feedback on American amber recipe

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Labguy64

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i am trying to make an American amber ale
I used the recipator to come up with this:
Brewer: Fat ***** Brewin
Beer: Andy's American Ale Style: American ale
Type: Extract w/grain Size: 5.5 gallons
Color:
18 HCU (~11 SRM)
Bitterness: 24 IBU
OG: 1.070 FG: 1.019
Alcohol: 6.6% v/v (5.1% w/w)
Grain: 1 lb. Dextrine malt (Cara-Pils)
1 lb. American crystal 40L
Steep: bring 3.5 gallons of water to 160° Steep specialty grains at 156°-160° for 45 minutes.
Remove grain bag. Bring pot to a boil.
Boil: 60 minutes SG 1.128 3 gallons
6 lb. Light malt extract
3 lb. Light dry malt extract
At start of boil add 1 oz Cascade hops. At 30 minutes add malt extracts. At 15 minutes add 2 oz
Amarillo hops.
Hops: 1 oz. Cascade (6% AA, 60 min.)
2 oz. Amarillo (8% AA, 15 min.)
Yeast: Wyeast London Ale III-1318 smack-pack
Carbonation: 3.0 volumes Corn Sugar: 6.31 oz. for 5.5 gallons @ 68°F

I am shooting for a sweet malty ale. I think this should have a nice caramel flavor. Since this is my first recipe I was hoping for opinions on whether I am going overboard on the sweet. Also I heard you can get a butterscotch note from this yeast. Is it from ferment temps?
 
My first thought is: do you need the Cara-Pils?

I don't know about butterscotch (diacetyl) from that yeast. It would definitely be out of place in a beer with Cascade and Amarillo.
 
I've heard that adding cara-pils to extract recipes doesn't work very well because the starch doesn't convert fully, but I don't have personal experience with that.

Also, you need to have some extract in the boil for the 60min addition. I usually do 3lbs (for a 3gal boil) extract at beginning of boil, and the rest at the end. This allows proper hops utilization. Too much or too little and it changes how the hops are used.

Also with an OG of 1.070 you should consider pitching two smack-packs or making a starter.

Finally I might use the amarillo as bittering and the cascade as aroma, but I'd bet either way would work.

Otherwise looks good to me!
 
No need for cara-pils, there should already be enough in the extract.

I agree with damdaman, I'd put in the DME at the start and the rest at the end and use 2 packs or a starter. Actually, IMO I'd just use Fermentis S-04 instead to make it easier and get a similar beer.
 
damdaman said:
I've heard that adding cara-pils to extract recipes doesn't work very well because the starch doesn't convert fully, but I don't have personal experience with that.

Also, you need to have some extract in the boil for the 60min addition. I usually do 3lbs (for a 3gal boil) extract at beginning of boil, and the rest at the end. This allows proper hops utilization. Too much or too little and it changes how the hops are used.

Also with an OG of 1.070 you should consider pitching two smack-packs or making a starter.

Finally I might use the amarillo as bittering and the cascade as aroma, but I'd bet either way would work.

Otherwise looks good to me!
Click to expand...

All sounds good. I was only adding the cara-pils because I thought it was supposed to add body and help the head. I don't know anything about hops from experience. I read about the flavor profiles on another site. Why would you swap the two?
 
dcp27 said:
No need for cara-pils, there should already be enough in the extract.

I agree with damdaman, I'd put in the DME at the start and the rest at the end and use 2 packs or a starter. Actually, IMO I'd just use Fermentis S-04 instead to make it easier and get a similar beer.
Click to expand...

I only chose that yeast because of my LHBS. :mug:
 
Amarillo has a slightly mandarin flavour. Cascade has a more grapefruit flavour. Amarillo may be often used more for bittering but only because it has a higher aa and therefore you use less. Either can be used for either - it depends what you want in the flavour profile. Too much amarillo in flavour additions may need some conditioning to settle out but it is a delicious hop.

You'll get plenty of body with crystal malt and all extract. However cara-pils supposedly aids in head retention. Maybe drop out a smidge of the crystal and replace with some carapils so you have both but in reduced amounts. I can't distinguish how much a pound is (metric here) so I'll leave the actual amounts to you.

Personal taste is personal taste but I think with an FG that high and an IBU that low, that you will get a brew that is too sweet and a bit cloying. Sweet and malty is one thing but over the top extract brews aren't that nice. You can either up the bittering hops a little to balance or (my preferred method) would be to back off a little on the extract, add a touch of dextrose (maybe 250 grams or the imperial equivalent) and make sure you aerate the wort.

Also with an OG that high, you should really make a good size starter or pitch two packs (expensive).

Diacetyl can diminish if you raise the temps in the latter part of fermentation so I guess if you ferment low-ish and don't condition the beer on the yeast cake for too long, then you might retain some. Whether or not that's a good thing will be up to you - I'm not sure how it would go with cascade.
 
manticle said:
Amarillo has a slightly mandarin flavour. Cascade has a more grapefruit flavour. Amarillo may be often used more for bittering but only because it has a higher aa and therefore you use less. Either can be used for either - it depends what you want in the flavour profile. Too much amarillo in flavour additions may need some conditioning to settle out but it is a delicious hop.

You'll get plenty of body with crystal malt and all extract. However cara-pils supposedly aids in head retention. Maybe drop out a smidge of the crystal and replace with some carapils so you have both but in reduced amounts. I can't distinguish how much a pound is (metric here) so I'll leave the actual amounts to you.

Personal taste is personal taste but I think with an FG that high and an IBU that low, that you will get a brew that is too sweet and a bit cloying. Sweet and malty is one thing but over the top extract brews aren't that nice. You can either up the bittering hops a little to balance or (my preferred method) would be to back off a little on the extract, add a touch of dextrose (maybe 250 grams or the imperial equivalent) and make sure you aerate the wort.

Also with an OG that high, you should really make a good size starter or pitch two packs (expensive).

Diacetyl can diminish if you raise the temps in the latter part of fermentation so I guess if you ferment low-ish and don't condition the beer on the yeast cake for too long, then you might retain some. Whether or not that's a good thing will be up to you - I'm not sure how it would go with cascade.[/ QUOTE]
Wow. Thanks for the detail. Since I am using amounts available at my LHBS, I would probably up the IBUs. I'm not sure what would be a good balance because I have no idea what this will taste like. I guess I can up the bittering addition by a few points. (5?)
Click to expand...
 
Perceived bitterness and perceived sweetness are related to each other. One way to look at it is in regard to the ratio between gravity and bitterness.

For example - a beer that sits at 50 IBU but starts high and finishes high (say 1080 - 1025)might taste much sweeter than a 1040 30 IBU that finishes at 1010. When designing a recipe it can be a good idea to look at recommended BU/GU ratio ranges (bittering units: gravity units). They are a guide only - anyone can make whatever beer they want and style guidelines can be restrictive if you place too much emphasis on them but if you recognise they are guidelines rather than rules you can use them to your advantage.

Check this link for a rundown:http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html

Don't worry too much at this point about the formulae and maths - just get a basic understanding of the principle. IBU as a measurement is only useful to a point - that's why some big beers like Russian Imperial Souts and barley Wines are hopped to crazy amounts (besides possibly the preservative qualities of hops helping with ageing).
 
That is a very interesting site. I did get into the math. i am kind of an Excel nerd. This gives me a much better guess at what I am trying to do. I am probably going to up the IBUs to about 33. I know that is still on the sweet side but still closer to "balanced".:mug:
 

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