BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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Yup, on top of that, those guys Down Under from BIABrewer.info (com), are at finishing stage for releasing BIABacus. Web based (so far most sophisticated - but easy to operate) calculator for BIABz 
= actually few years of development and it's almost ready Sooon...... :fro:
= actually few years of development and it's almost ready Sooon...... :fro:Since it costs nothing but time and a bit of gas/electricity, I'd do it just to have a good sense of what your numbers are. If you don't boil on full on your burner, I'd pick the level you want to use and then mark the knob so you can always boil at a consistent level in the future.
Also, be sure to take into account thermal expansion if you're trying to be precise. If your starting volume is measured at 20C and your ending volume at 80C, your number is going to be off by a few percent of your total volume. So if you are anal about your numbers like me, either measure the temperature and make certain to cool off your final volume to the loading temperature or (and this is what I did) use a scale and measure by mass. If you just measure the mass of your kettle + water before and after the hour boil, then you know the mass of water lost and can trivially convert that to volume (1 kg / L @ 4C).
simple math here...that's all it takes.
absorption + batch size + boil off + trub loss = water needed.
absorption = grain weight in pounds * 0.06
here's an example from my last batch. oatmeal stout using 14 pounds of grain. I know my boil off rate in my 10 gallon pot is 1.25/hr and trub loss is 0.25 gallon. this was for a 5.5 gallon batch
14*0.06 = .84 gallons of water absorbed by grain (this accounts for me squeezing the bag. if you squeeze harder use a smaller number, if you don't squeeze at all use a larger number)
0.84+5.5+1.25+0.25= 7.84 gallons.
I rounded this up to 8 gallons to make it easier to measure. I could have gone down to 7.75 and still be fine. One you know your boil off and trub loss, this will be a simple part of the brew day. it takes just a few seconds and will be fairly accurate. I hit my numbers on the nose last batch, as well as the 20 before it..
This was exactly what I needed (an example with the formula and the absorption definition). iBrewsmith said I needed a similar number I came up with out of using this formula. Good stuff!
OldDirty
Well-Known Member
This and a crowded grain bag explains why my pre-boil gravity was low. I used 7.5g of water in my keggle with a crowded 10# grain bill! I'll be dropping my water by .5g and go from there with a new big bag.
I recently read about some of the Aussie guys doing 2.5 - 3hr mash times. Has anyone tried this and find any real benefits? Unless you still do a sparge to rinse the grains I can't imagine much of a benefit, but one guy wrote he had up to 97% efficiency doing 3hr mash times!
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I thought the point of doing BIAB was to save time? Three hour mash? No thanks...
solbes
Well-Known Member
No need to do 3 hour mash times unless you are doing large batches on a VERY tight budget. An extra 10% efficiency (which is hard to accomplish when you are already @ 80-85%) results in a savings of just 1 lb of grain for an average gravity 5 gallon batch.
Buying 2row in 50 lb sacks for $35, you're only saving $0.70 for an extra 2 hours of mashing
Buying 2row in 50 lb sacks for $35, you're only saving $0.70 for an extra 2 hours of mashing
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Me too. Just finished my 4th BIAB last night and have yet to mash for more than 60 minutes and my results so far make me question why I would want to add two hours to my brew day?
I have a 7.5 gallon pot. Could I do 4 gallon batches using this method? The reason I ask is I have two 5-gallon glass carboys that I would like to use as primary fermenters.
Please forgive me if this was already asked and answered in the thread. I didn't have time to read through the whole thing!
Please forgive me if this was already asked and answered in the thread. I didn't have time to read through the whole thing!
I have a 7.5 gallon pot. Could I do 4 gallon batches using this method? The reason I ask is I have two 5-gallon glass carboys that I would like to use as primary fermenters.
Please forgive me if this was already asked and answered in the thread. I didn't have time to read through the whole thing!
yes...you can do 4 gallon batches in a 7.5 gallon pot.
If I wanted to do a 5 gal batch in a 7.5gal pot, can I just put the grain bag into a colander and sparge with water at 170F to the pre-boil volume (~6gal)? If this is the case, the limitation would be how much grain you can mash (per http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml).
Sorry if this has been covered, read through about 20 pages of this thread but may have missed it. I'm doing my first partial mash this weekend - this doesn't look that different...just bigger.
Sorry if this has been covered, read through about 20 pages of this thread but may have missed it. I'm doing my first partial mash this weekend - this doesn't look that different...just bigger.
Yes is the short answer, however w/ bigger grain bills, the more you colander "sparge" , your efficiency may suffer due to technique....but your on the right track cheersIf I wanted to do a 5 gal batch in a 7.5gal pot, can I just put the grain bag into a colander and sparge with water at 170F to the pre-boil volume (~6gal)? If this is the case, the limitation would be how much grain you can mash (per http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml).
.
FWIW, I would max out the kettle and keep the pseudo soarge to a minimum.
I have a 9 gallon pot and have done 15.5 lbs with less water. When I do this, I take a colander and remove about half the grains into a Lowes paint bucket with a separate, smaller brewing bag. I then add whatever amount of water I need to get me to my pre-boil level and sparge. I'm regularly in teh upper 70's in efficiency and have always met or exceeded my OG.
When I grow up I'll get a 15 gallon kettle.
When I grow up I'll get a 15 gallon kettle.
solbes
Well-Known Member
I have a 7.5 gallon pot and have gotten the following effieciencies for recent batches:
Oktoberfest, 11 lbs grain, 77% Efficiency
Brown Ale, 8.5 lbs grain, 80%
Scotch Ale, 13 lbs grain, 76% (not including 1 lb of DME)
2 Hearted IPA, 12 lbs grain, 77%
I can exceed 80% generally when I mash 9 lbs and below. Have gotten as high as 86% on a Kolsch. But I am generally 75-82%. I do a pseudo drip sparge by suspending grain from rope/pulley in fryer basket above brew kettle. If you have a second vessel, you can get another 3-5% by dunk sparging for 10 minutes, but I generally don't bother any more.
Oktoberfest, 11 lbs grain, 77% Efficiency
Brown Ale, 8.5 lbs grain, 80%
Scotch Ale, 13 lbs grain, 76% (not including 1 lb of DME)
2 Hearted IPA, 12 lbs grain, 77%
I can exceed 80% generally when I mash 9 lbs and below. Have gotten as high as 86% on a Kolsch. But I am generally 75-82%. I do a pseudo drip sparge by suspending grain from rope/pulley in fryer basket above brew kettle. If you have a second vessel, you can get another 3-5% by dunk sparging for 10 minutes, but I generally don't bother any more.
Cool. Good to know! My secondary kettle is on the small side (9qts I think) - so prob too small to sparge in. Would it be better to mash-out at 170F, and then top off with water? Or, to use a colander and sparge by pouring water over the grains to boil volume? Or, do both techniques?
And a 2nd question. When steeping, Palmer and others say not to squeeze the bag to prevent extracting tannins. But, many posts on this thread suggest doing just that. Is Palmer just out of date? Do you not have to worry about it as long as the temp is low?
Cheers!
And a 2nd question. When steeping, Palmer and others say not to squeeze the bag to prevent extracting tannins. But, many posts on this thread suggest doing just that. Is Palmer just out of date? Do you not have to worry about it as long as the temp is low?
Cheers!
Think of it this way: the grain bed of a massive commercial brew (BMC) is going to put more pressure on the grains than you will ever achieve. BMC beers are not known for their astringency or tannins. As long as your pH and temp are reasonable, you really don't need to worry. I've been doing BIAB for the last four years, squeezing the bejeezus out of the grain, and have never had tannins.
inhousebrew
Well-Known Member
Totally random note:
I do 3 gallon stovetop batches and I love BIAB. It's easy, less cleaning, less moving, less storing. This is great!
That is all
I do 3 gallon stovetop batches and I love BIAB. It's easy, less cleaning, less moving, less storing. This is great!
That is all
And a 2nd question. When steeping, Palmer and others say not to squeeze the bag to prevent extracting tannins. But, many posts on this thread suggest doing just that. Is Palmer just out of date? Do you not have to worry about it as long as the temp is low?
Cheers!
^^^^^ that right there...
Tannins are not extracted by pressure, they're not extracted by temp.. it takes PH. since BIAB typically does no sparge, the PH won't get out of hand. Even a pseudo sparge or a dunk sparge isn't enough to get the PH out of control and extract tannins. In a traditional 3V setup, you sparge until you hit 1.010 generally. After that PH becomes an issue and you extract tannins.
Temp isn't an issue, otherwise decoction mashing would result in beers that are all tannins no other flavors.
pressure, as mention above isn't an issue either.
BIAB takes a lot of what was previously thought to be hard facts about brewing and tosses it out the window. Embrace the change, squeeze the bag...
it wont hurt...
Do you do a mash-out at 170F for 10 minutes as part of your process? And then just top off with water to get the right pre-boil volume?
slcdawg said:
Just jumping in...
I usually kick the temp up to 170f and hold for 10 min.
In my standard process I plan to add <2 liters to the kettle to get to the preboil volume. I'd rather top up then boil off. It's a matter of time.
scook13339 said:
I've read that this is the wrong idea for mashout. I think you supposed to bring this from mash temps to 170f over 10 minutes, not hold it at 170 for 10 minutes.
I may be wrong but that's what I read and that's how I do it!
Antler said:
It probably takes 10 min to bring the temp up to 170f although I don't watch it closely. The hold for 10 is to let everyone stabilize.
Truth is, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Mashout is a highly optional step. After I read your reply a checked in Palmer's How to Brew and he says really doesn't make a difference for loose mash 1.5 qt to lb or more. BIAB mashes are much looser then that.
I do a mashout more as a holdover from how I do a mash in a cooler. Maybe I'll cut it out and see what happens.
I've found that beers I don't mash-out have worse efficiency for me. Not terribly much, but usually the difference between 70% and 75%. It's been a long time since I last used a cooler, so I honestly don't remember if I mashed out, but with BIAB, I ALWAYS mash-out.
As I posted several pages ago, we have an on-going experiment happening on an Aussie forum wherein we are keeping track of gravity at end of mash and then gravity at end of mashout,,,,so far it appears that there is a 2-6 point gravity increase to be gained by mashingout. Perhaps those that are debating this subject here should instead try their own experiment?
My question is for those that use a 7.5 gal kettle, what is your method to get the necessary pre-boil volume? Say the recipe is 12 lbs of grain and you lose 1 gal to grain absorption. With a 7.5 gal kettle I can only mash with ~5 gal of water - which will leave me ~2 gal short. Which method do you use?
A. Mash-out at 170F. Top off to pre-boil volume
B. Skip Mash-Out. Sparge with volume of water to reach pre-boil volume
C. Mash-out and Sparge
D. Other?
A. Mash-out at 170F. Top off to pre-boil volume
B. Skip Mash-Out. Sparge with volume of water to reach pre-boil volume
C. Mash-out and Sparge
D. Other?
first.. you'd lose .72 gallons.. less if you squeeze the crap out of that bag..
second.. sparge with 170F water.. either by pouring through grains and then squeezing.. or dunk sparging... followed by squeezing
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Currently I do C. I have 2 kettles (7.5 gal. and 5 gal.) I mash and mashout in the large kettle and sparge in the small kettle. I then squeeze the bag in a bucket with a colander and combine all of the liquid to get my desired pre-boil volume.
Also, I can start with about 6 gal. of water for a grain bill between 12-14 lbs. in my 7.5 gal. kettle. Makes for a tight fit, but it's doable.
One question I have been wondering though regarding my method is, if I'm doing a sparge, do I need to do a mashout as well? I've been thinking doing both a mashout and then a sparge seems a little redundant and I could probably just skip the mashout and go straight from the mash to the sparge?
solbes
Well-Known Member
I do a mashout to 170, and then pseudo drip sparge from a second small kettle (holds maybe 1.7 gal). This option C on your last post of pg 111. If I'm still low on volume I will usually just top up to my pre-boil volume ( less than a 1/2 gallon). I don't hold at mashout temps, but it does take 10-15 minutes to get there from my propane burner.
And I squeeze the heck out of the bag after sparge (in basket) using a saucepan lid. No tannins.
Very helpful - thank you!
For the Mash-out, do you turn your burner on to get to 170F and then you're done with that step (since it takes 10-15 min to get there)? Or, 10 minutes once at 170F?Sorry for all the questions - think I'm just about there.
solbes
Well-Known Member
After the mash is done, I turn the burner on and leave it on until post boil flame out. I raise the grain in the basket from the rope/pulley once the mash gets to 170F. Then I start my drip sparge after the grain is suspended. I also add any first wort hops at this time. The sparging takes place while my wort in the kettle is heating towards the boil. Usually sparge is complete with grain bag squeezed by the time the wort is up to 200 F or so. Only another 5-10 minutes until boiling.
Theres alot of efficiencies with BIAB (less equipment costs and less cleaning required). But my favorite is the time savings of the sparging. There is no time used at all for me as the wort has to come to a boil anyway. And it can still get you within 10% efficiency of some of the best fly sparge setups I've seen.
Theres alot of efficiencies with BIAB (less equipment costs and less cleaning required). But my favorite is the time savings of the sparging. There is no time used at all for me as the wort has to come to a boil anyway. And it can still get you within 10% efficiency of some of the best fly sparge setups I've seen.
somedudefromguam
Well-Known Member
I am just switching to BIAB. Do I have to worry about over sparging? astringency?
solbes
Well-Known Member
Partial mashes are awesome for the first couple of BIAB's. Yes your still doing all the work of a AG, but its a little more forgiving of mistakes since a significant portion of the malt is extract. I did 4 of them, but would have been ready after 2.
Some new things with going all grain that may affect astringency. Like your water. I would say if your water has the correct alkalinity and mineral content to mash with your specific grain bill, that won't be a problem. I have very alkaline water that buffers, so I cut it with 50-85% Reverse Osmosis water from the grocery store (more RO for light beers, less for dark). I use small additions of 88% Lactic Acid to drop my mash (and sparge) to the proper pH (usually less than 2 mL). You can download the free MS Excell Water Calculator 3 from this site, add your water profile from city website, and add your grain malt recipe to get in the ballpark.
And you don't want to over heat your mashout or your sparge water. If I mash out to 170F, I bring my sparge up to maybe 174 or so. By the time I drip it all the way through its considerably cooler. Not a worry on cooler, it just may not extract sugar as easily. I don't think you can oversparge, but someone might have a better answer for that. Good luck to both of you!
Some new things with going all grain that may affect astringency. Like your water. I would say if your water has the correct alkalinity and mineral content to mash with your specific grain bill, that won't be a problem. I have very alkaline water that buffers, so I cut it with 50-85% Reverse Osmosis water from the grocery store (more RO for light beers, less for dark). I use small additions of 88% Lactic Acid to drop my mash (and sparge) to the proper pH (usually less than 2 mL). You can download the free MS Excell Water Calculator 3 from this site, add your water profile from city website, and add your grain malt recipe to get in the ballpark.
And you don't want to over heat your mashout or your sparge water. If I mash out to 170F, I bring my sparge up to maybe 174 or so. By the time I drip it all the way through its considerably cooler. Not a worry on cooler, it just may not extract sugar as easily. I don't think you can oversparge, but someone might have a better answer for that. Good luck to both of you!
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