Orlando area water

Does anyone know if the Orlando area water is considered soft or hard? Any particular concerns with this water?

I've lived in the south Orlando area for about 11 years and brew with store-bought drinking water. Wondering if I should give tap water a try.

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I have used Orlando tap water through the filter on my refrigerator with no issue. I have been meaning to send it out to one of those mail-order labs, but given the scale it leaves on everything I'm going with hard water. At least here in the Baldwin Park area.

My water is from Orange County Utilities. Is yours the same?

I'm pretty sure you can get a chemical analysis from your water provider. For free. I haven't mainly because I've been using bottled water, but I've been thinking about asking for one.

My main reason for using bottled water is the smell of the water. It's, I don't know... sulfurus? It does leave scaling. But is that the type of water you get from a swamp?

I have been using unfiltered OUC water for a while with no issues. I am in Colonialtown if that makes any difference.

I haven't done any testing of the water aside from pH to ensure it wasn't out of control. I add a bit of gypsum and do nothing extra. I originally thought I was getting off flavors from the water, but once my fermentation was done with consistent temperature that went away.

I have no quantitative info but I know it is not soft. And the sulphur although that is not as bad as it used to be. I wonder what they do to reduce that and if that treatment yields water that makes a difference to brewers? Mine is also chloramine-ated. I used bottled Spring water (generally only a gallon or two) and the rest is RO from the machine at the grocery store. The RO stuff from the machine is only 25 cents a gallon and is 'almost' distilled, i.e. very soft.

SpanishCastleAle: Do you do extract only or do you do all/partial grains? I ask because I'm wondering about the effects of using almost destilled water with no minerals in it. That has a marked effect on the mash, no?

I haven't gone destilled and I've been using bottled drinking water because of that.

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ASantiago said:

SpanishCastleAle: Do you do extract only or do you do all/partial grains? I ask because I'm wondering about the effects of using almost destilled water with no minerals in it. That has a marked effect on the mash, no?

I haven't gone destilled and I've been using bottled drinking water because of that.

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All-grain. Check out the water chemistry primer sticky at the top of this forum. There are lots of minerals in the malt, the only one we really need to add (when using very soft water) is Calcium (preferably with no carbonate). But the alkalinity of our water is bad for brewing. I've been using 'primer water' for only a little while and haven't tasted most of the beers I've brewed with it but the early results are very encouraging. FWIW, I was having more problems with astringency with dark beers and less problems with lighter-colored beers but I was treating the water differently for dark vs light beers and didn't have a pH meter. Now I have a meter.

Also, I can't say it's the same for all bottled water but Zephyrhills Drinking water has more alkalinity than their Spring water, everything else is almost the same (Drinking water has double the Sulphate but it is still low). I'd use Spring water over Drinking water.

Info on Florida's aquifers. I assume here in Central Florida we get our water from the Floridan aquifer.

I called Orange County Utilities, Water Division, and got answers to some of my questions. For the remaining questions, they gave me the e-mail address of one of their water quality people who hopefully will be able to answer them.

Basically, Orlando area water is considered "moderately hard", with measurements of 7.7 "grains/gallon" (I don't know what that means). I live in south Orange and the water there measures 7.8 grains/gallon and/or 133.2 ppm.

The OCU water quality web page has a link to the 2010 Water Quality report in PDF format, which contains an analysis of the water provided by each processing plant. For the report itself, click here.

One key piece of information that is, strangely, missing from the report is water pH. That's one of the questions I've asked via e-mail.

So far for brewing I've been using Crystal Springs Natural Spring Water, which I can get quite inexpesively from Costco. I got a copy of their water analysis. To get it, click here.

I don't do all grain yet. I've been doing partial mashing. However, I'm going all grain with my next batch, so mash pH will be of more importance. And, quite frankly, while it's quite convenient and inexpensive to use bottled water, I'd like to use the local water instead. Call me crazy...

John_FL said:

I have been using unfiltered OUC water for a while with no issues. I am in Colonialtown if that makes any difference.

I haven't done any testing of the water aside from pH to ensure it wasn't out of control. I add a bit of gypsum and do nothing extra. I originally thought I was getting off flavors from the water, but once my fermentation was done with consistent temperature that went away.

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So, what are some of the pH measurements you are getting?

I, too, have gotten slightly weird flavors. And I, too, believe it's a temperature thing (fermentation in the mid-70s). Now I'm looking at getting a chest freezer to ferment in. I got my eye on this Frigidaire 9 CF Chest Freezer, Model LFFC09M5HW, from Lowes.

ASantiago said:

I called Orange County Utilities, Water Division, and got answers to some of my questions. For the remaining questions, they gave me the e-mail address of one of their water quality people who hopefully will be able to answer them.

Basically, Orlando area water is considered "moderately hard", with measurements of 7.7 "grains/gallon" (I don't know what that means). I live in south Orange and the water there measures 7.8 grains/gallon and/or 133.2 ppm.

The OCU water quality web page has a link to the 2010 Water Quality report in PDF format, which contains an analysis of the water provided by each processing plant. For the report itself, click here.

One key piece of information that is, strangely, missing from the report is water pH. That's one of the questions I've asked via e-mail.

So far for brewing I've been using Crystal Springs Natural Spring Water, which I can get quite inexpesively from Costco. I got a copy of their water analysis. To get it, click here.

I don't do all grain yet. I've been doing partial mashing. However, I'm going all grain with my next batch, so mash pH will be of more importance. And, quite frankly, while it's quite convenient and inexpensive to use bottled water, I'd like to use the local water instead. Call me crazy...

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That OCU water report doesn't contain the info we brewers need (unless I missed it). The pH of the water itself isn't very important here, it's the mash pH that is important.

The report for the bottled water does have most of the info we need, that stuff is considerably less alkaline than the Zephyrhills report (which is 140ppm Bicarb for Spring and 190 ppm Bicarb for Drinking, quite low in just about everything else brewers care about except Calcium @ 60 ppm).

And you're not crazy for wanting to use tap water, I thought I was the crazy one having to fill up two plastic carboys from the grocery store RO machine every week (plus the $2.50 to buy it).

SpanishCastleAle said:

That OCU water report doesn't contain the info we brewers need (unless I missed it).

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What specific information do we need? I can ask the person with whom I'm trying to correspond.

Calcium
Magnesium
Sodium
Chloride
Sulphate
Alkalinity

Provided none of the others are way high (way low is fine), the calcium and alkalinity are by far the two most important.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Calcium
Magnesium
Sodium
Chloride
Sulphate
Alkalinity

Provided none of the others are way high (way low is fine), the calcium and alkalinity are by far the two most important.

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Excellent. I'll ask about these.

I read the 2010 Water Quality report from OCU closer and you are right: the important stuff is not there. This report is more about contaminants in the water, rather than an analysis of the water make up. I'm sure they have that information somewhere, probably even downloadable.

UPDATE: Just sent my contact another e-mail requesting a water analysis report that contains the information you indicated. No answer to either of my e-mails yet. Must be... Friday...

While doing a little research, ran into this. Considering the topic, I thought it relevant:

Orlando's Water Quality Poor

Dang...

Just buttin in and not an expert.......but I have lived in east Florida for 50 years. There are only 3 water soueces in Fl. If you live in the urban service area of your town and Orlando is a bigass town, then you are on county or city water ( check your bills) which is a deep well and the municipality treats that water with chlorine and lots of other chems. They can be removed if you desire, RO is the best at total removal.
Then you have a shallow well --which is very hard and irony and sometimes smelly - but again can be treated to a tolorable taste.
Then you have a flow -- you know the water just flows up from the ground. Thats called an artesian well or what we in Florida call sulphur water. That too can be treated.
And in fact can be quite good if run through RO. I have a flow well and have made some decent beer as well as some decent mash for liquor. I think I remember reading that if you boil your water all those minerals you dont want will be cooked off so no harm no foul. Hope some of this helps.

Thanks for the comments, heeler. Not butting in at all.

I do get county water. Let's see what their response to my inquiries is, hopefully this week. I looked this weekend for a water analysis on the web, but they don't seem to have it posted.

I wouldn't mind the minerals, if they are not off the scale. The other chems, well, I'd rather do without them. I don't have RO capabilities right now, nor do I know where I can conveniently find RO water for sale. But that's OK. I'm using bottled water (spring water; see earlier post) and that has been working out for me just fine.

Those big water machines at just about every grocery store are RO water, it's 25 cents a gallon at the Publix I go to.

What kind of adjustments do you do to the RO water for mashing?

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My dad lives in Dr. Phillips and he told me the water is considered hard.

ASantiago said:

What kind of adjustments do you do to the RO water for mashing?

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So far I've been doing what the primer says, I use a little bit of bottled Spring water and a lot of RO. For example, yesterday I brewed a ~16-17 SRM Belgian Dark Strong that had 1.5 lb crystal malt (out of 14 lb total) using 6 qt Spring water + 24 qt RO water + 1.5 tsp CaCl and sparged with 8 qt RO water (never mind the strange volumes). After the last infusion (so it was a fairly thin mash @ just over 2 qt/lb) the pH was 5.43 at room temp. Post boil pH was 5.45 at room temp.

I live over in Satellite and have brewed in Brevard for quite a few years now. I lived in Palm Bay, Melbourne, Indialantic and now Satellite. They are all more or less the same and the water here is relativly soft. Everything comes from Melbourne utility.

When I brew (5-7 gal all-grain), I almost always use 5gal RO, 2.5gal spring water and the rest comes from the fridge (reg filter). I also have brewed just with spring and fridge water or RO and fridge water. Brew-wise, I always get pretty good restults no matter what combination I use.

The county (Orange) just got back to me, first via e-mail, and then over the phone (nice response).

- First, here's are the relevant numbers:

Calcium 42 mg/l
Magnesium 6.5 mg/l
Sodium 11 mg/l
Chloride 12.2 mg/l
Sulfate 0.61 mg/L
Alkalinity 135 mg/l
pH 8.0

- The water is considered "moderately hard" and alkaline.

- They test the water monthly, but there isn't a published report. However, the numbers given to me can be considered good within a fairly narrow range on a regular basis, so they can be counted on.

- I asked about a "sulfurish" smell I detect in my water. There are two possible causes: 1) The smell actually comes from the drain. To rule that out, take a glass of water to another area of the house and then smell it. 2) The water has been sitting in the pipes for a while and the chlorine has dissipated. To avoid that, turn on all the faucets of the house and flush the toilets to flush the old water out of the pipes. In my case, it's probably the latter, since I really only use one or two water faucets all the time.

- The pH of the water should not change, and if it does, very, very little, in-transit from the water processing plant to the water faucet.

This clears out a few things for me and now I'm willing to experiment with local water when the right time comes (I'm just now making the switch to AG, so intense focus on water chemistry is still a little bit away).

BoxofRain said:

My dad lives in Dr. Phillips and he told me the water is considered hard.

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It will probably depend on who the provider is, but most likely his water is the same as mine (a little south of him) and may be considered "moderately hard".

SpanishCastleAle said:

So far I've been doing what the primer says, I use a little bit of bottled Spring water and a lot of RO. For example, yesterday I brewed a ~16-17 SRM Belgian Dark Strong that had 1.5 lb crystal malt (out of 14 lb total) using 6 qt Spring water + 24 qt RO water + 1.5 tsp CaCl and sparged with 8 qt RO water (never mind the strange volumes). After the last infusion (so it was a fairly thin mash @ just over 2 qt/lb) the pH was 5.43 at room temp. Post boil pH was 5.45 at room temp.

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I've subscribed to the primer thread and will make check it out when I'm ready to experiment more with different water characteristics. For my first AG batch, I think I'll be going with my regular, bottled spring water.

My two cents.. I did some research in my area since ya'll got my curiosity up, and found this... they chlorinate it for US and they use other chems for them. I was told that they add something to clean the pipes in the water system. (holy ****) was my response and the lady said -- theres no way you'll ever know its there. I said well I do now#%$^&*@#$. She assured me that its that way EVERYWHERE. I tell ya that RO and conditioned water is sounding better and better.
Since we haven't died yet I guess its ok????

heeler said:

I was told that they add something to clean the pipes in the water system. (holy ****) was my response and the lady said -- theres no way you'll ever know its there. I said well I do now#%$^&*@#$. She assured me that its that way EVERYWHERE. I tell ya that RO and conditioned water is sounding better and better.Since we haven't died yet I guess its ok????

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Heh heh!

Indeed, they do add other things. I know they used to add Fluoride, but don't know if they still do. I'm sure some of it goes away when you boil.

Regarding the RO and conditioned water, I've reversed my stance from my last post to this thread. I've done some more research and a lot of studying and I think I'm going with the instructions provided by the primer as well. I included some calcium chloride and acidulated malt with my order for the ingredients for my next batch (I already have gypsum).

One thing is for sure, water chemistry can get quite complicated. But there is a lot of info out there that goes a long ways toward simplifying it and there are some pretty awesome spreadsheets and calculators too.

If my next beer was a dark beer, I probably wouldn't be getting too hung up on the water chemistry. OCU (Orange County Utilities) water is acceptable for darker beers (I think). Crystal Springs Natural Water seems that way too. Some adjustment would be necessary, since both have high pH, though.

However, I'm doing a light ale, so I need fairly soft water.

My tap water has chloramine instead of just chlorine and I know that they periodically switch back to chlorine because they send out a letter telling me it's going to be chlorine for a month or so. It definitely smells stronger during that time.