Stout - Fermentation issues?

Hi all.

So, last week, Wednesday I started my 2nd ever brew. It's an export stout kit from Simply.

I followed the instructions / continue to use mr knowledge from first brew. I added some vanilla extract and black treacle to the bin along with 1Kg of beer enhancer in place of the sugar.

Mixed it all up, put it in place and put the brew belt on. The temp has stayed between 24-26 since. The bin seem pressured as the lid is tight and pushed up if that makes sense.

However, my worry is... I got some action in terms of foaming on the thrusday, however it only lasted a around a day if not less and not loads of it. It's now all gone and no foam.

What's this mean? Is it ok?

I've not got it with me but when I took a hydro reading before putting the lid on, on brew day it was 1046 I think!

Thanks for any help.


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It's probably ok 24-26 is pretty warm, what yeast did you use. It did krausen so it's probably chugging along. Whats the gravity now?

Oh the instruction say to keep it at around 25C? What temp would you keep it at?

I've not done it again, as I don't wanna take to many readings / open lid to often! I was going to take a reading after 7/8 days as that was recommended time?

Thanks!


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BrettPreston said:

Mixed it all up, put it in place and put the brew belt on. The temp has stayed between 24-26 since.

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That's either waaaaay too hot (assuming that's °C) or way too cold (if °F). I'm guessing you'd notice if your beer froze solid, so that's gotta be °C, which is around 79° F. That is much, much too hot for beer. If you started this kit last Wednesday, then fermentation has already finished and I'm afraid this batch will be undrinkable. You fermented at least 10°F too hot. You should never, never use a heating belt on your beer except when connected to a temperature controller like an STC-1000.

BrettPreston said:

However, my worry is... I got some action in terms of foaming on the thrusday, however it only lasted a around a day if not less and not loads of it. It's now all gone and no foam.

What's this mean? Is it ok?

Click to expand...

It means you fermented much too hot and the yeast got overexcited and fermented much too quickly. In doing so, they produced a ton of off flavours, the worst of which will be fusel alcohols (tastes like nail polish remover).

I'm sorry this happened to you, but who told you to put the heating belt on the beer? You've gotten some bad advice. Temperature control is extremely important in producing good beer, and for most ale yeasts, the sweet spot is between 62-65° F (17-18° C). I hope this beer will be a good learning experience for you, but for next time, it's crucial that you keep the beer's temperature between 62-65°F, at least for those critical first 2-3 days of fermentation. Google "swamp cooler" for threads describing a cheap way to do so using a simple plastic laundry tub, water, and a t-shirt.

Good luck, don't give up!

That's pretty warm to ferment at. If you can in the future try to keep the temp in the 18-20C range. Given the temp you fermented at and the OG reading you took I'd say its probably finished fermenting. Smaller beers don't always get a huge high krausen so there's no worry there. Give it another week or two and bottle/keg it up. Definitely look to try and lower the temps in the future though. Fermenting that warm can give you fusels and create some weird esters.

Judging by the time you posted and the suggested temp and using celcius etc. maybe you are an aussie and maybe you had coopers yeast? if you did it will probably be ok

kombat said:

That's either waaaaay too hot (assuming that's °C) or way too cold (if °F). I'm guessing you'd notice if your beer froze solid, so that's gotta be °C, which is around 79° F. That is much, much too hot for beer. If you started this kit last Wednesday, then fermentation has already finished and I'm afraid this batch will be undrinkable. You fermented at least 10°F too hot. You should never, never use a heating belt on your beer except when connected to a temperature controller like an STC-1000.



It means you fermented much too hot and the yeast got overexcited and fermented much too quickly. In doing so, they produced a ton of off flavours, the worst of which will be fusel alcohols (tastes like nail polish remover).

I'm sorry this happened to you, but who told you to put the heating belt on the beer? You've gotten some bad advice. Temperature control is extremely important in producing good beer, and for most ale yeasts, the sweet spot is between 62-65° F (17-18° C). I hope this beer will be a good learning experience for you, but for next time, it's crucial that you keep the beer's temperature between 62-65°F, at least for those critical first 2-3 days of fermentation. Google "swamp cooler" for threads describing a cheap way to do so using a simple plastic laundry tub, water, and a t-shirt.

Good luck, don't give up!

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+1. Next time, do it at cooler temps and enjoy the goodness. What could your temp have been without the brew belt?

Kit instruction (of which there are apparently many) that encourage folks to pitch and begin the ferment (of anything but a saison) at those mid-upper 70's temps are just plain wrong. They result in lots of frustration and discouragement when the beer turns out tasting like a**.

kombat said:

If you started this kit last Wednesday, then fermentation has already finished and I'm afraid this batch will be undrinkable. You fermented at least 10°F too hot.

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I would not give up on your beer yet.

24 is a bit high. I don't use artificial temperature controls on my ales, but rather rely on the ambient temperature of my basement which is typically a steady 69 to 71 (around 21 in Celsius).

I have had a few beers which seem to blow through their fermentation activity within about 24 hours. Not all of them have been great award-winning beers that I hand to my friends and family. However, many of them have turned out to be just fine, and even some have been darn good.

If your gravity is looking good when your check it next, then don't judge the beer before you try it. It might not be great, but its likely that it will be drinkable, and the experience will make you a more wise more brewer.

I'd agree that's a bit warm to ferment. I does depend on the yeast strain, but in general what every one is saying here is correct. Ideal temperature for an ale yeast is probably around 67 degrees. Just to give you an example of the other end of the extremes, a saison yeast should be upwards of 80+ degrees for fermentation while lager yeast might need to be in the 50 degree or lower range.

Also it is not uncommon for the krausen (the heavy foaming) to start pull back after only a day or two. Primary fermentation in an ale might only last four days or so.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-2.html

I wouldn't call the beer ruined until you bottle it and try it. It still may end up being very drinkable (maybe just not perfect)

I'd agree that's a bit warm to ferment. I does depend on the yeast strain, but in general what every one is saying here is correct. Ideal temperature for an ale yeast is probably around 67 degrees. Just to give you an example of the other end of the extremes, a saison yeast should be upwards of 80+ degrees for fermentation while lager yeast might need to be in the 50 degree or lower range.

Also it is not uncommon for the krausen (the heavy foaming) to start pull back after only a day or two. Primary fermentation in an ale might only last four days or so.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-2.html

I wouldn't call the beer ruined until you bottle it and try it. It still may end up being very drinkable (maybe just not perfect)

Thanks guys. Seems as thought some bad advice and being a new comer have proved issues here!

If I were to remove the belt, this would help yes?

See if it is ok and if it seems to of came to a halt would it be an idea to try and restart it with another yeast?

When I get home this eve, I will take that belt off, allow the temp to drop and hope it kicks starts!




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Also, what hydro reading should I expect from an export stout?

It's an extract kit made by Simply.

Thanks.


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BrettPreston said:

If I were to remove the belt, this would help yes?

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Unfortunately, the damage is done. Yeast produce the bulk of their flavour compounds during those first 2-3 days of fermentation.

BrettPreston said:

See if it is ok and if it seems to of came to a halt would it be an idea to try and restart it with another yeast?

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The problem with fermenting warm isn't causing the yeast to stall out. The problem is they ferment too vigorously. You see, the yeast actually LOVE the warmer temperatures. They go crazy. They ferment like mad. But in doing so, they produce a lot of the flavours we don't like. So our "best practice" is to ferment them cooler, in the low-to-mid 60's, to cause them to calmly and methodically ferment the sugars, instead of just going to town on them. Adding more yeast now won't do anything - there'll be very few fermentable sugars left in your beer. Fermenting warm would have caused the yeast to consume anything and everything available to it.

Ok, likely hood is it's done for then. Shame. I'll give it a taste never the less.

On another note, is there a rough guide to hydro readings, so mine started at 1046, what would be the hopeful hydro reading of when it is ready for example?

Is there a guideline reading or different for each beer?


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It's "ready" when the gravity stops changing. That is, after 2-3 weeks of fermenting, take a hydrometer reading. 3 days later, take another one. If they're the same, it's done. If the gravity is still dropping (very unlikely after 3 weeks unless you have an infection), then give it more time and try again in a week.

The final gravity is a product of many factors, such as the fermentability of the wort and the attenuation range of the yeast being used. Also pitch rate, temperature control, and aeration can factor in to determining just what your final gravity will be. But in general, once it's stopped, there's not much you can do to force it down much further.

I concur with Kombat's assessment. What is will be at this point.

Are you using a bucket, or a glass/plastic carboy? I prefer observing my beer as a method of determine where it is in terms of being ready to bottle. Waiting for an ideal final gravity isn't usually very effective, as creating a wort that will land on an ideal final gravity is a bit difficult without a great deal of control over the mashing process.

I watch my beer. Once the airlock has calmed, and the beer has cleared, then I know it’s ready.

I have found that I enjoy brewing more when I don't stress my mistakes. I take note of them, and attempt to avoid them again in the future, but don't let them take away from the beer that you have made.

The beer will be what it will be. Enjoy it for what it is. Sometime mistakes make for some interesting results. I recently made an American strong whose final gravity was supposed to be 1.015. Turns out my thermometer was reading 8 degrees Fahrenheit to high. Beer ended with a final gravity of 1.006. It made for a very malt, dry beer. Not what I expected but interesting and great.

Hi everyone. Thanks for all your comments.

So, tonight I've just done a hydro reading. It was 1.010. The beer seems to smell ok, I tasted a small amount, it was roasted and slight coffee taste to it, slightly bitter also. Now nothing to bad considering it's a export stout?

So, original reading at start was 1.045 and reading now is 1.010 which gives a rough AVB of 4.6% which is not to bad.

I've taken the brew belt off and put it far far away! Temp is dropping and hopefully will get down.

My question is, do you think I should continue with it. Leave it for another few days till the weekend to clear etc the try bottling and pressure barrel it up, leave for a 3/4 weeks and see what it taste like?

My hope, is that, as it's a stout, it won't taste off or be to obvious and hopefully drinkable! I know it won't win no prizes but with a shot, surely?


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Definitely finish it, for sure. You've nothing to lose at this point except your time and a few bottle caps. Might as well see it through so you'll have something to compare your next batch to.

It will still be drinkable...some of you are too much...


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I'd finish it. Lack of perfection does not mean lack of drinkability.

Exactly...


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When I was first brewing, I made tons, I mean tons, of goofs. You know what?, it was still drinkable, so we drank it. Chalk up that mistake, and hope to not do that same one again. Wrong, I did it again anyway, and after a couple of bottle conditioning weeks, it wasn't bad at all. Except some were gushers. I figured out after two gusher batches in a row, I had gotten complacent about cleaning, and It hasn't happened since.

Your right, mistakes are what make us learn. I'm not a fussy person, I like good crafted beer but equally if I've made it I won't poor it away unless it's totally undrinkable.

So, I'll leave it in there, give it some more time say till the weekend which would of been 11 days. Is that to soon to move to bottles and barrel, it had a fast fermentation as you can see but hopefully some off flavours will clear and it being a stout might mask it. Either way, I'll be drinking it!

Thanks for all your help. Makes it more fun sometimes!


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This is my issue, regulating the temp. So after the bad advice of keeping to warm I removed the belt. It's now settled and it sits in this, at night it might go lower.

What are good ways to regulate temp, I live in a flat currently so not many places to try out. Tried a radiator area last time and it went up and down which I know is not good either!


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BrettPreston said:

What are good ways to regulate temp, I live in a flat currently

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As I referenced earlier in this thread, the cheapest and easiest way to regulate temperature is with a plastic laundry tub ($8 at WalMart), water, and a t-shirt. You put the fermenter into the laundry tub, then fill the tub with water up to a few inches below the level of the wort in the fermenter (so it doesn't float off the bottom of the tub). The water will "sink" the heat away from the fermenter. If temperatures start warming up too much, you can drop some frozen water bottles into the water to keep the water (and therefore wort) temperature down.

If you're using a carboy, you can additionally cover the fermenter in a wet t-shirt, which will evaporate water away, taking heat with it, and wicking up more water from the tub below. Some people also add a fan in this configuration to stimulate evaporation and thus cooling.

The other benefit to this arrangement is that you've vastly increased the "thermal mass" of your wort, meaning you've dampened temperature swings it would experience as the ambient temperature rises and falls periodically. That is, if the room temperature drops at night, the combined volume of the wort plus the water will take longer to cool with the ambient temperature than the wort alone would. By the time it starts dropping by a few degrees, the room could already be starting to warm up again as morning arrives.

Thanks good advice, is that mainly for keeping cool?

Most people have said keep it at 18-20, from the picture it's currently in the 16-18 mark and slowly dropping more down to 16, so my question is, is that ok? If needing warmer which is best way as heating belt gives to much warmth it seemed..


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