REALLY Late Oktoberfest

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NigeltheBold

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I know, it would be crazy to brew an Oktoberfest so late in the year, but I wanted to try it and see what happens.

I'd like it to be finished by mid to late October at the latest, and I want it to be as close to the real thing as possible. I know there is no way I'll be able to lager it long enough, but I thought if I use a lager yeast that can ferment at around 60 degrees (the temp. in my basement), I'll be able to cold-condition it for about a month in my fridge (which is between 35 and 40 degrees) after it sits in primary for awhile.

What kind of yeast should I use? How long should it sit in primary (at 60 degrees) and how long in cold conditioning (between 30 and 40 degrees)?
 
Why not brew it as an ale with a clean ale yeast? If you brew this weekend you should have something ready to drink by mid October. It won't be "correct" but it should be good.
 
brick said:
Why not brew it as an ale with a clean ale yeast? If you brew this weekend you should have something ready to drink by mid October. It won't be "correct" but it should be good.
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I'd rather brew it with a lager yeast, but maybe an ale yeast would be a better option. What about an "in-between" yeast like White Labs Cry Havoc? I could do two weeks at 60 degrees and then cold condition for three or four weeks...
 
Sorry for yet another slightly off topic question that I didn't want to start a new topic for, but why would it be late to start it? aging time? brewing time for the style?
 
Use the steam beer strain from white labs or wyeast. You'll get genuine lager character and it can handle temps up to 65*F. I always use it for my 'Fests. Ferments fast, clean, and tastes like a proper lager -- not like a clean ale. Ferment it cooler and it only gets better.
 
tyraindreams said:
Sorry for yet another slightly off topic question that I didn't want to start a new topic for, but why would it be late to start it? aging time? brewing time for the style?
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Oktoberfests are typically brewed in the Spring and ferment/condition all summer long until late September arrives. They are lagered, so they take longer to ferment/condition and typically need a few months of cold storage to turn out right. I had no idea it took so long to make an Oktoberfest. That's why I'm late in starting mine. The one I make won't have the characteristics of a true Oktoberfest, but it might be better than no Oktoberfest at all.
 
bigbeergeek said:
Use the steam beer strain from white labs or wyeast. You'll get genuine lager character and it can handle temps up to 65*F. I always use it for my 'Fests. Ferments fast, clean, and tastes like a proper lager -- not like a clean ale. Ferment it cooler and it only gets better.
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So how long would you suggest fermenting if I ferment at about 60 degrees? How long should I cold condition at 35-40 degrees?
 
I made an ale version with a neutral yeast when I first started homebrewing. It was a kit and it was ok. Definitely did not stand up against commercial versions. That probably has a lot to do with being a kit and no cold conditioning.

Maybe a kolsch strain could also work with giving you a really clean flavor and then you could lager it and maybe produce something a little faster. Just another option.
 
Chabutna said:
Oktoberfests are typically brewed in the Spring and ferment/condition all summer long until late September arrives. They are lagered, so they take longer to ferment/condition and typically need a few months of cold storage to turn out right. I had no idea it took so long to make an Oktoberfest. That's why I'm late in starting mine. The one I make won't have the characteristics of a true Oktoberfest, but it might be better than no Oktoberfest at all.
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Thanks for the response, it might not be spectacular but it would still be festive :p
 
I am brewing an Oktoberfest on Monday.
No-one said you have to drink it in October...November will work fine for me :)
 
chemman14 said:
No-one said you have to drink it in October...November will work fine for me :)
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I was thinking the same thing! LOL I'm not doing an Octoberfest but I am doing a pumpkin ale tomorrow. I'm sure it will be tasty in late October ...early November.
 
I just brewed an oktoberfest ale Wednesday haha. About 3 1/2 weeks to ferment and clean up, then 2 weeks in bottles, just in time for October 1st haha, used a modified version of bier munchers Oktoberfast, Scottish ale yeast to leave some malt behind, hopefully will end up right about 4.5-5%
 
I really have to say that IMO it is the lager yeast that makes this beer. I've been trying several US versions of Oktoberfests and am just not that impressed, while most of the actual German Oktoberfests always produce what I'm looking for (Ayinger's being the best). I mean, when it comes down to it, what is an Oktoberfest but an Amber made with lager yeast. Of course, DGB suggests that winning Oktoberfests used all kinds of different yeasts, but I'm speaking for myself here.

I'll probably brew one of those OktoberFASTS (ale yeast) at some point, but I'm already suspicious that my pallet wants the tastes and aromas made by german lager yeasts. I'm definitely curious to try it with Cal Common yeast though. What a crazy idea! I love that yeast.
 
I went with the San Francisco Lager yeast from White Labs. Planning on at least two weeks in primary, then maybe another two weeks in secondary, then bottling.

Is there any way I can speed up carbonation by re-pitching yeast? I've heard of some people sprinkling dry yeast in the bottling bucket before bottling. Will this speed up carbonation? Will it add different flavors since I'd be using a different yeast? What temp. should I carbonate at?
 
I brewed an Oktoberfast Saturday, aiming for our party on 10/1. Went with Danstar's Nottingham Ale yeast on recommendation from Yooper, fermentation started almost immediately, going to give it 1 week at 58-60 degrees, raise it up to 70 for a couple of days, then plummit down into the 40's until I have 2 weeks till party day, adding the priming sugar and leaving at room temp for the 2 weeks. Hoping to get some lager characteristics out of the ale.

It's a push but fingers crossed :D

Best of luck with yours! I've never pitched additional yeast into a beer for carbonation, only dextrose and boiled water, so I don't have much to say on that. I imagine though you would be okay using standard dextrose measurements provided you give your batch 2+ weeks at room temp to carb..

Subscribing, I'm curious if anyone else comments on using yeast...
 
You can pitch different/additional yeast at bottling without any affect on flavor. It's common practice. I've added dry ale yeast when bottle conditioning 3 month old lagers, then conditioned them at room temperature for three weeks with no off (ale) flavors contributed to the lager at all. Adding more yeast is not going to speed up the carbing process. Beer that's only been in the fermentor for one month will have plenty of yeast still in suspension to carb the beer -- adding more yeast is only going to produce a much larger scum layer in your bottles and disrupt the brilliant clarity that this yeast strain produces. I'm brewing an Oktoberfest this friday and I'm using the same yeast as you (SF Lager). If I were you, I'd skip the transfer to secondary and just do a long primary. Leaving the beer on the yeast will allow the full volume of the yeast to clean up any off flavors and produce the cleanest Oktoberfest possible.

Edit: I keg my beer and have a temperature controlled fermentation space, so I'm going to stretch my primary as long (and cool) as I possibly can, then speed carb the beer in a couple of days.

Maybe scrape the bottom of the fermentor (once) with your racking cane while you transfer to your bottling bucket to displace a few extra billion yeast cells. Regardless, you're going to need to wait a full three weeks after bottling to have a properly carbonated beer. You'll have fizz at 10-14 days, but the carbonation won't be lasting as the pressure in the headspace of the bottles needs about three weeks to reach its peak and begin dissolving into the beer properly.

Good luck, post the results!
 
bigbeergeek said:
You can pitch different/additional yeast at bottling without any affect on flavor. It's common practice. I've added dry ale yeast when bottle conditioning 3 month old lagers, then conditioned them at room temperature for three weeks with no off (ale) flavors contributed to the lager at all. Adding more yeast is not going to speed up the carbing process. Beer that's only been in the fermentor for one month will have plenty of yeast still in suspension to carb the beer -- adding more yeast is only going to produce a much larger scum layer in your bottles and disrupt the brilliant clarity that this yeast strain produces. I'm brewing an Oktoberfest this friday and I'm using the same yeast as you (SF Lager). If I were you, I'd skip the transfer to secondary and just do a long primary. Leaving the beer on the yeast will allow the full volume of the yeast to clean up any off flavors and produce the cleanest Oktoberfest possible.

Edit: I keg my beer and have a temperature controlled fermentation space, so I'm going to stretch my primary as long (and cool) as I possibly can, then speed carb the beer in a couple of days.

Maybe scrape the bottom of the fermentor (once) with your racking cane while you transfer to your bottling bucket to displace a few extra billion yeast cells. Regardless, you're going to need to wait a full three weeks after bottling to have a properly carbonated beer. You'll have fizz at 10-14 days, but the carbonation won't be lasting as the pressure in the headspace of the bottles needs about three weeks to reach its peak and begin dissolving into the beer properly.

Good luck, post the results!
Click to expand...

So are you suggesting skipping cold conditioning all together? Or do you mean I should cold condition in the primary after a couple of weeks of fermentation? Should I just keep it in a glass carboy the whole time (until bottling)?
 
I use liquid wort kits from The Brewhouse. They only sell their Oktoberfest in September. I managed to save a couple of bottles from last year, and they're now fantastic: dry, malty, delicious. This year, I ordered four kits. I'm going to save at least two for a year.

Btw, I do all my fermentation and ageing at cellar temperatures with good ale yeast.
 
Chabutna said:
So are you suggesting skipping cold conditioning all together? Or do you mean I should cold condition in the primary after a couple of weeks of fermentation? Should I just keep it in a glass carboy the whole time (until bottling)?
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Yes, I'd cold condition in the primary, sorry for not being very clear about that. Exactly, in the carboy until bottling.
 
While it may not be "true to style", I think you still have time if you brew within the next week. Most recipes I have seen say to lager for at least 4 weeks. If you brew this weekend and give it 3 weeks in the primary, that gives you 5 weeks to lager it and have it be ready for the end of October. I just did an Oktoberfest last month (to the day actually) and I am aiming for it to be ready the end of September. Mine will have lagered 6 weeks total and while it is not exactly traditional, I am sure it will still be good.
 
I'm also planning to brew a late Oktoberfest, probably Wednesday night. Can anyone comment on my process?

I'll be using DeFalco's recipe, with an ale yeast.

I can get my water bath down to about 60 degrees at best to ferment.

I'm planning to primary for 1 week, secondary for 1 week (adding gelatin to clear), then condition in the keg for two weeks at 45 (on gas).

Do I need a longer cold conditioning time? Should I eliminate the secondary and just add a week in the keg? Any suggestions for favorite ale yeast for this?
 
brick said:
Why not brew it as an ale with a clean ale yeast? If you brew this weekend you should have something ready to drink by mid October. It won't be "correct" but it should be good.
Click to expand...

WLP029 German Ale/ Kölsch Yeast
 
My fan on the lager box started crapping out this morning!

Not going to happen, Oktoberfest! You will not beat me, I will triumph and drink you!
 
bigbeergeek said:
3 week primary, one week cold -- that will get you where you want.
Click to expand...

boom...right there.

My first lagering experience I did this. Add a day or two to clear and it was just stunning how good the results were.

Look at it this way though....worst case scenario is that you've got good beer to drink for Thanksgiving!
 
Skarekrough said:
boom...right there.

My first lagering experience I did this. Add a day or two to clear and it was just stunning how good the results were.

Look at it this way though....worst case scenario is that you've got good beer to drink for Thanksgiving!
Click to expand...

Did you keep it in one container, or transfer to a different container for cold conditioning?
 
Chabutna said:
Did you keep it in one container, or transfer to a different container for cold conditioning?
Click to expand...

Brewed and spent 24 hours inside for the yeast to take off.

Fermented in the garage for ten days in early April with temps in the mid 40's.

Came inside for 48 hours to warm up.

Transferred to a corny keg and put in keezer where temp was dropped from 45 to 35 over ten days.
 
Why not just lager it for the usual length of time using your normal process?

My local brewery put out there Oktoberfest today, and it will be all gone by the first week in October. Most commercial stuff will be sold out or not as fresh by the end of October.

By the time all the commercial stuff is sold out, yours should be good to go, and you can have great beer (my personal favorite style) throughout November or December.
 
ghank15 said:
why not just lager it for the usual length of time using your normal process?

My local brewery put out there oktoberfest today, and it will be all gone by the first week in october. Most commercial stuff will be sold out or not as fresh by the end of october.

By the time all the commercial stuff is sold out, yours should be good to go, and you can have great beer (my personal favorite style) throughout november or december.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Brewed it yesterday, and things went pretty well. Missed the OG by about .002 points, but that's no big deal. Transferred the wort from the kettle to a glass carboy, pitched the SF Lager yeast, and it's been bubbling for several hours now. Keeping it at about 60 degrees in my basement.

I'm a little concerned, because I accidentally transferred quite a bit of hop sediment and trub into the fermenter. I usually strain the wort as I transfer it, but that's hard to do with a carboy. Do you think the hop sediment in the fermenter will cause the beer to be too hoppy/grassy? I wouldn't be worried if this was a hoppy recipe, but it's an Oktoberfest, not an IPA or anything. Should I be worried? Should I transfer to a secondary container after fermentation completes to get the beer off of the hops?
 
Fan replaced, brand new replacement is trucking away, really made a difference as well, I'm getting some really crazy airflow all of the sudden.

@ Chabutna, I wouldn't sweat that you didn't strain your wort, I didn't strain mine either, I normally don't strain anything. Just means you'll have more at the bottom of the carboy when all is said and done, the yeast should still clean it out well being you've got a couple weeks ahead of you. Let the yeast do their thing and crash the temps afterward, it should clear out nicely.

If anyone gives you any guff about a little something floating in their beer, tell them to shut their mouth then drink it for them. :)
 
There was lots of activity in the fermenter for the past few days. It's starting to slow down now, and the air lock is bubbling more slowly. I think I'll leave it at sixty degrees for about two weeks and then check the gravity. I'll keep you all updated as I go along, but it may be awhile until you hear anything about this beer since it's going to be sitting in primary for awhile.
 
Well, I got super impatient throughout this whole process, and I ended up bottling the late oktoberfest about a week and a half ago. So it was in primary for two weeks at 60 degrees, secondary for two weeks (at about 40 degrees f), and it has now been in the bottles for a week and a half at 60 degrees.

Just to see how it was coming along, I cracked one open yesterday. Believe it or not, it was already carbonated after 1.5 weeks. It still tastes a little green (needs more time to age and condition), but overall I'm happy with the results. The SF Lager yeast produced a nice, clean and refreshing beer. In other words, it tastes like a real lager. I'm not an expert or a judge, but I think it's pretty darn close to the real thing. The beer is nice and clear as well. If I had to change anything, I would have left the beer in primary for one more week (for a total of three weeks). I was a little high on the FG. Some people told me to do this earlier in the thread, but I was too impatient.

Anyway, if anyone does this in the future and uses the same yeast, I definitely recommend a 3-week primary and at least a week in cold conditioning. Two weeks might be better. Then a couple of weeks in bottles and you're good to go.
 
I finally bottled mine as well Chabunta, been a fun beer to rush... Total time spent in the bucket - 8/21 to 9/25. Still came in at 1.010 so I have it gauged right at 6.3% ABV, a very dark blond color to it, almost brown, crystal clear though!! Hoping that holds out once chilled. The gravity sample was MAAALLLTTTY, definitely has a clean taste to the pallet but it struck me as an ale and not much like a lager, not complaining though... Very good stuff, can't wait for it to carb up.

How about a picture once you crack into another one?
 
Jsmith82 said:
I finally bottled mine as well Chabunta, been a fun beer to rush... Total time spent in the bucket - 8/21 to 9/25. Still came in at 1.010 so I have it gauged right at 6.3% ABV, a very dark blond color to it, almost brown, crystal clear though!! Hoping that holds out once chilled. The gravity sample was MAAALLLTTTY, definitely has a clean taste to the pallet but it struck me as an ale and not much like a lager, not complaining though... Very good stuff, can't wait for it to carb up.

How about a picture once you crack into another one?
Click to expand...

Picture coming soon!
 
k9uddx.jpg


Sorry the pic is a little blurry. You can't quite see how clear the beer is in the picture, but it's pretty darn clear. I like the color though.

Tasting it for a second time, I get an interesting aftertaste. I think it's from the yeast, because I made another beer with the same yeast and tasted the same thing. It's hard to explain what it tastes like...

Maybe next year I'll use a real lager yeast and start the beer quite a bit earlier. The results from this brew weren't bad though!
 

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