cleaning bottles

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JLivermore

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I'm sure this has been covered 100 times. I read a few threads and checked a few youtube videos but am still unclear what agents are needed during the cleaning process.

I had some of this batch in a keg and some in bottles. Keg -- A-OK. Bottles -- off taste for sure.

I just soaked them in hot water and scrubbed them with a bottle brush.

(Then sanitized w/ starsan)

So I think my error was not using a cleaning agent prior to sanitizing.

If possible I'd like to do this today w/o a trip to the store. Is dish soap good enough? Should I buy something else for next time?
 
Don't use dish soap. It contains the enzyme used to keep water spots off. It kills the head on the beer from leaving a coating on the glass.
 
Most people clean with a detergent brand called "five star" PBW. It stands for powdered brewery wash. I get mine from my local home brew store.
 
Thanks. I'll get some for next time. I'm far from LHBS, no car, going to use dish soap and attempt "rinse extremely thoroughly" today.

You can laugh a month from now if it sucks.
 
I've also found through experience over time with the same bottles to use a bottle brush & dobie every time. Even if you're just rinsing out the dregs. Fine particles tend to build up slowly in spots that are hard to get a direct line of site on.
Also,a grainy crust slowly builds up on the lip of the bottles. I think this causes co2 coming up to X amount of pressure to leak out,leaving lower than intended carbonation. We'll know in a couple more weeks when this last batch is ready to drink whether my theory proves correct or not.
Anyway,rinse the dregs out of the bottle,then fill it up to the shoulder & use the bottle brush thoroughly. Empty & rinse again. Soak the dobie with water,& under the faucet stream,crimp the dobie over the lip of the bottle with your hand & scrub thoroughly,making sure to also scrub the level surface on top of the lip. I've found a small groove molded into some of these bottle lips on the top of the lip. Rather odd...
 
Thanks. I'll get some for next time. I'm far from LHBS, no car, going to use dish soap and attempt "rinse extremely thoroughly" today.

You can laugh a month from now if it sucks.

grab a container of oxyclean or "oxygen" cleaner from your 99 cent store.... will work just as well as pbw for 95% of people and be a HELL of a lot cheaper. here's my process and ZERO bottle issues so far

1. soak in oxyclean or pbw
2. rinse out and toss in the dishwasher
3. run dishwasher with NO soap on sanitation mode
4. dunk in star san and bottle


it may be a little overkill but really isn't any harder than soaking and rinsing... just takes an extra 40 minutes to run the sanitation cycle on your dishwasher (sanitation mode runs uber hot to kill off any nasties)

if you're doing it today. clean them with a mild detergent and THEN run them through the diswasher on sani mode. that should rinse MOST of the residue off. then star san it and go....

OR if you're close to a walmart just pick up their "sun" oxygen cleaner (oxiclean knockoff) for like $4 and do it that way.... same result as PBW
 
I've had a ton of luck with soaking the crap out of my bottles in super hot bath water until they're clean than soaking them for 20-30 seconds in sanitizer and not rinsing the sanitizer out.

Though I will fully admit that I have water included i nmy rent for my apartment, so I have no qualms using gallons and gallons of water to clean my beer bottles.
 
I have found that sterilizing is better than sanitizing. I rinse my bottles after I decant. On bottle day I bake my bottles for one hour at 350. Let cool in the oven and then drape Saran wrap over them to prevent contamination. Too much work with brushes and solutions
 
While "brushes & solutions" sounds like a lot of work,it doesn't take very long at all. I go through them rather quickly. We're not talking about soending 5 or 10 minutes on each bottle. Just a quick rinse-scrub-rinse & they're good to go. Besides,I'm finding that it's a good part of the process. Dishwashers can't spray up into the bottles very well to wash or rinse out cleaners. And I always thought that possibly too many oven cycles could weaken the glass. Sometimes,doing things by hand can be better in the long run. Especially if it dioesn't take all that long.
Yes,making things easier is good. But only to a point. Then it's just to hurry up & get it overwith. This is the flaw that can cause problems with beer.
 
Heating gradually to 338, and leaving them in the oven to cool after the bake relieves any chance of thermal shock. 338
° is to low of a temp to change the molecular structure so there is no worry of " weakened glass". Since the bottles is where you condition your brew why not kill ALL bacteria as opposed to MOST that you get from sanitizing. I would rather spend that hour of cleaning 48 bottles to focus on my sanitation of the plastics and proper preparation of my boil and wort cool down process.
Cheers
 
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I was speaking in terms of time,not weakened the first time out. I'm sure you knew what I meant when you made those obvious comments. So don't be degrading. It can grdually weaken over time with many heating & cooling cycles.
 
Mike is pretty much spot on with this one. If you heat and cool slowly, and keep the temps to below 375 F (best to set your oven to under 350, as oven temps regularly vary by 25 degrees), you'll probably never get "fatigue" in the glass from repeated cycles. In fact, in soda lime glass, most changes in structure can't occur under 500 F. Chances are you'll give the bottle away, or drop it, well before you ever get to enough cycles to even start to see any issues. I'm not saying this to be degrading in any way, just pointing it out. I'm a materials engineer, and while I don't currently work with glass, it is one of the materials that schools do a lot of training on (it's cheap, easy to find, and complex enough to be of educational value!).

That being said, I STILL find it faster and easier to soak, scrub, rinse and sanitize. It's incredibly fast, and you have to scrub prior to heating in the oven anyways. I've never had a bottle issue doing this.
 
I just rinse them thoroughly immediately after pouring and let them dry. On bottling day I soak them in Starsan for a minute, shake, drain and bottle. No problems thus far. Am I being reckless? Will I get infected soon?
 
This is my process and it's worked flawlessly, every time. I get really clean bottles, excellent head retention and have not once had an off flavor or infection due to bottles. And I've cleaned some gnarly looking bottles.

1. Jet wash bottles to get any major gunk out
2. Soak in oxyclean for 24 hours, stirring bottles at least once
3. Jet wash bottles
4. Dip in light lemon juice or vinegar solution (to prevent oxy spots)
5. Dip in water to remove lemon juice / vinegar
6. Jet wash bottle again to remove any lemon juice inside
7. Dry, case and store
8. Squirt twice with vinator when bottling

I use around 3-4 cups of Oxyclean per 15 gallons of water if it's a new batch of bottles from an unknown source and about 2 cups if they're my rinsed bottles. Hope that helps.
 
I just rinse them thoroughly immediately after pouring and let them dry. On bottling day I soak them in Starsan for a minute, shake, drain and bottle. No problems thus far. Am I being reckless? Will I get infected soon?

There was a thread the other day where a guy was starting to get gushers and he didn't know why. While we probably won't know his exact problem immediately, one subject that came up was bottle washing. Like you, and like many other people, I used to do the shake-and-rinse right after emptying a bottle. Then I'd store it dry and sanitize before use. Just recently I started seeing a stubborn yeast residue that seemed to build up to a visible level after several uses. I haven't gotten gushers yet, and I've been using these same bottles in heavy rotation for about 2 years, but it made me realize that I should pay more attention to deep-cleaning bottles. Since I haven't had problems yet, and bottle cleaning is already plenty of work, I figure I'll deep-clean with Oxiclean a few times a year. But you should inspect your bottles very closely, and if you see any spots or residue on the inside, give them a hot Oxiclean soak.
 
Is a jet bottle washer enough if done immediately after pouring. If is buying one still worth the money
 
darth5aint said:
Is a jet bottle washer enough if done immediately after pouring. If is buying one still worth the money

I wouldn't use it alone. I'd soak in PBW at least every 2nd batch. But they certainly help with rinsing, so a jet washer can be a good investment.
 
I just rinse them thoroughly immediately after pouring and let them dry. On bottling day I soak them in Starsan for a minute, shake, drain and bottle. No problems thus far. Am I being reckless? Will I get infected soon?

Instead of just rinsing them I also run them through the dishwasher. Then when its time to bottle I rinse/soak them I star san for a moment and have never ran into a sanitation issue. Knock on wood.
 
This is my process and it's worked flawlessly, every time. I get really clean bottles, excellent head retention and have not once had an off flavor or infection due to bottles. And I've cleaned some gnarly looking bottles.

1. Jet wash bottles to get any major gunk out
2. Soak in oxyclean for 24 hours, stirring bottles at least once
3. Jet wash bottles
4. Dip in light lemon juice or vinegar solution (to prevent oxy spots)
5. Dip in water to remove lemon juice / vinegar
6. Jet wash bottle again to remove any lemon juice inside
7. Dry, case and store
8. Squirt twice with vinator when bottling

I use around 3-4 cups of Oxyclean per 15 gallons of water if it's a new batch of bottles from an unknown source and about 2 cups if they're my rinsed bottles. Hope that helps.

dang, that's WAY overkill on the oxyclean. for 15 gallons 3 of those 1 oz scoops is more than enough to peel the hide off a donkey let along clean out bottles
 
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