First Mead

So, bought 12 lbs of local honey the other day to try my hand at a simple mead. Mixed it in with 5 gals of water, and a pack of wyeast sweet mead.

Admittingly I didn't do much research before hand, just enough to understand the process.

Couple questions, I had the honey mixed with the water really well, now I notice the bulk of the honey over the past few days has settled to the bottom of the carboy. I'm assuming this is normal but just want to make sure. Also, about how long is good to ferment? 6 mos, 1 yr? Lastly, what can I expect my FG to be around? It started at 1.098 and I'm assuming the sweet yeast would end higher than a dry yeast? Sorry for the basic questions.

It's a little odd that your honey settled out like that. My last couple of batches have stayed in solution.

Your fermentation can take about twice as long as a typical beer ferment. Since you didn't add any nutrients to what is basically a nutrient poor solution you could end up with a fermentation time 3-4 times as long. So, 8 weeks wouldn't be a real surprise with what your fermenting.

You would need to check your yeast strain, but my meads usually finish at about 1.000.

The really long part of making mead is the conditioning. You'd want to let it age for at least 6 months before drinking. A year or more is better.

DoubleAught said:

So, bought 12 lbs of local honey the other day to try my hand at a simple mead. Mixed it in with 5 gals of water, and a pack of wyeast sweet mead.

Admittingly I didn't do much research before hand, just enough to understand the process.

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In truth, minimal research would have given you a basic understanding of fermentation generally, but not so much of the issues that fermenting honey can raise.....

For instance, if you'd researched that yeast, you'd find that it can be finicky as hell. It's known for being problematic with both not starting or causing stuck ferments - it's actually just about the lowest tolerance yeasts I've heard of suggested for meads - it's tolerant to 11% ABV.

A general view of it, is that if you get a reasonable result with it, then that's great, well done, but it's a bigger PITA than it's worth (their dry mead yeast has a much better reputation - but either way, it's just marketing bollocks. How in hells name do they know what yeast strains were originally used when there was little to no understanding of yeasts etc more than about 150 years ago - so to market this/these as "mead" yeasts isn't very helpful).

Couple questions, I had the honey mixed with the water really well, now I notice the bulk of the honey over the past few days has settled to the bottom of the carboy. I'm assuming this is normal but just want to make sure. Also, about how long is good to ferment? 6 mos, 1 yr? Lastly, what can I expect my FG to be around? It started at 1.098 and I'm assuming the sweet yeast would end higher than a dry yeast? Sorry for the basic questions.

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Honey obviously not mixed in as well as you'd thought. I prefer the "no heat" methods of mixing, as heating can cause loss of aromatics etc. Even if the honey I'm using is crystalised, I just weigh out the amount to be used, then add the water to target volume and leave it alone over night - as that helps to start the dissolving. Then I will use a brewers stirring paddle to mix it in so that the crystals separate out - as if it's got sugar crystals floating in it, then I blitz the hell out of it with a sanitised stick blender. sometimes for 5 minutes or longer - it tends to dissolve the crystals and incorporates the honey completely so it doesn't settle out.

The settling out isn't so much of a problem as the yeast should sort that out, but it can create or give incorrect gravity readings.

Presuming the start of 1.098, a gravity drop of 81 points represents almost exactly 11% ABV - and if your ferment is successful, though would give you an FG of 1.017 which is about the "medium sweet" area. Of course, alcohol tolerance figures are usually worked out with grape musts for wine yeasts, but I couldn't say how they arrived at the 11% tolerance for the sweet mead yeast (the same named but different manufacturer one from White Labs i.e. WL sweet mead yeast, is tolerant to about 15% so I'd guess it's a different strain).

There's no real info about the length of time for a ferment. Some mix musts up and get huge gravity drops in a week, with the last part of the drop to the FG taking a couple more weeks, whereas if you read up about "show meads" (just honey, water and yeast), they can take a very long time, as they're basically under-nourished traditionals, that often end up very sweet as the yeast get to a point where they can't ferment any more as there's no nitrogen or trace elements that the yeast need to do their job fully.

And you make no mention of any nutrients, energiser or other such materials, so unless you're aiming for a show mead, I'd suggest something like FermaidK (or FermaidO), fermax, or something like that (they tend to be tan/biege in colour and look like powder - as opposed to DAP/di-ammonium phosphate, which is also marketed as yeast nutrient but looks like white crystals - the Fermaid/Fermax type is better if you wanted to only use one, but if you like the idea of mixed nutrient, then both are needed. Regular suggested mix is 2 parts fermaid/fermax (tan powder) to 1 part DAP (white crystals) and at 1 teaspoon per gallon, is what the labels often say.

Thanks for the information! I made it Saturday night and noticed signs of fermentation Monday, then yesterday it looked like it was certainly coming into it. I did not add any nutrient, other than what wyeast includes in their pack. That will be something I'll look into for the next batch. I'm pretty excited to try this!

You'll need to think of it sooner rather than later otherwise you'll get a stuckie....

If the local HBS only does, mainly, the WYeast liquid yeasts then if they mainly keep the wyeast nutrient, that'll do the job. I'd suggest that Fermaidk would be better as its easier to get the data and calculate total nitrogen additions but the wyeast would do just as well at the recommended dose to start with......

fatbloke said:

You'll need to think of it sooner rather than later otherwise you'll get a stuckie....

If the local HBS only does, mainly, the WYeast liquid yeasts then if they mainly keep the wyeast nutrient, that'll do the job. I'd suggest that Fermaidk would be better as its easier to get the data and calculate total nitrogen additions but the wyeast would do just as well at the recommended dose to start with......

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Thanks fatbloke! I ordered nutrient and an energizer in case they decided to sleep before I get the nutrient in there. Should have them in a couple days.

Did you follow FB advice and stir the snot out of it again, honey does not separate unless you didnt stit in it well enough. I just use a drill mounted stirrer, much easier than a big spoon. So what kind of local honey did you get, light colored, dark, clover, wildflower? WVMJ

WVMJ said:

Did you follow FB advice and stir the snot out of it again, honey does not separate unless you didnt stit in it well enough. I just use a drill mounted stirrer, much easier than a big spoon. So what kind of local honey did you get, light colored, dark, clover, wildflower? WVMJ

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Yes, and I ordered a drill mounted stirrer. It was local clover honey

I actually had to go out and buy a cheapo drill at XMart, my real drill was so fast on the lowest setting I was always taking a shower in juice, the cheapo 20 dollar drill screams at its highest setting and is just right, it cant get the surf to go up to the lip. Just FYI in case you really crank it up the first time WVMJ

WVMJ said:

I actually had to go out and buy a cheapo drill at XMart, my real drill was so fast on the lowest setting I was always taking a shower in juice, the cheapo 20 dollar drill screams at its highest setting and is just right, it cant get the surf to go up to the lip. Just FYI in case you really crank it up the first time WVMJ

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Haha...thanks. I have a good and cheapo, now I know which one to use.

So when I get the mixer should I try to mix up the honey again, or am I running a chance of oxidation now that it's fermenting?

That shouldn't be to big of a problem at this stage. Your fermentation should still be producing a fair amount of co2. Since that's heavier then air if you stir it up without tipping the bottle to much you should be mostly mixing in the co2 layer on top of the must with the must. Probably not enough oxygen to be noticeable.

The stirring is also a good idea for your brew anyway. Lots of dissolved co2 should come out of solution. Co2 isn't good for yeast, so in a nutrient poor solution like mead it's best to remove it if it's reasonable to do so. I can't remember where anymore, but I read an article indicating that most commercial meaderies degass continually while the mead is fermenting.

Leadgolem said:

That shouldn't be to big of a problem at this stage. Your fermentation should still be producing a fair amount of co2. Since that's heavier then air if you stir it up without tipping the bottle to much you should be mostly mixing in the co2 layer on top of the must with the must. Probably not enough oxygen to be noticeable.

The stirring is also a good idea for your brew anyway. Lots of dissolved co2 should come out of solution. Co2 isn't good for yeast, so in a nutrient poor solution like mead it's best to remove it if it's reasonable to do so. I can't remember where anymore, but I read an article indicating that most commercial meaderies degass continually while the mead is fermenting.

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Ok, sounds good! Thanks!

I followed fatblokes advice, I added yeast nutrient (and energizer since it'd been a few days). I used a drill mixer on slow speed and mixed up the separated honey and nutrient, then a couple days later I added more nutrient. It really worked, the must is going nuts with fermentation now. Thanks fatbloke for the advice, I think you saved my mead!

DoubleAught said:

I followed fatblokes advice, I added yeast nutrient (and energizer since it'd been a few days). I used a drill mixer on slow speed and mixed up the separated honey and nutrient, then a couple days later I added more nutrient. It really worked, the must is going nuts with fermentation now. Thanks fatbloke for the advice, I think you saved my mead!

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Nah, just pointed you in the right direction in a timely fashion......

Beer makers have good understanding of the various bits of the process but what with beers being more likely to experience problems (low alcohol levels so no preservative effect and residual parts of ingredients that are sensitive to oxidation, hops, malt, etc etc).

Yet they often don't quite "get" the seemingly more laid back approach that honey allows us to take.

So it certainly wasn't saving a batch, just a little suggestion to prevent possible problems......

Keep us informed how it gets on, especially as you seem to be managing well with that bloody awful sweet mead yeast.......

fatbloke said:

Keep us informed how it gets on, especially as you seem to be managing well with that bloody awful sweet mead yeast.......

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Absolutely, will do!

fatbloke said:

Beer makers have good understanding of the various bits of the process

Yet they often don't quite "get" the seemingly more laid back approach that honey allows us to take.

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Having done both (about a dozen batches of beer, 1 and 1/2 batches of mead---a medium-sweet one that's been in bottles for 6 months and a dry one that's a couple months into fermentation/bulk conditioning), I find it pretty amazing how different the processes are considering how much the same they are.

With the beer, there is a ton of fiddly business---brew day is a long affair with tons of sanitizing and cooking. For mead, it's simple. I do a heating but no-boil method, and it takes something like an hour start to finish, including clean-up.

However, I worry a lot less about the fermentation on the beer. Once it's pitched, I keep an eye on it for clogged blow-off hoses, but it's pretty much going to take care of itself. For the mead, however, I follow the staggered nutrient methods and it involves quite a bit of work over the first 2-3 days.

For the mead, it seems there's less to worry about with oxidation and so on, but there's also less to hide behind in the end. The hops and malt flavors in the beer give you some margin for error. For the mead, I shoot for pretty delicate flavors (no metheglins or any of that business), so getting a clean fermentation is pretty important.

Anyway, I find it pretty fascinating. Maybe I'm just weird, though.

Zeg, how does a staggers nutrient schedule create a lot of work? Are you starting your mead in a bucket or carboy? In a bucket you just measure a little nutrient, open the bucket and stir it in, you should be stirring anyway so it shouldnt be too much extra effort for something that really makes a big difference. You shouldnt need to heat your honey at all unless its crystalized, and even then a drill stirrer puts even the crystalized honey right into suspension. Good luck with your half mead WVMJ

Compared to beer, where you don't have to do anything post-pitch, it's more effort checking the gravity, aerating, and adding nutrient. [Something] > [Nothing]

Re: heat, there are enough opinions on this that I pretty much ignore claims as to whether method X is better than Y. As far as I can tell, there's really no evidence that heating vs no heating is better, they're just different. Some people prefer one way, some the other. The heat helps the honey dissolve more quickly, and that's good enough reason for me.

Zeg, its interesting the differences in mindsets from beermaking and winemaking. I made a batch of Boch a long time ago, too much work up front, boiling and timing everything. With winemaking I put in a couple hours easy work up front to get the must ready, fruit squished etc. and enjoy spending a few minutes each day for a week stirring up the must and measuring the SG to see how its going. The great thing about making wine and mead is that once its in a carboy I can leave it there for months, its actually better if I pretty much forget about it except for topping off the airlocks. Beer guys get all their work done up front early while winemakers stretch it out slowly over time. Still, stirring a little and dumping in a teaspoon of nutrient not a lot of work. The honey heating thing was a suggestion, the bees put in a lot of work to make the honey, each variety tastes and smells different, just heating it enough to dissolve it is not nearly as bad as boiling it so sorry if I offended. WVMJ

Nah, there was no offense, I was just afraid it was going to turn into a flame war (and those flames might heat all the aromatics out of the honey!)

I agree that the differences are interesting. Like I said, I've done mostly beers so far. That's mostly because the turnaround is so much faster---I've had a carboy full of mead for all but about a month since last January, and only one batch has been bottled. I love the simplicity of the mead, but due to the roughly monthly batches of beer, I do tend to think about things from that mindset.

What you say about winemaking being more spread out is interesting, and I think it's true. But since I think in "beer mode" most of the time, I tend to consider the "brew day" to be a single event. For mead, it's much much faster and easier, but I don't really "count" that time savings mentally when I look back on it. What sticks out in my memory is the brew day, and then a few days of testing, etc, plus a racking every month or two. Objectively, though, it's similar or less overall work, and it's actually a lot more convenient because there's not the half-day marathon brew session---it's much easier to find twenty minutes here and there.

But, I think I'm likely to keep a beer-centric view on things. Mostly it's because I'm more interested in making a variety of different beers. With mead, it's the traditional meads that are interesting to me. As interesting as the various spiced, fruited, etc, variants sound, I don't think I'm likely to get into those. Playing with sweetness/dryness is interesting, and I think I may do some oaking experiments, but I don't think I'm that adventurous on the mead front.

In any case, sorry if I sounded sharp in my last post, I didn't mean to come across that way. It's neat to see the different approaches people take to the craft.

Well you point out the differences nicely.

Though I'd suggest a "multi-mode" approach. To allow for, as you correctly point out, mead mode or beer mode. To be able to get the best possible results depending on what you're working on at the time.

After all, its the milestones of the making that are similar, just taking a different route to get to them. There's similar differences between wines and meads but they do seem closer in method/technique......

You might like to try a braggot - I did something similar a long time ago, I took all the beer ingredients, added more malt and tossed in a wine yeast to get what would be more correctly called a barely wine. If I did it again I would of course use honey for some of the sugars. Being a winemaker/meadmaker I knew I didnt even have the correct language before I came over here to HBT from WMT, eventually I will learn. I agree with FB, you compared and contrasted the differences nicely. I am acutally always in mead mode now, though like a politician, I am leaning left towards the winemakers mode but smart enough to know other modes exist and are worth learning from, which is why I cruised over here to HBT.

WVMJ

zeg said:

Nah, there was no offense, I was just afraid it was going to turn into a flame war (and those flames might heat all the aromatics out of the honey!)

I agree that the differences are interesting. Like I said, I've done mostly beers so far. That's mostly because the turnaround is so much faster---I've had a carboy full of mead for all but about a month since last January, and only one batch has been bottled. I love the simplicity of the mead, but due to the roughly monthly batches of beer, I do tend to think about things from that mindset.

What you say about winemaking being more spread out is interesting, and I think it's true. But since I think in "beer mode" most of the time, I tend to consider the "brew day" to be a single event. For mead, it's much much faster and easier, but I don't really "count" that time savings mentally when I look back on it. What sticks out in my memory is the brew day, and then a few days of testing, etc, plus a racking every month or two. Objectively, though, it's similar or less overall work, and it's actually a lot more convenient because there's not the half-day marathon brew session---it's much easier to find twenty minutes here and there.

But, I think I'm likely to keep a beer-centric view on things. Mostly it's because I'm more interested in making a variety of different beers. With mead, it's the traditional meads that are interesting to me. As interesting as the various spiced, fruited, etc, variants sound, I don't think I'm likely to get into those. Playing with sweetness/dryness is interesting, and I think I may do some oaking experiments, but I don't think I'm that adventurous on the mead front.

In any case, sorry if I sounded sharp in my last post, I didn't mean to come across that way. It's neat to see the different approaches people take to the craft.

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It's been a month since I made the must. Took a gravity and I'm down to 1.018. Sample tasted spectacular! I'd be ready to bottle and drink if I didn't know more time would improve and clear it. Damn the patience!

I'm just pitching in because have a 1 gallon mead going with Orange Blossom and Wyeast sweet mead yeast too so it is just like yours.. I had a troublesome start before it began fermenting. But after talking with some people I added in a teaspoon and a half of nutrient and my mead is slowly going. I can see why people have a lot of doubts with the wyeast strain..It does seem like it will stall easily.. I think the best thing to do in the future is staggered nutrient additions.

I pitched on the 5th at 1.102 Gravity. It's now down to 1.052.

You could also use a yeast that isn't so touchy. Personally, I'm just not willing to baby a yeast very much.