Steam for Sanitizing/Cleaning?

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evanos

evanos

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Hey gang,
Just wondering about the possibility of using steam to clean and sanitize equipment. Steam is an incredible cleaning agent for gunky, nasty things and it can be created at temperatures in excess of 100 C, which makes it excellent for killing little beasties that could intrude on a brew. So I'm working on design considerations for a steam powered bottle tree that could clean and sanitize a large number of bottles simultaneously. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

:mug:
 
That's how an autoclave works, which some brewers use to sanitize. A steam powered bottle tree? Sounds more like a rocket launcher :cross:
 
That sounds great. That would be sooome beer porn.

I use steam to sanitize my fermenters (Sanke). It's a step in between the PBW and StarSan washes. Totally redundant. I'm going to experiment with whether steaming will liquify all the trub or bake it on. If it's liquify, I could do away with the clean cycle. Or ... do away with the StarSan cycle... Not willing to try it right now.

I use one of those clothes steamers that has a base/floor unit and a wand (like you find in SkyMall). Had one lying around. I just removed the wand. The base has 3/4" MPT. Works very well. My fermenter gets to 212 (as per my thermowell probe). I even daisy chain serving kegs after the fermenter and they get real hot too. Bet you could find a craigslist one cheap. I was going to sell mine... don't work very well for clothes.
 
why not put your bottles in the oven the night before, crack it up to 300 degrees and let them sit for an hour or so. Then turn off the oven and leave it closed until bottling time. that way the entire oven interior and contents are sanitized.
 
Steam sanitizing (for 15 min- as in an autoclave) is as effective as it gets! actually, at that time- you are the point of sterilizing.
 
If you have the ability to make a steam powered bottle tree, I would just make an autoclave. Put foil over the tops of the bottles so that once the cycle is complete, your bottles will be sterile until you open them. The added benefit would be that you could sterilize anything in it.

If you are dead set on a bottle sanitizer, I would suggest the following:
I am assuming you are talking about containing the bottle tree in some sort of chamber (autoclave) since having live steam flow into bottles venting to a room sounds like a lot of wasted steam, not to mention dangerous. Instead of a bottle tree, set up a dishwasher. Have a rack with vertical posts that you can set the bottles on and then slide them into the steam chamber. Each rack should hold 12-24 bottles, and the racks should stack. They should also have handles to make them easy to carry.
 
So I'm not thinking an autoclave, simply because that seems a bit daunting. A dishwasher isn't a bad idea, but I want more cleaning access to the inside of the bottle for more forceful cleaning. And Mr. McAllen, this would definitely be an outside contraptions :) Here in the Southwest, we can get away with doing things outside for 95% of the year, which is nice.

Anywho, my idea for the design was maybe like a bottle tree that would essentially be the steam delivery manifold. Each spike on the tree would be a multiport, multidirectional nozzle that's inserted into the inverted bottle. I was thinking a cylinder of some sort (large PVC pipe, steel conduit, idk, something pipe-like) would then slip around the tree to prevent blast offs as Mr. Broas mentioned. Steam would then be forcefully injected into the system and blast out the inside of each bottle while cooking any bugsies. A "tree" may not be the best design, but I was thinking it would be a simpler manifold. I don't know, I'm not an engineer, I'm a molecular biologist, lol. Anyway... thanks for the thoughts :)
 
evanos said:
So I'm not thinking an autoclave, simply because that seems a bit daunting. A dishwasher isn't a bad idea, but I want more cleaning access to the inside of the bottle for more forceful cleaning. And Mr. McAllen, this would definitely be an outside contraptions :) Here in the Southwest, we can get away with doing things outside for 95% of the year, which is nice.

Anywho, my idea for the design was maybe like a bottle tree that would essentially be the steam delivery manifold. Each spike on the tree would be a multiport, multidirectional nozzle that's inserted into the inverted bottle. I was thinking a cylinder of some sort (large PVC pipe, steel conduit, idk, something pipe-like) would then slip around the tree to prevent blast offs as Mr. Broas mentioned. Steam would then be forcefully injected into the system and blast out the inside of each bottle while cooking any bugsies. A "tree" may not be the best design, but I was thinking it would be a simpler manifold. I don't know, I'm not an engineer, I'm a molecular biologist, lol. Anyway... thanks for the thoughts :)
Click to expand...

Maybe instead of a tree, more of a Vinator? Give one bottle a steam blast and then move on to the next one.
 
I feel the need to reiterate that steam is hot, and seriously hurt you. I really don't like the idea of just releasing live steam.

evanos said:
A "tree" may not be the best design, but I was thinking it would be a simpler manifold. I don't know, I'm not an engineer, I'm a molecular biologist, lol. Anyway... thanks for the thoughts :)
Click to expand...

If you vent into the bottles on a tree, you will most likely make rockets. I would set up a wooden 6 pack holder and fill it with bottles. Then make a manifold with 6 tips that lowers into the bottles and blasts them. This way the bottles can't go anywhere and you have something you can use to carry the hot bottles away to cool. Put a piece of foil over the mouth of the bottle while it cools so that the inside stays sterile.
 
This sounds like an interesting idea, not the safest using a pressure cooker for a steam source, but better suited to the flash boiler setup I use or one of the low pressure clothes steamers. Recirculate cleaner through bottles on tree, drain, and rinse with water, then apply superheated steam at atmospheric pressure to sterilize. Solution and water can be heated by injecting steam into moving liquid without the noise associated with injection into static liquid.
 
Dually noted, Mr. McAllen :)

Honestly, this is just a little side idea that has been bobbling around in my head as an alternative to using no-rinse cleaners. I'm busy proselytizing (sp?) a new brewer who is incredibly (and I mean incredibly) skeptical of no-rinse chemical solutions. So, I thought steam might be a nice way to ease his concerns. Who knows...

Anyway, thanks again! Can't thank the HBT community enough for the input!
 
Holy dead thread. I thought i would bring this one back to life. I was steam cleaning my oven (my wife bought a canister steamer) and getting ready to bottle at the same time. I know a guy that only uses steam to sanitize his HB equipment and i wondered if i could make a bottle tree that i could hook the bottom of the steamer to and direct the steam up and through multiple bottles at once. Do you think it takes the full 10 minutes to sanitize like it does when boiling water?
 
What about the steam wand on an espresso machine? I am brewing a Belgian triple and was thinking that would be a simple way of sanitizing the bottles:).
 
Steam cleaning is all well and good. Problem is steam is invisible, what most people perceive as steam is water vapor from cooled steam. If you can fit everything in the 1/8" of steam between the water surface and the cooled vapor you can get something done.. but good luck with that.


Steam pipes at power plants and such are incredibly dangerous.. if you hear a leak.. STAY WHERE YOU ARE. You're safe right there.. Move and you could die as that high pressure steam will cut you quite nicely. And by the time it cools its to spread out to become visible water vapor.
 
fartingdog said:
Steam sanitizing (for 15 min- as in an autoclave) is as effective as it gets! actually, at that time- you are the point of sterilizing.
Click to expand...

BillyBroas said:
That's how an autoclave works, which some brewers use to sanitize. A steam powered bottle tree? Sounds more like a rocket launcher :cross:
Click to expand...

To be clear, an autoclave uses pressure to get the temps much higher than just boiling water. Simply boiling water to create steam is not sterilizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave
 
Dangerous and overkill. What's wrong with StarSan or Iodophor? Simple, cheap, fast safe. Using steam is a solution looking for a problem.
 
The more I think about this, the more it doesn't sound feasible at all. Sure you can generate steam and send it up a tree system. However, that steam will have cooled SIGNIFICANTLY going up the tree and out into the bottles. All you'll be sending into the bottles is distilled water. I don't see a significant difference between a tree or any other type of manifold. Same problem. The steam will have cooled before it hits the bottles.

Even with my handheld steam cleaner, you can hold your hand 6" from the spout with it blasting out. The steam has cooled by that point already to worthless temps.

If anyone has tried this, I'd be curious what temp the steam is coming out the ports into the bottles.
 
I actually ordered some silicone tubing off ebay and hooked it up to my steam wand:). The steam made it all the way through and was still pretty hot. I thought about building a tree but ended up just using the hose to try to sanitize the bottles individually. I think it worked i know that boiling water kills most bacteria so i'm hoping this works.
 
As mentioned before, a dishwasher does the same thing. Hot rinse and hot dry cycle generates steam sufficient to sanitize bottles upside down in the dish racks. Simple and effective with no need to buy or build new equipment.
Also, zombie thread.
 

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