Bells Oberon Clone

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Tiber_Brew said:
This beer, Move Overon, has matured now. The batch with the US-05 yeast has been on tap for about a week now. The other three taps are occupied, so I can't yet do a side by side comparison of the two yeasts. I will offer what notes I can on this beer in the mean time.

I brewed this on 4.22.10 and at kegging (5.3.10) the US-05 was 5.3% ABV and the WY1010 was 5.5% ABV.

The US-05 batch is a hazy lightish orange, just about the color of Oberon. It has great mouthfeel, with medium-light body. Hints of orange aroma and citrousy flavor are owed in part to the 0 minute cascade addition and the orange zest. Some hop aroma is present, but not overpowering. The smoothness and "noble" quality of the Czech Saaz is detectable, but this is clearly a malt driven beer. Very drinkable, as I have put a few long sessions in with this beer and always want a little more. I tried putting a slice of orange in the beer and it compliments it nicely if that's your thing. (I know plenty of people who drink Oberon with a slice of fruit as well.) Head retention is outstanding. Good lacing on the glass. This will be a beer to brew again, that's for sure.

Since this isn't an Oberon clone, I won't compare it to Oberon. (Other than I'd rather drink this than Oberon any day.)

I'll update with notes on the WY1010 batch (kegged and waiting) when it's on tap.

Cheers!
TiberIfoundmyhotsunnydaybeerBrew
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I am going to brew this exact recipe, however wondering about a few things.

OG
FG
Eff

Also German Munich or Domestic? Lovibond on them

Based on your notes upping the c-40 to .75.

Anything else you would do?
 
Cryptochronolite said:
6lbs American 2 row
4lbs American White wheat
.5lbs Carapils

1oz Saaz 30min 3.5% AA (leaf)
1oz Saaz 15min 3.5% AA (leaf)

.5oz Saaz 3.5%AA and 1oz Cascade 5.5%AA in secondary (dry hopped for 14 days) (leaf)

Strike water was set to 136ºF.

Mash-in at 133ºF for 15 minutes.

Pull 3 quarts of mash, bring to boiling in a separate vessel.
(About 10 more minutes).
Return to mash-tun -
Decoction target temp is 155ºF, you may need to adjust your decoction volume. I used this decoction calculator for my math.

Rest at 155ºF for 60minutes.

Pull 1 gallon of mash. Bring to a boil, return for a mash out.
Mash target temp is 168ºF.
Rest at 168ºF for 15 minutes. (again, using the Quaff calculator for my old setup)

Chilled rapidly, heavy oxygen, fermented in primary at 63ºF for five days. Racked to secondary, added hops, bottled after two weeks.

The yeast from the oberon bottle is a little small, so I would expect you will have flocculation issues. I am unable to find a good substitute from WL or WY for this yeast, but it may not matter.

OG 1.059
FG 1.014-016.

let me know if there's any other way I can help. I have no made this on my 20 gallon system yet, but I plan to do it soon.
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I brewed this recipe yesterday afternoon and pitched yeast at 5:00pm, Wyeast 1010. This morning at 8:00am the airlock was bubbling away nicely. Where I ferment, the ambient temp is 63*, but the actual temp of the wort is right now at 71*. Is the pushing the limit on this yeast, or should I be ok at 71*?

Thinking about putting together a swamp cooler for this brew, but if it's not necessary, then I don't really want to. What does everyone think?

Thanks for your help.
 
Going to attempt a recipe from a mixture of all the previous posts in this thread

Questions though, I see several different recipes using a multitude of yeasts... has anyone nailed down which one is the closest?

I see:

1272 American Ale Yeast II
Wyeast Labs #1010
WLP320 American hefeweizen

Going to gather the ingredients to probably just start off with a 5gal batch
 
Crypto,

I'm planning on starting a harvest of Bell's Pale Ale yeast this week (since Oberon isn't here till March 30). How big of a starter did you use to pitch? I'm assuming stepping it up to 1L (using a stir plate) probably won't be quite big enough for a 5 gallon batch. Mr. Malty suggests a 1L starter on a stir plate would work at that OG, but considering the yeast is being harvested I'm a little hesitant to not go to 2L.
 
I measure viability, so I've pitched as small as 250ml of slurry and as much as 1500ml. It really depends on yeast health, which is not entirely under anyone's control. If you followed sanitary procedure, it smells good and there looks like a good 1/4-1/2inch of white yeast cake in your 1000ml, then I would say pitch it. The key to healthy yeast reproduction is sterols, which are created from lots of oxygen and a tiny bit of nutrition. Oxygenate between propagation upgrades and select the lower-middle of the yeast cake each time. Good luck, I'm excited to hear how this turns out.
 
Thanks for the guidance. This will be my first bottle harvest and first attempt at an Oberon clone. Mine will be a mini-mash with a pale and wheat DME base (I've only done extract to this point but am looking to move to all-grain sometime later this year), but the recipe is based pretty heavily on the insights from this thread, and emails I've read that people have gotten back from Bell's. What you've said about the Bell's yeast is echoed by the LHBS guys I've spoken to on this, it really makes the difference. Considering Oberon is such a mainstay up here in the summer, I'm pretty excited to see how this one turns out when it's ready in early April.

If anyone feels like critiquing, here is the link to what I plan on going with:

http://hopville.com/recipe/1139362/american-wheat-or-rye-beer-recipes/auberon
 
Crypto-
Just want to say thank you for the GREAT recipe. I only bottled 7 days ago and couldn't resist trying one tonight. Put it in the fridge for about 3 hours and had my first taste. BINGO, Oberon. Pretty much right on the money. I absolutely could not believe how good this beer taste 1 week in the bottle and barely carbed at all.

This recipe just jumped up to next in line to be brewed in my brew pipeline. There will be heavy volumes of this beer consumed in the next 6 months or so. Awesome job on the recipe!
 
Thought I'd give a quick update on my Bell's bottle harvest. I'm now on day 8 and step 3 (250ml-->500ml-->1L) from the dregs of 5 bottles of Pale Ale bottled on 12/28. This is what I woke up to my starter doing this morning. Even on a stir plate all three steps have been given me some crazy levels of krausen. For anyone who's on the edge about harvesting yeast from some Bell's, I think it's safe to say that as long as it is relatively fresh, their strain has some serious life to it.

Yeast.jpg
 
Paul_Aris said:
Alright I will copy and paste in from promash and post it. I am at work now so don't have access to it.

I did tap the kege last night and my oberon is full of flavor. I was very impressed. I did not try it side by side with the comercial version this time but will probably do that tonight or tomorrow seeing how I have some in the fridge.
Click to expand...

Could you post your recipe, I am interested in brewing it.

Also Crypto, how would you recommend doing decoction with the BIAB method. I have never done a decoction but Oberon is one of my favorite if not my favorite beer and I am interested in trying to brew as close to a clone as possible.
 
Going to be trying my hand at this oberon clone, specifically the recipe Boerderij_Kabouter posted on page 2.

Also will be my first go at doing a decoction. So we'll see how this works out!

I will post up results and pictures as things progress. Ironically enough I will be stopping at the bells store today to pick up the ingredients for this clone. I only have 5 gal carboys, so I'll have to split this batch between two carboys.
 
CrackShotHolmes said:
Crypto-
Just want to say thank you for the GREAT recipe. I only bottled 7 days ago and couldn't resist trying one tonight. Put it in the fridge for about 3 hours and had my first taste. BINGO, Oberon. Pretty much right on the money. I absolutely could not believe how good this beer taste 1 week in the bottle and barely carbed at all.

This recipe just jumped up to next in line to be brewed in my brew pipeline. There will be heavy volumes of this beer consumed in the next 6 months or so. Awesome job on the recipe!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thanks, but honestly, this recipe is the work of many people on here; I'm just standing on the shoulders of giants.
 
Henry22 said:
How would you recommend doing decoction with the BIAB method. I have never done a decoction but Oberon is one of my favorite if not my favorite beer and I am interested in trying to brew as close to a clone as possible.
Click to expand...

Here's what I would do. Using a fist-full of BIAB bags, I would calculate the anticipated decoction volumes and separate them into the bags and *clearly mark them* somehow permanently. Then after the initial rest, I would pull the corresponding bag and empty it into the mash boiler. Once it's boiling, then I would put it back into a fresh bag (or you could reuse the old bag) and then return it to the mash. There might be an issue of overlapping grain volumes, so you might need to divide the entire grain bill into multiple bags.

For some reason the horror of elementary school "common denominator" is flashing through my head. Good luck and let me know if you want help with that. It's probably better placed in a separate thread: "Decoction BIAB" or something, but I would love to see how it turns out.
 
I just brewed this recipe again for the second time because it was SO good the first time around. I followed Crypto's latest version as I did before although this time i made some minor changes including

The intentional one-

single decoction done between protein rest and sac rest instead of a double decoction. Just batch sparged with 3.5 gals of 190F water for 15 minutes at 168F.


The unintentional ones-

1.) Added the first ounce of Saaz at 60 minutes instead of 30 minutes. (total mistake, not sure why I did this, perhaps routine? To try to make up for it I only added half ounce Saaz at 30 minutes and half ounce at 15 minutes.)

2.) Ran out of propane with about 10 minutes left in boil. (This means the last half ounce of Saaz only had 5 minutes in boil, irish moss only had 5 minustes in boil and my copper chiller only had 5 minutes in boil. Also means the first ounce of Saaz only had 50 minutes not 60 and the first half ounce had 20, not 30. Finally, I didn't boil off quite as much as planned and missed OG by .005 points which was expected and I can live with.)

Any idea on how all this will effect the final product? Taste, nose, etc... I am sure it will still be good, just wondering what to expect from some of you more seasoned brewers.

Thanks ahead!
 
I'm not an expert at all, but just based on observation I'm guessing it will still turn out fine, and any differences from the hop additions and shorter boil should be relatively minimal. Saaz doesn't have a high enough AA% where the extra bitterness should really much of an effect, plus you still have the cascade and saaz to dry hop. There are other recipes that use Herbrucker or other noble hops as a bittering addition that appear to have turned out very well, so as long as you hit your OG, personally, I wouldn't worry much. The recipe I did a few posts up smelled like and had a nice taste along the lines of Oberon already when I checked the gravity after 7 days in the primary, and it had a 60 minute bittering addition like yours did.
 
I plan to brew Crypto's recipe this weekend, with WY1010-- it will be my first decoction mashed brew. I think I have a handle on the process, but I have a basic question about astringency. I guess I'm trying to figure out why boiling decocted mash does not result in the astringent flavors that sparging too hot can.

Do I need to monitor pH while boiling the decocted mash? Does its thickness take care of the pH issue?

Thanks.
 
For what it's worth, I just bottle harvested some Bell's yeast. When I decanted the starter beer I tasted it and the first thing that popped into my mind was "Oberon!!"

I'll have to do some full-blown brewing experimnts, but I'm nearly 100% convinced that the Bell's yeast is what produces those distinctive fruity esters that make Oberon taste like Oberon.
 
JonM said:
For what it's worth, I just bottle harvested some Bell's yeast. When I decanted the starter beer I tasted it and the first thing that popped into my mind was "Oberon!!"

I'll have to do some full-blown brewing experimnts, but I'm nearly 100% convinced that the Bell's yeast is what produces those distinctive fruity esters that make Oberon taste like Oberon.
Click to expand...

I bought a sixer of Two Hearted yesterday with the same intentions, but figure I don't have time if I want to brew this weekend. How long it take for the yeast to take off?
 
I was pretty relaxed about it because I didn't have a brew on deck - I just wanted to see how bottle harvesting works. Anyway, with my kinda lazy approach, it took about 2 weeks to build up the dregs from 4 bottles of the 4.8% ABV Third Coast Beer to 1L. I'm sure I could have done it faster though.

On the bright side, I just washed the yeast and put it into some pint mason jars donors ready to go into a starter then I DO have time to brew.
 
JonM said:
I was pretty relaxed about it because I didn't have a brew on deck - I just wanted to see how bottle harvesting works. Anyway, with my kinda lazy approach, it took about 2 weeks to build up the dregs from 4 bottles of the 4.8% ABV Third Coast Beer to 1L. I'm sure I could have done it faster though.

On the bright side, I just washed the yeast and put it into some pint mason jars donors ready to go into a starter then I DO have time to brew.
Click to expand...

Good call on the Third Coast and its lower ABV.
 
JonM said:
I was pretty relaxed about it because I didn't have a brew on deck - I just wanted to see how bottle harvesting works. Anyway, with my kinda lazy approach, it took about 2 weeks to build up the dregs from 4 bottles of the 4.8% ABV Third Coast Beer to 1L. I'm sure I could have done it faster though.

On the bright side, I just washed the yeast and put it into some pint mason jars donors ready to go into a starter then I DO have time to brew.
Click to expand...


I'll second that, I harvested from some Pale Ale and it took I think 4 steps and almost two weeks to get it up to where I had enough to pitch in a 1L flask.

I know it's been said in here before multiple times but add me to the list of believers that the Bell's yeast is the key to the fruity, orangey characteristic Oberon has. I'm bottling mine tonight and even uncarbed I'm very pleased how close I got based on the taste of the FG reading I drew out last night. I will be buying a sixer next week when the 2012 batch comes out to compare once mine is carbed. Not sure what others have experienced with this strain, but I got 82% attenuation based on fermenting at 69, which which pushed my ABV to 6.2%, which is a bit high. I'm pitching part of a starter I put together this week using washed yeast from that batch into a Hopslam-ish type IIPA I'm doing tomorrow, and hopefully the rest of the starter will be used in an AG Oberon version I'd like to try in the next month.
 
soup67 said:
I plan to brew Crypto's recipe this weekend, with WY1010-- it will be my first decoction mashed brew. I think I have a handle on the process, but I have a basic question about astringency. I guess I'm trying to figure out why boiling decocted mash does not result in the astringent flavors that sparging too hot can.

Do I need to monitor pH while boiling the decocted mash? Does its thickness take care of the pH issue?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I wondered the exact same thing when I started learning about decoctions and I thought this BYO article summed it up nicely.

http://***********/stories/wizard/a...you-boil-part-of-your-mash-during-a-decoction

In short, you are right, the thickness of the decocted mash keeps pH low and should make tannin extraction in most cases a non-issue. That isn't to say some tannins aren't extracted, but it seems as though this imparts a desired flavor to certain types of beers that use a decoction mash.
 
I wish I could remember where I saw this, but somewhere on HBT, someone posted an email he got from someone at Bell's who recommended fermenting at 72 when makin an Oberon with Bell's house yeast.
 
JonM said:
I wish I could remember where I saw this, but somewhere on HBT, someone posted an email he got from someone at Bell's who recommended fermenting at 72 when makin an Oberon with Bell's house yeast.
Click to expand...

I remember reading the same thing. AdamWiz who posted a recipe a few pages back also said to go 72-73, which makes sense considering the estery profile of the Bell's yeast, and the impact that has on the flavor of Oberon. I had good luck at 69-70 and I know Crypto's recipe calls for low-mid 60's, so I guess it's really up to the individual brewer to find the sweet spot that works for their system and recipe.
 
HopRodGR said:
I wondered the exact same thing when I started learning about decoctions and I thought this BYO article summed it up nicely.

http://***********/stories/wizard/a...you-boil-part-of-your-mash-during-a-decoction

In short, you are right, the thickness of the decocted mash keeps pH low and should make tannin extraction in most cases a non-issue. That isn't to say some tannins aren't extracted, but it seems as though this imparts a desired flavor to certain types of beers that use a decoction mash.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Spot on.
 
Any problem with including rice hulls in the decoction, or should I wait and stir them in to the mash with the decoction?
 
soup67 said:
Any problem with including rice hulls in the decoction, or should I wait and stir them in to the mash with the decoction?
Click to expand...

I put mine in when the decoction goes back into the mash. I didn't see a need to decoct hulls which would probably kill their ability to keep the grain bed a touch looser.

Is it a problem? Not sure as I've never done it. Don't know if anything bad gets extracted if you boil rice hulls.
 
How long did you hold the above batch in primary and secondary fermentation? I'm guessing there is a need to hold this a bit longer than usual. I'd love to give this a shot. Thanks.
 
How long did you hold the above batch in primary and secondary fermentation? I'm guessing there is a need to hold this a bit longer than usual. I'd love to give this a shot. Thanks.
 
Sparty-On said:
How long did you hold the above batch in primary and secondary fermentation? I'm guessing there is a need to hold this a bit longer than usual. I'd love to give this a shot. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not sure who you are asking this to, but I believe this one was 12 days primary and another two weeks dry hopping before I bottled it. I primary all my beers for 12-14 days, then another week in secondary if no dry hop, and two weeks if there is. I'd just transfer to the secondary whenever you are confident primary fermentation is complete, but I'd advise a two week dry hop, especially if you aren't using Bell's ale yeast.
 
Just did the batch myself using a very similar recipe. We used 5 total oz of Saaz (2 oz at bittering and three separate 1oz 45m, 15m, and finish) along a combo of Briess White Wheat and 10L and 3.3lbs of Briess Pilsen LME and 3.3 of Wheat LME. I used the Wyeast1010 at pitch. Orig gravity came out at 1.044... starting to get worried as this was lower than anticipated and a suggest of 1.051... thoughts?
 
Hello everyone. I'm a noob when it comes to homebrewing and so most of these Oberon recipes are over my head at this stage of my homebrewing expertise.

I just had a queston about some of the extract kits available from some homebrewing suppliers.

Has anyone tried the extract kit available at Adventures in Homebrewing? I actually just brewed a batch of this kit last weekend but I can't find any reviews on it at all.

Right now it is in the primary fermentation bucket where I plan on keeping it for for around 24 days. Talked to a guy from AIH and he said he didn't see a need to transfer it to a carboy for secondary because it is a wheat beer so I'm just going to leave it go in the bucket unless someone thinks this is a bad idea.

Also, I've been reading about dry hopping with cascade? Would this be something I should add to this batch? I figured I could dry hop after 10 days and let it go for another 14 days before bottling. Does this sound like it would work?

Thanks, Matt
 
MMJfan said:
Hello everyone. I'm a noob when it comes to homebrewing and so most of these Oberon recipes are over my head at this stage of my homebrewing expertise.

I just had a queston about some of the extract kits available from some homebrewing suppliers.

Has anyone tried the extract kit available at Adventures in Homebrewing? I actually just brewed a batch of this kit last weekend but I can't find any reviews on it at all.

Right now it is in the primary fermentation bucket where I plan on keeping it for for around 24 days. Talked to a guy from AIH and he said he didn't see a need to transfer it to a carboy for secondary because it is a wheat beer so I'm just going to leave it go in the bucket unless someone thinks this is a bad idea.

Also, I've been reading about dry hopping with cascade? Would this be something I should add to this batch? I figured I could dry hop after 10 days and let it go for another 14 days before bottling. Does this sound like it would work?

Thanks, Matt
Click to expand...

He's right - really no need to use a secondary unless you plan on leaving it there a long time, or plan to dry hop. If you drop hop in the primary, you can actually coat the hops with yeast and you don't get as much from them... If you are going to dry hop, transfer after 2 weeks, but don't leave it on dry hops longer than one week. If you can, purge the secondary carboy with co2 before racking. Worst thing you can do is add oxygen to your beer at this point. Good Luck!
 
JSomps6 said:
He's right - really no need to use a secondary unless you plan on leaving it there a long time, or plan to dry hop. If you drop hop in the primary, you can actually coat the hops with yeast and you don't get as much from them... If you are going to dry hop, transfer after 2 weeks, but don't leave it on dry hops longer than one week. If you can, purge the secondary carboy with co2 before racking. Worst thing you can do is add oxygen to your beer at this point. Good Luck!
Click to expand...

This is the first I've heard of this. My recipe kits said nothing about purging my carboy with Co2 before transferring. I just used a siphon to transfer the beer from the primary fermenter to the carboy on my first homebrew (an IPA) prior to brewing this Oberon clone... :confused:
 
Purging with CO2 is only if you happen to have kegging equipment, and you just give a little blast of gas into your carboy before you rack into it. But it doesn't sound like you're that far along yet. Don't worry, it's not necessary.
 
While thinking about the extract clone I attempted back in late February, it dawned upon me that some adjustment is probably needed with the ratio of DME used for base malt. Since I believe the feedback from Bell's was the base was American 2-Row, about 40-45% wheat, and a bit of crystal, the initial thought would be to translate that to the ratio of Extra Light/Wheat DME or LME. This is what I did, along with about 1lb of a mix of Carapils, Munich and Melanoiden. It came out pretty dark, which I attribute in part to the use of the Melanoiden and DME, which also seems to come out darker than anticipated. Good beer, had the Oberon ester/fruitiness profile, but not close to a clone.

What dawned upon me today is that if you are using Briess DME, the Wheat is actually a 65/35 Wheat/Barley mix. Ultimately, I believe using a ratio of about 2:1 Wheat/Extra Light DME gets you closer to the base malt indicated by Bells. I would think adding some Carapils to steep and making at least half of the DME a late addition would get you to a good spot for an extract clone.

Anyone ever gone this route? I'd try it myself but I've moved on to AG brewing and don't anticipate making another extract batch like this.
 
I'm brewing an oberon extract "clone" this weekend. Here's my recipe:

8lb Austin Homebrew Wheat LME (40% wheat, 60% 2 row)
8 oz carapils

1 oz czech saaz (30 mins) pellet (3 AA)
1 oz czech saaz (15 mins) pellet (3 AA)

1 oz cascade leaf dry hop
.5 oz czech saaz leaf dry hop
dry hop in secondary for 14 days

wyeast 1010

OG 1.057
FG 1.014
11.4 IBU

I'm not going to an exact clone, just something that will get me close and tastes good.

I'll come back and post some results when I brew
 

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