PID Cycle time help...

So, I am playing with my PID... on my newly updated rig. It is from Auber, the one that many other ppl are buying here.

I am happy with the performance, but I have a question about cycle times when in manual mode. It sayes that "t" is the cycle time, adjustable between .5 - 125 seconds. When "t" = 0 the cycle time is .5 seconds it sayes. So, I try 3, 4, 5... and guess what, the cycle time is ALWAYS 5 seconds. Not bad, I can still boil at 65% pretty nicely, but what gives?

I would love to cut the cycle time in half, but no matter what I set it to, it is 5 seconds or more. When I set "t"=10... it is 10 seconds... but once I get under "t"=5, it is always 5 seconds. UNLESS I set it to 0,1 or 2... THEN the cycle is 60 seconds. Why?

Here is the manual... am I missing something?
http://auberins.com/images/Manual/Manual version 3.4.pdf

What model number is yours?? I assume that since your controlling a SSR that you have logic output control.

SYL-2352

It is nice, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get less than a 5 second cycle time.

Hum....

As the manual reads, other then 0, each number would represent its value in seconds. IE. 3 = 3 seconds. Now unless there is a set delay value, then i'm just as stumped as you are

Yeah... I read it several times... makes no sense to me. Like I said, I can boil well at 65% with no real pulsing, but it would be cool to get a 3 second cycle time. Maybe I can email Auber.

EDIT: I just emailed Auber, I will post what they say when they respond. The manual acutally sayes that if you are using an SSR, to set the cycle time to 2 seconds or less for better control. Well, I wish I could!!

You are trying to set the output cycle time per the manual, thought it was the calculation time delay but checked manual and found my guess was wrong. What is the OP-A value set to? is it set to 0.

FIXED it... I just decided to change the Proportional Constant from the defualt of 500 to 0.... bang... I can set any cycle time I want now! It is werkin fine. Now my output cycle is set at 1 second and there is NO pulsing!

BTW I ran the boiler for an hour at 65% and the heat sink barely got warm to the touch!

AHHHH CRAP!! you beat me to it... was going to say to set P = 1

Ahhh, I can boil nicely at 60% power with the 5500W RIPP and still maintain 209F in the kettle.

Now doesn't the PID in auto mode allow for ramp back after set points are met?

If nothing else, setup a small buzzer to alarm when say.... 210 degrees is met.

The Pol said:

FIXED it... I just decided to change the Proportional Constant from the defualt of 500 to 0.

Click to expand...

I think this may screw up - slightly - the PID when in manual mode. (Not 100% sure, but that what PID theory I've read leads me to believe.) Did other lower values, like 1, 50, 100 allow you to go lower?

I need to do some stuff on mine (general maintanence, cleaning etc.) So I may play with it this weekend...

I dunno what this thing does! I know it is sweet looking... I know it can boil at 60%! It would be cool to have it run at 100% until I reach 209 or 210F, then revert to manual and run at 60%.

bakins said:

I think this may screw up - slightly - the PID when in manual mode. (Not 100% sure, but that what PID theory I've read leads me to believe.) Did other lower values, like 1, 50, 100 allow you to go lower?

I need to do some stuff on mine (general maintanence, cleaning etc.) So I may play with it this weekend...

Click to expand...

Once I set the P to 0, I can set my cycle time to anything I want now. When P was set to 500... I could not get lower than 5 seconds, and if I tried to, values like t= 0, 1, 2 would yield 1 minute cycles. 3, 4, 5 would yield 5 second cycles. 6-125 would yield exactly what the input stated. The maual sayes to set P=1 to set a moderate gain, recommended for fast responding systems.... blah blah. So, I may just set it to 1... I set it to 0 just to mess with it, then I read it in the manual.

All I know is that it is working awesome!!! I set a 1 second cycle and I can run at 60%, rolling boil, 209F and there is no pulsing (duh .5 seconds on and .5 seconds off)

I dont see where it messed it up at all, it actually does what it sayes it should do when I adjust T

EDIT: I cannot set my P to 0... it only runs 1-9999%... so when I input 0, it defaulted to 1.

The dude from Auber got back to me... he basically said, how did you test how long the cycle was? And, why the heck do you want such a short cycle??

I said, I figured it out mang... I need a short cycle so that it doesnt pulse at 60% in my Brew Beast V2.0. Peace.

bakins said:

I think this may screw up - slightly - the PID when in manual mode.

Click to expand...

I meant auto mode here - which completely changes my statement... But if is BK, doesn't matter, I guess.

See: PID controller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Pol said:

I dunno what this thing does! I know it is sweet looking... I know it can boil at 60%! It would be cool to have it run at 100% until I reach 209 or 210F, then revert to manual and run at 60%.

Click to expand...

If it can do the cool things i think it can do... i'll figure it out. I work and program variable frequency drives from time to time. It's just a really big PID that does really cool things with pumps

Take a look at this manual and you'll understand why i always ask about what model you have

http://touro.ligo-la.caltech.edu/~o...n_Website/HEPI_Main_Page/pdfs/GEI_100364C.pdf

Ok, through several emails back and forth from Auber, the PID does not have the ability to auto adjust output levels. So the current manual configuration you have your PID in is that best situation. Of course there is nothing wrong with that. I still think you can use a buzzer of sorts wired to the alarm output of the PID to warn you when your temps gets to a level so you don't get a boil over.

IE. PID warns you it's at 205 degrees. You watch for boil then ramp back to your 60% - 65% range. The benefit here is that the PID is acting as the watchdog while you're doing other things.

That is a cool idea... I think when I am sparging that I may set my PID in AUTO and set it to 160F to keep the wort from cooling too much, so that when I am finished that I can more quickly reach my boil.

Well i'm sure by the time i get there you'll have your PID singing... of course i'm in the middle of putting your...uhm my HERMS system together. Just ordered my A419 this morning

Ha ha WHOS HERMS? I am planning to broadcast a brew session in a week or so. You better tune in!

Broadcast???? Live cam like Paltalk?

Live... yeah. Id also like to record it, so that I can do a spoof of Craigtube.

Very nice, would really be interested in seeing that. (Saves me from moving to Indiana) (Yes........... that was creepy )

Stile... I feel weird now talking to you. Um... well... yeah... so...

Ha, the broadcast will be in a week or two, depends on when I am off work ya know? The funny thing is now that I dont use LP... I need to heat my garage to brew comfortably! So, my burner has been repurposed to a heater!

If I do a live stream, is there a way that I can record it also?!

Recording depends on the medium. If you're just using a web cam, then you are limited to the size of your hard drive. If you use a DV camcorder, i believe you can record and stream out to a computer at the same time. I'm not 100% sure on that though.

Who freakin knows... I am going to do a POLL...

I set my P to 0 and t to 1. Works like a charm. I can boil 6.5 gallons in my insulated pot at 50% now with no "pulsing."

I'm trying to figure out what you guys mean by not pulsing. If you have a duty cycle of 1 second and you are at 50% output, the output in on for .5 seconds and off for .5 seconds. It's pulsing at any value other than 0 or 100%. Also, if you're in manual mode, it should not matter what the proportional (P) value is. The PID values are only for Auto mode. What am I missing?

I think the problem was solved back in January.

Yes, I understand your system is working. I was hoping for an explanation of what you meant by no pulsing. I just bought the same controller and from what I see it should always be pulsing the output...

BrewTube !!!!! YEAH!

Poobah58 said:

Yes, I understand your system is working. I was hoping for an explanation of what you meant by no pulsing. I just bought the same controller and from what I see it should always be pulsing the output...

Click to expand...

If you have boiled with it, you will see what pulsing is. It is the pulsing of the boil, obviously the power pulses. We are talking about the boil being vigorous, then not, then vigorous, then not... because of an inappropriately set cycle time.

ahhhh... now I get it. I have not boiled with it yet. I am using it for my mash (RIMMS) and sparge water so I don't ever plan on boiling with it... thanks

Pol,

I have a question about the PID with the SSR. When you say you set it to 60%, is the PID adjusting the output voltage to 60% of total, so out of your 5500 watt element, you're then getting 3300 watts?

Or is it at 100% power on for a period of time and off for a period of time?

Sorry if this question is rudimentary....

drost

Its cool Drost...

It is cycle time... SO you are 100% POWER, for 60% of the time. Effectively giving you 3300W.

There is no resistance type switch here, it is simply ON and OFF. So I have a 1 second cycle time.

60% of that ONE second the element is ON, and 40% of that ONE second the element is OFF.

Clearer?

The Pol said:

Its cool Drost...

It is cycle time... SO you are 100% POWER, for 60% of the time. Effectively giving you 3300W.

There is no resistance type switch here, it is simply ON and OFF. So I have a 1 second cycle time.

60% of that ONE second the element is ON, and 40% of that ONE second the element is OFF.

Clearer?

Click to expand...

Thanks Pol...

That's what I thought was happening, but just wanted to verify. With the PID that you have, did you have to program it, or is it already set to do that?

I basically have an older PID controller that has a minimum of a 5 second cycle time....it's really not getting the job done for the boil pot.

Thanks for the info! I've enjoyed reading your posts.

drost

I experimented with different cycle times, and yeah, 5 seconds will cause a lot of pulsing as you lower the % on ratio.

My PID is from Auber, the part # is in my materials list in the OP of "Bling Bling Electric HERMS Conversion"

It has both MANUAL and AUTO mode already, and manual mode is simply % output. You crank it up to 100% to reach a boil, and then turn it down to 60% to 65% to maintain it.

It is already capable of doing it, I just had to reset my cycle time.

Thanks Pol! That helps!

No problem!

Pol,

I finally got the Auber PID incorporated into the system and that thing ROCKS! I'm using it in manual mode only, and have to say that their customer service seems to be fantastic too. I sent them a question via email this morning and had a response within 10 minutes.

Can't wait to brew with this thing!

Thanks for pointing me in that direction....

drost