Questions - Anyone Brew an Eisbock?

So, I've been homebrewing for a few years now, pretty basic stuff, but over the past few months I've gotten much more involved in more experimental brews and techniques.

Anyway, I'm thinking of trying to brew a strong dark Belgian ale, something with a lot of dark fruit character, that I can freeze and seperate like an Eisbock, which (hopefully) will yield something reminiscent of a beer comparable to a Tawny Port (after decent aging).

Have any of you attempted Eisbock's or other frozen, separated beers before? What were the results? Any advice moving forward?

Most important, how much did freezing the beer increase the ABV? How much did it reduce the overall quantity?

I just want to get an idea of what I'm up against before I put the time and effort necessary into the brew.

Here is a link to BYO that explains that of a 5 gallon dopplebock, you end with about 3.5 gallons after the freezing process.

http://***********/stories/recipes/article/indices/51-recipe-exchange/596-eisbock

I've heard two arguments on this, but AFIAK, you are condensing beer that has legally been brewed, and it's no longer considered distilling, but condensing, and therefore is legal. May vary from state to state.

I saw a video from the 'Basic Brewing' guys on this very process, using a Barleywine....



Now if you can make a Kulmbacher.... I would consider you a brewing god....

FWIW, an "interview" (James followed up) with a rep from the appropriate governing body (not ATF anymore) on Basic Brewing Radio, performing techniques (condensing/skimming) to make an eisbock is NOT illegal.

jollytim said:

Here is a link to BYO that explains that of a 5 gallon dopplebock, you end with about 3.5 gallons after the freezing process.

http://***********/stories/recipes/article/indices/51-recipe-exchange/596-eisbock

I've heard two arguments on this, but AFIAK, you are condensing beer that has legally been brewed, and it's no longer considered distilling, but condensing, and therefore is legal. May vary from state to state.

I saw a video from the 'Basic Brewing' guys on this very process, using a Barleywine....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnR4trUKVo&feature=player_embedded

Now if you can make a Kulmbacher.... I would consider you a brewing god....

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! I never even thought that freezing/separating could be considered distilling. I'll have to check out the laws, but NY generally has pretty lax beer/wine laws compared to other states. Either or, I'm not looking to sell it, this is just for personal use so I'm not overly concerned.

In terms of the Kulmbacher, I've never been able to find it, but I've heard epic things about it. I consider myself a decent brewer, but I am far from skilled enough to make a home rendition of something of that quality. I'm great with flavor combos, but my actual techniques are still mediocre at best. I do whacky **** like freeze and condense my beer mostly because it hides my imperfections and gives people the impression that I'm better than I am.

If the recipe works out well I'll post it in the database (might be the first Eisbock on the site, I couldn't find any others). I'm shooting for 16% ABV that'll be bottled in 6.3 oz. mini champagne bottles. It works out to the equivalent of 1 shot per bottle, so it'll be easy to regulate something so potent and not go overboard. I'm sure it'll take a damn decade to age and mellow, though.

We shall see.

Thanks again for the info.

Reviving this thread for another question in the same topic.

When you freeze and separate a beer, like an Eisbock, does it minimize the effects of the hops or emphasize them? I know the finished product focuses the malt and sugar, making them more impactful. Does the same thing happen to the hops? Will a bitter beer be increased in bitterness by this freezing technique or will the bitterness be downplayed by the higher sugar content?

I'm just trying to figure out exactly how to hop a beer like this without the end result being obnoxiously bitter or sweet.

From my experience, it actually minimizes them. Bitter beers become more sweet.

jollytim said:

From my experience, it actually minimizes them. Bitter beers become more sweet.

Click to expand...

Okay, awesome. That's what I expected, just because of how much more focused the sugars from the malt are, but I was thrown off by the video posted above, where the guy mentions the hop intensity of the barleywine.

Okay, that's for the info.

Did you do this to the Belgian brew? If so...how did it turn out?

Mrcrowley269 said:

Did you do this to the Belgian brew? If so...how did it turn out?

Click to expand...

This is an old thread, and the poster before you hasn't posted on this forum for more than a year. You probably won't hear back from him.

I just checked my fermenter downstairs and my probe was not reading properly and the temp dropped below freezing. I now have two frozen kegs. One is a maibock, so it would be possible to make it an eisbock, but I am not sure how to proceed. Should I thaw it completely? Should I thaw it partially and transfer, resulting in an eisbock?

For freeze condensing you need to have beer that has just begun to freeze so you can skim off the ice crystals which should be nearly free of alcohol so that what is left has most of the alcohol left in it. If you are careful and repeat the process, you can increase the alcohol percentage by quite a bit. Starting with frozen beer may be more difficult. You might be able to separate the alcohol as it thaws though. Try collecting the first runoff to melt and test the gravity with your hydrometer. If it is lower than the FG when kegged, you have been successful.

sbrasfield said:

I just checked my fermenter downstairs and my probe was not reading properly and the temp dropped below freezing. I now have two frozen kegs. One is a maibock, so it would be possible to make it an eisbock, but I am not sure how to proceed. Should I thaw it completely? Should I thaw it partially and transfer, resulting in an eisbock?

Click to expand...

Try doing both partially thaw and bottle a couple then thaw the rest?

It's a very old topic but maybe someone can help me. I'm planning to do an Eis-Barley Wine. Is it supposed to be uncarbonated? I can't keg, so if I want it carbed I have to rely on the residual yeast but:

1) Is there enough yeast after freezing beer?
2) Can yeast survive such a concentration of alcohol?
3) If I repitch yeast for carbonatation, will it be able to make it? Maybe with champagne yeast?

Thank you for your help!

luis.salas said:

1) Is there enough yeast after freezing beer?

Click to expand...

No.

2) Can yeast survive such a concentration of alcohol?

Click to expand...

Not really, especially after having been frozen.

3) If I repitch yeast for carbonatation, will it be able to make it? Maybe with champagne yeast?

Click to expand...

If you're aiming for an ABV>20% then refermentation in the bottle is very difficult if not impossible to achieve. Most likely the latter.

luis.salas said:

It's a very old topic but maybe someone can help me. I'm planning to do an Eis-Barley Wine. Is it supposed to be uncarbonated? I can't keg, so if I want it carbed I have to rely on the residual yeast but:

1) Is there enough yeast after freezing beer?
2) Can yeast survive such a concentration of alcohol?
3) If I repitch yeast for carbonatation, will it be able to make it? Maybe with champagne yeast?

Thank you for your help!

Click to expand...

You will need to re-yeast, depending on the final ABV, some will work, some won't, but with home methods, you sure will find a strain that can do the job, don't expect your beer to reach 30% or anything that extreme

luis.salas said:

It's a very old topic but maybe someone can help me. I'm planning to do an Eis-Barley Wine. Is it supposed to be uncarbonated? I can't keg, so if I want it carbed I have to rely on the residual yeast but:

1) Is there enough yeast after freezing beer?
2) Can yeast survive such a concentration of alcohol?
3) If I repitch yeast for carbonatation, will it be able to make it? Maybe with champagne yeast?

Thank you for your help!

Click to expand...

If you put it in a 2L bottle, then get the following gizmo with some CO2 cartridges, you can force-carbonate it pretty easily without investing in a bunch of kegging equipment. It's $12. Shake the crap out of it while squirting CO2 in there and you'll have instant carbonation.

Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XY7HQ8N/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_LByMFbPJZH1F0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

passedpawn said:

If you put it in a 2L bottle, then get the following gizmo with some CO2 cartridges, you can force-carbonate it pretty easily without investing in a bunch of kegging equipment. It's $12. Shake the crap out of it while squirting CO2 in there and you'll have instant carbonation.

Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XY7HQ8N/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_LByMFbPJZH1F0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1



View attachment 704315View attachment 704316

Click to expand...

AMAZING! Thanks!