures, although this is not mandatory (steam beer).

Cyser is, as you guessed, mead with apples. mead with grapes is called pyment, with any other fruit it is called melomel. There are a few other sub-classes of mead, but they escape me right now.

- magno

Click to expand...

Magno! U forgot the last...

"This place rocks." !!!!


And I couldn't agree more. :rockin:


Ize

Ize said:

Magno! U forgot the last...

"This place rocks." !!!!


And I couldn't agree more. :rockin:


Ize

Click to expand...

My mistake. Without a doubt this place does rock :rockin:

marshman said:

Is it REALLY a lager if it's not fermenting below 50 degrees or so?

Click to expand...

I'm sure you'll find opinions that differ, but lagers are traditionally brewed with lager yeast (bottom fermenting as previously mentioned) at cooler temperatures. Lager (loosely translated) is German for aging, which is an integral part of this brew style. The fermentation takes place over a longer period of time than most ales, and the beer is typically aged for at least several weeks, if not months, to mellow the flavor.

Steam beer, on the other hand, is brewed like an ale and fermented at ale temperatures, but lager yeast is used. Usually it has a pronounced hop bitterness and aroma, and it's often (IMHO) a pretty good beer.

And...this place rocks. :rockin:

I would have to say that it isn't a lager unless it is (a) fermented with a lager yeast at cold temperatures and (b) actually lagered for a period of time. Which is why CA Commons are not lager, the high fermentation temp, and the fact that you can "lager" an ale, but it is still an ale.

Yuri_Rage said:

I'm sure you'll find opinions that differ, but lagers are traditionally brewed with lager yeast (bottom fermenting as previously mentioned) at cooler temperatures. Lager (loosely translated) is German for aging, which is an integral part of this brew style. The fermentation takes place over a longer period of time than most ales, and the beer is typically aged for at least several weeks, if not months, to mellow the flavor.

Steam beer, on the other hand, is brewed like an ale and fermented at ale temperatures, but lager yeast is used. Usually it has a pronounced hop bitterness and aroma, and it's often (IMHO) a pretty good beer.

And...this place rocks. :rockin:

Click to expand...

I thought if you were lagering you had to maintain 50 degrees maximum, but the NB cacatalog puts it between 45 and 60 for their lager kits for 3 to 4 weeks. (your choice of wYeast of course)

(Also, I'm screwed, unless it's winter, my basement hovers between 72 and 76 degrees... Tell me how happy I am??? Ales in the summer, lagers in the winter?)

For the record... Anchor Steam rocks!

And yeah, I've said it before, this place rocks.... :rockin:

oops.

Ize

And I almost forgot...

This place rocks! :rockin::rockin:

Brewsmith said:

And I almost forgot...

This place rocks! :rockin::rockin:

Click to expand...

Ize

The lager question is a toughie...If I use a lager recipe and lager yeast and age for several months at the 68-ish degrees of my basement, will it still be lager? Is the 'lagering' temp the essential aspect, or the yeast?

Can it freeze? I'm considering brewing and using my February garage for the lagering, but wonder about the effect on the reeeeally cold storage on the yeast. As long as I keep the doors closed, as I would obviously be doing in Feb, the temp stays pretty consistent, but it's still nothing I'd have any real control over. Would I be better off using the warmish basement?

Thanks for the guidance.

Ize said:

(Also, I'm screwed, unless it's winter, my basement hovers between 72 and 76 degrees... Tell me how happy I am??? Ales in the summer, lagers in the winter?)

Click to expand...

Have you tried a po'boy lagerator? I haven't yet, but sounds like they work terrificially. Just a big tub of water, a wet towel, a little bit of bleach (presumably to keep mold from growing) and some ice packs changed out once a day. My basement is just about the right temp in summer for ales, but nowhere near right for lagers (and I'm reasonably far north), so it'll be a po'boy for for when I decide to try a lager.

Oh - and this place rocks. :rockin:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-2.html

Lager comes from the German word "lagern" which means to store. A lager beer is in cold storage while it ages in the conditioning phase. Temperature influences lagers in two ways. During primary fermentation, the cooler temperature (45-55 °F) prevents the formation of fruity esters by the yeast. In addition to producing fewer byproducts during the primary phase, the yeast uses the long conditioning phase to finish off residual sugars and metabolize other compounds that may give rise to off-flavors and aromas. Unfortunately, this long time with the beer in contact with the yeast can be a problem. The problem is autolysis, i.e. yeast-suicide, which can produce terrible off-flavors in the beer.

Click to expand...

Bird--don't you have a nearly ideal situation? Brew your lagers in late winter, they should be ready to rack in early spring and bottle by mid spring. Two big batches might just get you through the summer, and then you've got all summer to make ales, porters and barleywines to get you through the winter.

I'm starting to wrap my head around the times required to get the best results, so I need to start brewing for what I think I'll want in 2 months rather than what I want now. I'm guessing why there are three or four pumpkin ale threads working right now, eh?

Baby steps.

marshman said:

The lager question is a toughie...If I use a lager recipe and lager yeast and age for several months at the 68-ish degrees of my basement, will it still be lager? Is the 'lagering' temp the essential aspect, or the yeast?

Can it freeze?

Click to expand...

The lagering phase is done at 30-34*F, only the fermentation is done at 50*.

The water in beer will freeze, but not the alcohol. This is part of the process for making an eisbock beer.

marshman - a very simple box, even a large cardboard box and a pipe "freeze protector" is all you'll need in the garage.

marshman said:

so I need to start brewing for what I think I'll want in 2 months rather than what I want now.

Click to expand...

Sometimes ever further out. If you are brewing "bigger" beers, you will want to let them age, and mellow a bit longer. This is why you are seeing so many Pumpkin Ale threads now, we are planning for what we will be drinking come Nov/Dec, that way we can give this beer proper time to condition, and age, so it is in its prime drinking shape, during the holiday season.

Most beers get better if you let them age a bit, really, if you give yourself more like 3-4 months out, you will get better results.

This topic is what I love about this forum. As my wife kissed me goodnight, she looked at the screen and said, "Don't stay up all night." She knows from experience I'll be reading every thread under every topic, picking up every piece of info I can. This sight rocks. (Sorry, no smily faces).

I sit here and laugh, and I sit here and learn, as experienced homebrewers pass on facts and opinions, both of which I question, to answer queries, both simple and complex.

Is it lager? Why do you care. If you made it, and it tastes good, it's yours. If you think you can make it better, do it. It's still yours. And when you make it better, you may have a better idea.

As Danny Elfman said:

You worry too much, you make yourself sad,
You can't change fate, so don't feel so bad,
Enjoy it while you can, It's just like the wheather,
So quit complaining brother, no one lives forever.