help! terrible off flavor in my lager

Help! Not sure what to do here. I've had good sucess with lagers in the past but something is off with my most recent creation. There is a terrible aftertaste to this beer. I can best describe it as soapy or plastic-like on the back of the tongue/roof of the mouth.
vital stats

• brew date: 9/24
• og: 1.053
• fg: 1.008
• yeast: wlp 820 (600ml starter)
• primary at 56 deg F for 10 days
• D-rest: 68 deg F for 2 days

racked to secondary and dropped temp to 36 deg F over the course of 15 days.
lager at 36 deg F for 10 weeks
I just filtered it and transferred it to a keg for carbonating

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might have gone wrong or ideas on how to fix this? Any help is greatly appreciated!

It appears your only ingredient was yeast. I bet that's it.

I can best describe it as soapy or plastic-like on the back of the tongue/roof of the mouth.

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Ehh may not be yeast related could be though, what it sounds like you are describing is chorophenol.

What is your water profile like? Do you pretreat with potassium or sodium metabisulfate?

thanks fastandy, knew I forgot to add something!

• 8 lbs Rhar 2row
• 2 lbs white wheat
• 2oz chocolate
• mash schedule...
• 136 deg F for 20 min
• 142 deg F for 20 min
• 152 deg F for 50 min
• batch sparge at 160 deg F
• 60 min boil
• I didn't record my hop schedule but it was bittered with liberty and flavor/aroma was Tetenang

Any chance you are using a chlorine based sanitizer? Is the yeast fresh or from a slurry?

thanks Satisfaction. I use city water which is chlorinated. I do not pretreat the water at all but I've made several beers with the water and this is the first time I've had this problem.
How does one deal with chlorophenol? Can anything be done to mitigate it?

thanks woodlandbrew. good point. I am using star san but the yeast I used was past it's expiration date by about 7 months. However, I made a starter which was slow but it did take off eventually.

maltman said:

thanks Satisfaction. I use city water which is chlorinated. I do not pretreat the water at all but I've made several beers with the water and this is the first time I've had this problem.
How does one deal with chlorophenol? Can anything be done to mitigate it?

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You can pretreat the water, by letting it sit out over night before brewing if it's chlorine. If your water provider uses chloramine, you can add 1/2 of a campden tablet (crushed), stirred into your brewing water before using. This will make the chlorine or chloramine dissipate. Otherwise, aside from buying brewing water, there isn't much else you can do.

Have you made several lagers with that water?

Generally, most lighter lagers benefit from very low mineral water (R.O. Water for instance). Carbon Block filter will help with chlorine in your tap water. When I brew light lagers I start with 100% R.O. water. and add some minerals back in.

Process - a few things stand out, just because it is different than what I do - not saying it is wrong or the problem, but worth considering.

Your primary seems short and your temps seem a little high.

I generally go 21 days @ 49-50 degrees. Then I do D-rest for a couple days and lager in keg for 6-12 weeks.

Also, 600ml starter seems like it could be a little small for a lager. Also, did you oxygenate. Perhaps if your yeast got off to a sluggish start and it did not have enough time to really finish its job, that might be part of problem. Water could certainly be an issue too. I guess those are the two things that stand out to me as being different from my process.

Edit: oops - I see you said you have done lagers before with success.

maltman said:

thanks Satisfaction. I use city water which is chlorinated. I do not pretreat the water at all but I've made several beers with the water and this is the first time I've had this problem.
How does one deal with chlorophenol? Can anything be done to mitigate it?

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Lots of MA folks posting today.. Just pulled your city water report and they do use various levels of choramine. Perhaps you had a heavy dose of it during brew day.

http://www.mwra.com/annual/waterreport/2008results/partially-supplied/marlborough.pdf

If it was me, I would always treat with a metabisulfate for saftey.


Now to get rid of that taste... aging most likely.

Thanks braufessor. I'm starting to think it has something to do with the expired yeast. Even though fermentation finished, I'm thinking the yeast health wasn't good which possibly resulted in the production of some nasty chemical. I'm just hoping its salvagable.

Satisfaction said:

Lots of MA folks posting today.. Just pulled your city water report and they do use various levels of choramine. Perhaps you had a heavy dose of it during brew day.

http://www.mwra.com/annual/waterreport/2008results/partially-supplied/marlborough.pdf

If it was me, I would always treat with a metabisulfate for saftey.


Now to get rid of that taste... aging most likely.

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Unfortunately, chlorophenols don't age about, and the taste threshold is very low, like 3 ppb. The beer is already 3+ months old, and has been lagered, so I don't think it's going to get any better unfortunately.

Thanks again yoper and satisfaction. I will definitely treat my water going forward. I think yoper may be right in that the beer is beyond help, but I'll give it another month or so before dumping it.

maltman said:

Thanks again yoper and satisfaction. I will definitely treat my water going forward. I think yoper may be right in that the beer is beyond help, but I'll give it another month or so before dumping it.

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Sorry about that..

You should see the water I have in central MA just 30 miles west of you, it is wonderful.. honestly the best tasting water.

Clean enough for any pilsner without touching a thing.

maltman said:

...the yeast I used was past it's expiration date by about 7 months.

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It sounds like it was likely the water at fault here, but you could test the yeast if you are curious. Especially if you are considering saving the slurry. You can plate the yeast by streaking like this:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/isolating-single-yeast-strain-by-plating.html

Use just one drop of beer on the plate. (The slurry concentration is much higher than you need)

Then look for bacteria colonies. It will take about two days to incubate before you see anything. Yeast will look like white dots. Bacteria is more translucent and slimy looking. Sometimes it can look like a nebulous cloud spreading under everything.

Another give away is smell. If after two days it smells nasty and not like beer, then it is also likely bacteria.

If you have a microscope that would be better for identification, but just to know if it is infected, plating should be fine.

Or you can send it to me and I'll take a look.
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/p/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html

you're lucky to have good water out there. I know well water can be 'hit or miss' sometimes. Hey, if you're looking for a homebrew club, there is one that meets in the Worcester area. We meet the 3rd Tuesday of the month at Deja Brew in Shrewsbury. http://www.brewbeer.org/
I'll be taking a sample of this to the meeting this month to hopefully get some additional feedback.

maltman said:

you're lucky to have good water out there. I know well water can be 'hit or miss' sometimes. Hey, if you're looking for a homebrew club, there is one that meets in the Worcester area. We meet the 3rd Tuesday of the month at Deja Brew in Shrewsbury. http://www.brewbeer.org/
I'll be taking a sample of this to the meeting this month to hopefully get some additional feedback.

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Thanks for the invite! I've driven by the store on the way to Wegman's but never stopped. First time seeing the club, looks like a lively group as well.

Will miss this months meeting due to travel, try to be there in February.