Looking to Try New Yeasts other than Nottingham

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ThunderPanda

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I have made a few batches of cider now with Nottingham yeast, and while I enjoy the result a lot, I think I want to find something a little less... beery. Don't get me wrong, I like beer, but I want to go for some new flavors. Nottingham ham definitely seems to leave it with a definite beer taste.

So does anyone have a yeast they love to use that is less beery? I looked at the sticky and may try one or two of the ones on there described as more fruity... I will probably mess with a couple wine or champagne yeasts too
 
The only yeast I love to death is my unnamed, no idea what the hell it is 'standard wine yeast'. Works amazing with everything I have brewed where other yeasts either get stressed out or leave wierd after tastes. That being said, this yeast is a bit more difficult to work with than others as it has virtually no response to temperature change. I can put it in the fridge and it will keep going and going and going..

I would offer to send you some, but I don't know how it would go through customs and the American post.
 
Well, in terms of cider 2 champagne yeasts that get used a lot on the forum are Red Star Montrachet and Lavin EC-1118. These are very inexpensive, ferment dry, are low foaming and seem to be very robust yeasts. I am currently using Montrachet and Nottingham and like both for what they do differently and am about to try the 1118.

In the end it mostly comes down to how you like your cider (sweet or dry) what temperature you will be fermenting in (notty likes lower ranges, 68ish, while the champagne yeast can tolerate higher 74ish) and of course what is cheap and available!
 
There are yeasts made for cider, but I think the majority of cidermakers use wine yeast. I like Cotes de Blanc and D47 dry wine yeasts. They don't ferment as dry as champagne.
 
Part question, part answer. I have only finished two brews and have loved my white labs english cider yeast over the dry mead. It seems most people on this forum do not use the English cider yeast though. Why?
I also have a batch with sweet mead that I'm real curious about. But I've not tried anything else...
 
Definitely try wyeasts cider yeast. I also have consitently good results with L-1118.

Something to keep in mind is what you are shooting for for flavor. If you want a more vinous traditional dray cider the wine/champange yeasts work great. If you let them ferment dry, they will taste more like wine than apples. You may even want to consider a malolactic fermentation (you can get a strain from your LHBS). These can occur naturally, but not if you use pasturized or store bought juice.

I am a big fan of malolactic ciders when they go well. Then again, I love backsweetening with cider and making draft ciders (like woodchuck) too. Variety is the spice of life.
 
I have only used the WL 775 Cider yeast and have been happy with it and see no reason for me to change it. from my research it really likes to age a long time and might produce less flavor than other yeasts but I add tons of crabs apples to my mix and my cider just screams apples. I don't have a clue why more people don't use it.

CM, could you describe the differences between the cider yeast and the others? Does it have more of an Apple flavor? I'd really hate to loses that that's why I won't change. I'd hate for my cider to taste like wine.
 
Not sure about this, but wyeasts cider yeast might be the same as WL cider yeast.

I would say that the cider I made from the wyeast in general, had more nuance, complexity in flavor compared to some of the other yeast strains I have used. It tough to describe exact characteristics. However when I pulled off samples of each cider when I went through them, everyone in the room picked the wyeast as the best tasting cider. I used the wyeast for a malolactic wine this year, so it has less apple and more vinous flavor. I would liken it to a Chardonnay, but lighter, like a pinot grigio. There is apple character in there, but it isn't like drinking apple juice or anything.

All that said and L-1118 was the second pick. The ciders weren't incredibly different - but you could tell one was better than the other. Same juice.

For my draft ciders and sparkling ciders/champagnes I look for an apple blast like you are describing.

I am hitting my 6 month bottling mark for wyeast cider this month, so I am going to bottle, oddly tonight I think. I am interested to know how this cider is rounding out. I just tried my new england cider and it needs at least another month or two, but it was pretty good. Just need to mellow.
 
Checkout Cville's sticky. Loads of info there. I'm a s-04 convert as a result of that thread.
 
The other thing to keep in mind is what style of cider you are trying to make - just saying this because ckville focuses on a draft or still type cider that isn't fermented dry. He cold crashes to keep residual sugar.

Point being, depending on your desired style, you may find yourself preferring different yeasts,... just like when brewing beer. So experiment a bit!
 
Thanks everyone, lot's of great suggestions here! I am definitely going to have to do plenty of experimenting!

Definitely try wyeasts cider yeast. I also have consitently good results with L-1118.

I am a big fan of malolactic ciders when they go well. Then again, I love backsweetening with cider and making draft ciders (like woodchuck) too. Variety is the spice of life.

If I had to describe one type of commercial cider that I am trying to emulate, it would be woodchuck. My past batches I have liked a lot, and are obviously sweeter, but they taste much more like a Hardcore than Woodchuck. Sweet, but beery. You mention draft ciders, what makes it a draft cider? I haven't heard anything about it in any of my research. What can you tell me about that? Or should I just search the forum and see what I can find?
 
In draft style the fermentation is stopped before it is completed leaving residual sugars and flavors. Then it is kegged and force carbonated.

My girlfriend picked up some woodchuck last night and I actually thought it was good, much better than when I tried it some 5 years ago. But it is much much to sweet for my tastes and stomach. I couldn't do any hard drinking with it because all that sugar would make me puke sooner than later. It also seems to have (not kidding) less than half the flavor of my dry cider. It makes me suspect that I might still use crabs even if I had access to true cider apples.
 
Thanks everyone, lot's of great suggestions here! I am definitely going to have to do plenty of experimenting!



If I had to describe one type of commercial cider that I am trying to emulate, it would be woodchuck. My past batches I have liked a lot, and are obviously sweeter, but they taste much more like a Hardcore than Woodchuck. Sweet, but beery. You mention draft ciders, what makes it a draft cider? I haven't heard anything about it in any of my research. What can you tell me about that? Or should I just search the forum and see what I can find?

I never get beery flavor from my ciders. Though when I started making ciders that is how I thought they all would turn out ;) Recently I have been experimenting with a semi-sweet cider with wheat malt extract, think I am going to switch to a concentrated wheat from mash. I call it "farmhand" and it is a 9.6% cider that has a malt character, geared towards a man's palate. Stronger and a dry tasting cider, but semi-sweet. Still haven't worked the recipe fully out but it is getting there. That one gets bottled, 9.6 on a draft can be deadly :)

Draft cider being as wildman described it below, or any cider that gets carbonated and would be served from a draft (tastes like a woodchuck or similar). These ciders are often put on a draft, and you can consume copious amounts of them if you are a cider drinker. Easy to make these ciders, and with middle of the road cider, you can make a very good woodchuck clone.

At my house we usually always have a draft cider of some variety that I made on one of my two taps. My wife loves them. That is her after work go to drink. My my middle of the road ciders are destined for back sweetening and force carbing.
 
Hmmmm those all sound good! I guess I have been stopping my fermentations before they complete, but I don't have a keg or anyway to force carb yet :(

And as for the "beery" taste I describe, in all honesty, I don't think it tastes beery but everyone that tastes it does. Its not grainy or hopsy or anything, I think it is just the taste of yeast. Not strong or anything, but the flavors that the yeast leave I think is what makes people say that. Either way, my ciders have it and so do ciders like Hardcore, while ciders like woodchuck do not.

Also one last thought... I drank a cider the other day called hornsby's, and I noticed that the number one ingredient was carbonated water. Are they cheating the system and just adding carbonated water before bottling? Could I do this, and just make a real strong cider, then add some concentrate and carbed water before bottling? Might be easier than any other method of getting sweet, carbonated cider
 
If you want to carb your cider, and have tremendous flexibility a keg set up is the way to go hands down. You can ferment dry, back sweeten with apple/cider concentrate, etc., and get a phenomal still cider. However you need to sulfite and sorbate it so it won't start eating the sugars again. Once you sulfite and sorbate you can't bottle carb... if you have a kegging set up you simply force carbonate.

Ciders like woodchuck hornsby, etc. They all basically add sugar to an apple juice concentrate and get high ABV cider that doesn't taste so great. Then they back sweeten with cider/juice and add water to get the ABV to 5%. You can do a very similar thing at home as I described above. However, your cider will likely have more character (if you use fresh pressed apples) - I know my ciders taste way better than woodchuck.

Keep in mind you can back sweeten with anything, so you could use pear juice, lemon juice, raspberries etc. One of my favorite draft ciders is my rasp. where I steep 24 oz of raspberries, add a touch of malic acid and sweeten with apple juice.
 
Ciders like woodchuck hornsby, etc. They all basically add sugar to an apple juice concentrate and get high ABV cider that doesn't taste so great. Then they back sweeten with cider/juice and add water to get the ABV to 5%. You can do a very similar thing at home as I described above. However, your cider will likely have more character (if you use fresh pressed apples) - I know my ciders taste way better than woodchuck.

I know you probably didn't mention this as a good way to go, but I just might! It actually sounds like it would probably work pretty well. I have lots of nottingham left over, do you think it will work fine for this process?

Also, I obviously hear a lot of people mentioning using fresh apples in their ciders. Do almost all of them grow their own apples? Or do they have an orchard where they can get them super cheap? Because If I go to the store and buy apples, I have heard I need 20lbs of apples for 1 gallon of juice. I will be lucky to get apples for $1 a pound, so thats $20+ a gallon. If I buy apple cider, its only $4 a gallon. It just isn't economical for me to purchase apples, even if it is better. I was just wondering if anyone is actually going to a Target or Walmart or grocery store and buying full priced apples for cider making
 
I've been working through different yeasts refining the taste of my ciders as well. I started with EC-1118 and let it go dry. I didn't like the flavor much, and I'm not really a dry type of person so I attempted to back sweeten but that just seemed to accentuate the funky flavors. I had let the wine sit on the lees for over two months as some of my friends do before transfer.

I next tried Nottingham and got a better tasting result, but at the same time I chose to be stupid and put in too much sugar (in this case honey). The result was a sweet wine that tastes quite good, but is very sweet, almost like a port wine to me. The FG was 1.022 when I transferred off the lees, having started somewhere north of 1.10 apparently. The wine was very drinkable directly after transfer, and has only gotten better. It will get you stupid real quick and goes down way too easy. I have to watch the consumption rate carefully. I serve it as a desert drink and it work well for that. I had a couple of batches that were variations on this theme that essentially had the same result.

My latest brews have been with Safale S-04 and about half the sugars. So far I am happy with the results. Both of the batches I have made along these lines had an FG of 1.004 to 1.006 and were nice after initial transfer. They are continuing to improve in the days since and I think this is more what I am looking for, a semi-sweet that is easy to drink without being overly sweet. The flavors really come through well without being buried by the sweetness. I know some people can taste the flavors in a dry wine but I can't. A little bit of sweetness brings the out for me, sort of like a little bit of salt brings out hidden flavors in some foods.

My only concern is I don't think the S-04 is up to fermenting a high OG must down to the semi-sweet level. From what I have read it doesn't ferment as dry as Nottingham in general. I have added yeast nutrients in the latest batches and that may be part of the success, but I am also concerned about oxygenation. With an ale yeast I think it is going to have to have a strong, vigorous fermentation to have any chance on a high ABV cider of getting it down to an FG of 1.005 or so.

Those are my wandering thoughts on the topic at hand. I encourage rebuttal so I can learn more. My ciders have improved from bilge water to enjoyable evening drink from my studies of the posts here on HBT. :mug:
 
I know you probably didn't mention this as a good way to go, but I just might! It actually sounds like it would probably work pretty well. I have lots of nottingham left over, do you think it will work fine for this process?

Also, I obviously hear a lot of people mentioning using fresh apples in their ciders. Do almost all of them grow their own apples? Or do they have an orchard where they can get them super cheap? Because If I go to the store and buy apples, I have heard I need 20lbs of apples for 1 gallon of juice. I will be lucky to get apples for $1 a pound, so thats $20+ a gallon. If I buy apple cider, its only $4 a gallon. It just isn't economical for me to purchase apples, even if it is better. I was just wondering if anyone is actually going to a Target or Walmart or grocery store and buying full priced apples for cider making

Actually i think you can make great draft cider this way - I would recc it. It is nice to have a complex cider, but it is nice to have a drinkable hot day out draft cider too. I probably drink way more draft cider than wine, and I don't mind it that way.

I grow my own and for my big pressing I buy them. Only 5 of my ~35apple trees are fully mature, so I got like 7-8 gallons of "estate" cider from my trees last year. I buy my apples wholesale from a local orchard (80 bushels, 20 of each variety). The apple pressing is a family and friends event for us, lots of fun. We fry up cider donuts freshly homemade, etc. Good times. People head home with lots of cider too.

I would skip walmart apples - the price just isn't worth it. Woudl you should do is go apple picking sometime, get some friends in on it this fall, and try to get a local orchard to cut you a deal per lb. However, doing your own pressing is something that takes equipment and time, just like any hobby :)

the orchard gets about 70 gallons per 20 bushel bin, but they have high tech equipment. I probably get about 40-50 gallons per bin. i.e. 2.5 gallons per bushel for me; 3.5 gallons per bushel for the commercial press. One bushel = ~ 45lbs.
 
I have lots of nottingham left over, do you think it will work fine for this process?

Notty cold crashes very well, which will probably get rid of the taste your friends describe as "beery". The downside is that you'll need to force carbonate - but using kegs will really cut down on time. If you're looking for something a little fruitier, try S04, Wy3056 or Wy3068.

I was just wondering if anyone is actually going to a Target or Walmart or grocery store and buying full priced apples for cider making

I hope not - If you are pressing your own, you should be looking for #2 cider grade apples, which should cost $4-8 dollars a bushel, depending on how much you buy. Make sure you get a good mix of sweet, tart and aroma apples.
 
Should have mentioned - the price I pay for #2 apples is in line with cvillekevin - I pay $4 per bushel. But I do have to buy it in single variety 20 bushel lots. AND I am at their discretion for what apples they are willing to sell. I used red delicious, gala, empire and jonagold last year and it made phenomenal sweet drinking cider (non alc.). The hard cider it made was good but not my best, but that was what apples they had, and I had to guilt trip the guy into giving me the jonagolds, which made the cider.

I am with cvillekevin though - go with a blend if at all possible. If you have to do single variety ($$ or no pals to share the cost) try mutzu (crispin) or northern spy for common american apples. I haven't made the crispin, but northern spy makes a good, albeit tart single variety.
 
One last note, you really have to taste the apples and try things to get what works. Apples grow differently depending on region. Some people swear cortlands make fantastic hard cider,... not in NY they don't....
 
Hmmmm well I guess I might have to get some bushels in the fall!

So another question for you about cold crashing... So I typically add a bit of sugar to my brews at the beginning, get OG up to about 1.065. Then it ferments for a week and a half or two, gets down to about 1.015/1.020. What would be the best thing after this? Should I:

A: Cold crash, let sit in the fridge in the primary for a couple days, add sorbate, then rack and bring back inside to normal temps, repeat process if desired and eventually bottle

OR

B: Cold Crash, Leave in fridge a couple days, rack, leave it there some more and repeat for a while, finally adding preservatives just before bottling

Is there any need to bring it back in once I have cold crashed? Or does that not serve a purpose?
 
One last note, you really have to taste the apples and try things to get what works. Apples grow differently depending on region. Some people swear cortlands make fantastic hard cider,... not in NY they don't....

Of the very few trees I know the names of cortland was one and it makes a terrible cider here in North Dakota as well, sweet sixteen was equally terrible.

Panda, I don't own any trees and the nearest orchard is 150 miles away in Minnesota. Probably some where near you. I've found most small towns in the upper Midwest have tons of backyard Apple trees going to waste every fall. I'm not shy so I go pound doors down asking if they want clean up the mess the trees are going to make. 9 times out of 10 they let me have all I want. If there not home ill leave a note asking the same and am suprised at how many times they call back. I also post on the local internet classifieds and put flyers up at the super market and they find me. A couple of parks also have trees and crabs and you can pick without asking. I could make 500 gallons a year easy and never pay for an Apple. It also helps my flavor since I have 30 plus varieties in the mix. Get creative and you might get all the apples you ever want. You should also research orchards in your area. There might be a couple.

The downside to pressing your own is the equipment is not cheap. I had to buy a press and build a grinder and will have to build a big press this summer to get the capacity that I desire.
 
Of the very few trees I know the names of cortland was one and it makes a terrible cider here in North Dakota as well, sweet sixteen was equally terrible.

Panda, I don't own any trees and the nearest orchard is 150 miles away in Minnesota. Probably some where near you. I've found most small towns in the upper Midwest have tons of backyard Apple trees going to waste every fall. I'm not shy so I go pound doors down asking if they want clean up the mess the trees are going to make. 9 times out of 10 they let me have all I want. If there not home ill leave a note asking the same and am suprised at how many times they call back. I also post on the local internet classifieds and put flyers up at the super market and they find me. A couple of parks also have trees and crabs and you can pick without asking. I could make 500 gallons a year easy and never pay for an Apple. It also helps my flavor since I have 30 plus varieties in the mix. Get creative and you might get all the apples you ever want. You should also research orchards in your area. There might be a couple.

The downside to pressing your own is the equipment is not cheap. I had to buy a press and build a grinder and will have to build a big press this summer to get the capacity that I desire.

Thanks for the advice! And I definitely have orchards all around me, there is one literally like 1/5 of a mile down my road. Plus I do have a few apple trees in my yard. I think there are a couple granny smiths, a crab apple, and then there is this one type that produces small but delicious sweet apples so thick that its branches break off. It can only really do it every couple years because it has to spend the next year recovering
 
If you use a yeast that flocculates at low temps, dont add nutrient and are careful with your siphoning, then you dont need to add chemicals to stabilize the cider at room temp. Cold crashing does take a bit of practice, but its not complicated

In Virginia, Cortland makes a pretty good base apple for a mix - mixed with a tart and aroma apple. I wouldnt try to ferment it on its own tho.
 
If you use a yeast that flocculates at low temps, dont add nutrient and are careful with your siphoning, then you dont need to add chemicals to stabilize the cider at room temp. Cold crashing does take a bit of practice, but its not complicated

In Virginia, Cortland makes a pretty good base apple for a mix - mixed with a tart and aroma apple. I wouldnt try to ferment it on its own tho.

And this speaks right to my point - I have had decent hard cider from cortland's as a base apple in more southern regions, but here I tried a similar blend (one of my neighbors has a bunch of cortlands) it just didn't do much for me. i.e. you have to play with your apples at home. Unless you have a tried and true like a kingston black (if you do share the wealth!) Another example is the cox pippin - probably UK's most prevalent and popular dessert apple. Here, it looks different and tastes different (still good), due to the extra sunlight it gets here (the grower from eves cidery was schooling me on this stuff a while back when I was choosing my apple tree).

scavenging for apples is a great tactic - my neighbor does that. I should do that but it does take time and we have done so much work on our house I couldn't do that last year. However if you have the time ;)
 
Regarding orchards. They are everywhere. If you have some locally then go local. In Boston, I picked some out of street side trees and one on the property of my hospital/employer. It was probably one of the original Roxbury Russets as it was located in Roxbury, MA. Now I have a local orchard and will try another in the fall. I have my own planted but expect maybe 3-4 apples this year. In future years, I will get bushels but have to let the grow first. I have also discovered the neighborhood crap apples and am actually going to graft some scion wood to one of the neighborhood crabs today. I've also asked property owners from some of their apples. This fall I plan on canning or freezing extra juice. So basically, don't be shy, apples are everywhere.
Scott
 
Regarding orchards. They are everywhere. If you have some locally then go local. In Boston, I picked some out of street side trees and one on the property of my hospital/employer. It was probably one of the original Roxbury Russets as it was located in Roxbury, MA. Now I have a local orchard and will try another in the fall. I have my own planted but expect maybe 3-4 apples this year. In future years, I will get bushels but have to let the grow first. I have also discovered the neighborhood crap apples and am actually going to graft some scion wood to one of the neighborhood crabs today. I've also asked property owners from some of their apples. This fall I plan on canning or freezing extra juice. So basically, don't be shy, apples are everywhere.
Scott

Scott - I plan on getting into grafting next year as well - very cool to hear you are doing this too. For my mini orchard I still want a couple crab apple trees and a few more english varieities, but I am going to wait and see what trees do well before I buy more of certian types.

Cummins Nursey is a great resource for english and all other varieties. They sell rootstock for grafting as well as the trees. Getting the english varieties often requires a phone call and a favor from them (companies have been buying out the entire stock of cider varieties lately - they usually will break a bundle to sell you a few).

I planted two roxbury russets this year - how are the apples? I actually have never had one.

Most of my apple rootstock is M7, because that was what was available. I also am trying some G30 (very excited about this one) and I two G11/m111 interstems that I am interested to see how they work out.

I recommend freezing the juice over canning - it tastes almost as fresh as fresh pressed when you thaw it.
 
roxbury russets are kinda tangy and a little tart. Still an eating apple (barely for my taste) but they make absolutely incredible cooking apples. The tangy-ness is offset by all the sugar you add to any cooking and makes them absolutely incredible. Of course I am assuming they were roxbury russets. The apples fit the description and the location very fit the description. My golden and roxbury russets will probably produce this year and will probably go into an apple cake.
Grafting was easier than I thought but the final word will be if my grafts grow. I used this place. http://www.maplevalleyorchards.com/Pages/Home.aspx Tony was incredible. He might respond to an email but if you get him on the phone, its like talking to an encyclopedia of grafting. I grafted cox orange pippens and yarlington mill on one crab on my property and both varieties on a crab down the road I have adopted. Hopefully they work.
 
I had good success with the rootstock from Cummins Nursery. Made about 30 trees 4 years ago (could have been 5 years ago actually, loosing track of time). The scions came from a very old tree at my folks places that throws early apples (august) that are nice and tart. I'm hoping to get some apples this year from the new trees but I'm not seeing signs of flowers yet so we'll see.

The parent tree has loads of blossoms ready to burst but we've been getting hammered year after year by the winter moth. We're going to spray this year but its a real battle as they have invaded with vigor. I'm hoping to make some cider from the apples this summer. I've got about 30 gallons in 5 gallon batches under my belt with about a 50% success rate thusly.

For what its worth, Tower Hill Botanical Garden http://www.towerhillbg.org/ in Boylston, MA has been collecting and cultivating old varieties from throughout New England for quite a while now. People can call them if they spot a really old tree and they'll investigate and propogate it if they think its an ancient cultivar. I've walked through the orchard and its super cool, some trees date back to the 1600's as their origin. I've called to inquire about scions and they sell them during pruning time in late winter.
 
Sashurlow, I meant to ask if you have had any concerns regarding contamination in the apples? I know I probably sound like a chicken but thats the first thing that comes to mind when I see apples here close to the city. I'm over in Medford and along the Mystic there are a lot of great apple trees that gush with fruit in the fall but I've been afraid of lead and other toxins. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I need to stop being a chicken and go for it.
 
roxbury russets are kinda tangy and a little tart. Still an eating apple (barely for my taste) but they make absolutely incredible cooking apples. The tangy-ness is offset by all the sugar you add to any cooking and makes them absolutely incredible. Of course I am assuming they were roxbury russets. The apples fit the description and the location very fit the description. My golden and roxbury russets will probably produce this year and will probably go into an apple cake.
Grafting was easier than I thought but the final word will be if my grafts grow. I used this place. http://www.maplevalleyorchards.com/Pages/Home.aspx Tony was incredible. He might respond to an email but if you get him on the phone, its like talking to an encyclopedia of grafting. I grafted cox orange pippens and yarlington mill on one crab on my property and both varieties on a crab down the road I have adopted. Hopefully they work.

Thanks for the tip - much appreciated. This year I bought and put in 2 Yarlingtons, 4 kingston blacks, 2 rox, 2 orange pippin, 2 frequin rouge for the english varieties (now I have 35 ish trees growing, 5 mature). My plan is, see how they fair and try grafting for some more Kingston blacks and Yarlington Mill, and any others I like and are doing well on my mini orchard.

Wish I could fast forward 5 years.
 
Sashurlow, I meant to ask if you have had any concerns regarding contamination in the apples? I know I probably sound like a chicken but thats the first thing that comes to mind when I see apples here close to the city. I'm over in Medford and along the Mystic there are a lot of great apple trees that gush with fruit in the fall but I've been afraid of lead and other toxins. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I need to stop being a chicken and go for it.

Why would there be lead in the apples?
 
Well, I dunno. I hear its not good practice to plan vegetables in the ground here in cities because of both lead paint contamination but also lead contamination left over from the days of leaded gas.
 
Well, I dunno. I hear its not good practice to plan vegetables in the ground here in cities because of both lead paint contamination but also lead contamination left over from the days of leaded gas.

Interesting, I never heard that - not saying it isn't a valid concern. I would guess though, the lead would be long gone deep into the soil by now. But I am just some dude on the internet :)
 
As a contractor I had to take epa approved lead safety course so I can speak with some authority on this subject. Lead in fruit bodies such as apples is very rare. It's main concern is in root and leaf crops. Lead from automobile exhaust and paint chips falls pretty much straight down and stays there pretty much forever so as long as its not within a couple of feet of a road or a pre 1978 building your generally safe. Also if your well nourished adult lead is not readily absorbed until you reach high concentrations. Your body won't try to use lead unless your body is depleted of essential minerals. Children under 6 are at the highest risk and they usually get it from chewing on window sills or crawling through construction debris then putting their hands in their mouths.

I have a son that is nearly 2 and if I get dirty ripping into an old house ill remove my clothes before I go inside my house but wouldn't hesitate to give him my fresh pressed juice and all the trees I pick from are within city limits.
 
Wildman, great info! I should have taken that lead class but never did. No longer contracting so just as well. This opens a world of opportunity ;)
 
So, I am thinking of using safale s-04 for my next batch. Where do people usually get this? i don't have a brew store nearby, and I can't find it on the midwest supplies site. I found it other places but it seems to be fairly highly priced... Is there somewhere where it's cheaper?
 
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