Yeast Starter from Wheat Flour

I've read that the ancient Egyptians made beer by adding leavened bread to the wort and then straining the solution into a secondary fermentation vessel. I'm trying to recreate this by making leaven from wheat flour and then adding this to some wort to make a starter,which I'll then strain into the fermentation vessel to pitch the yeast.



Here is the yeast starter (on the right). Its fizzing and bubbling away at about 1 bubble per minute at the moment and there are no signs of infection and a nice yeasty smell.

I've never used a starter before, only dried yeast, and was wondering how I know when its ready to use and if the yeast will be in the wort or my flour-gloop at the bottom (it seems to be forming a small head at the top if that's any help).

First off WOW..to much work but a damn cool thing to try. Secondly the yeast will be on the top of the pile of 'trub'. it will be ready to pitch when the bubbling stops and when you have enough yeast to pitch

So correct me if I'm wrong - you added yeast to some wheat flour, and then later added that to your wort? If so, what is the point of using the flour instead of adding yeast right to the wort? And is this just bread yeast?

The quote in the above poster's signature is strangely appropriate:

Originally Posted by RICLARK
put 2 loafs of bread into a trashbag with 2 gallons of water let sit three monthes and then add it to your wort.

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Brave idea, but be ready for very sour beer. Flour, and all uncooked grain products, are covered with wild yeasts and bacteria. The method that you describe is very much like the way sourdough bread starters are made. Those are made entirely from the wild critters in the flour, with no added yeast. It is called sourdough because the high content of lactic flavor introduced. Enough that it comes through in the baked bread. I imagine that in beer, it will be much, much stronger.
On the other hand, try it and learn. I would do just a small batch, though, to avoid wasting too much wort.

No I think he means that he intends to pitch the natural yeast that he can harvest from this?

On one hand I am thinking that this may not turn out so well, but on the other hand I am mighty intriuged....

Keep us posted!

deathweed said:

On one hand I am thinking that this may not turn out so well, but on the other hand I am mighty intriuged....

Keep us posted!

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This is about how I make SourDough Bread. I began a started about 3 years ago using stone ground rye flower. You just start with a spoon full or so with the same amount of water....keep adding, and adding till you have a monster.

Cheers Arneba28, I guess it makes sense that the stuff on top of the trub is the active bit.

Funkenjaeger-to clarify I have not added any yeast to this, the idea is to cultivate the natural yeasts in the flour. I've already tried cultivating wild yeasts from the air but got a load of mould along with it so I'm doing this in the hope of avoiding a nasty infection in my wort.

Thanks for all the input, I'll keep everyone posted on how I'm progressing and if the final brew is drinkable or not!

Take some of the wild yeast and inoculate agar in a petri dish and let it work a few days and then take a loupe and select from only small clumps - white yeast and inoculate some wort and then propigate that into your starter. If the starter ferments out and tastes good you will know that you have a good strain of yeast for ale.

to isolate the yeast from the flour gloop you can do what WBC mentioned, or if you dont have agar and petri dishes and loops laying around the house you should give the starter a bit of a shake (be careful of blow off through the airlock) and let it settle for 20 minutes. all the flour gloop will settle before the yeast does and at that point you should pour all the liquid into a new bigger starter. this way you've poured off most of the yeast and left most of the gloop behind. i like the word gloop.



gloop.

yeah, that's just a sour dough starter. it's better to use rye flour when making it, tho, just ask your grandma. wheat flour spoils it.

Keep us posted celtic. I've been toying with brewing up a 16th c recipe that starts fermentation the same way: "when she setteth her drink together, she addeth...a handful of wheat flour, [then] proceedeth in such usual order as common brewing requireth." I've been curious for some time how that might work out.

"spoiled" is sourdough. Everyone's is right though, you're going to make soured beer.

withdrawn comment. good luck tho

Ok Guys, I've finished the primary fermentation and the results are better than expected. I made up a basic Pilsner recipe (adding a bit of extra honey in anticipation of a bitter brew):

3lb light malt extract
1/2 lb Briess Carapils Grain
1 1/4oz spalt hops
1/2 oz saaz hops
200ml honey
100g rowan berries (as a mould inhibitor)

The finsihed brew had 5.4% alc. potential and fermented for a little over two weeks. After the primary brew the alcohol content was 4.2% alc.vol, there was no head but a pretty fizzy brew. The taste is appley and dry (but not really bitter) very much like Kronenberg Blanc or a dry cider.
I must say this is not at all what I was expecting! I've bottled it up for conditioning, adding a 1/4 tsp extra honey to each bottle and we'll see what happens!

Congrats! I'm glad to see the experiement went better than expected and the "sour beer" naysayers were wrong. I dunno why people are so afraid of experimenting...Especially when trying some of the ancient techniques...

My GF and I are exploring some of the ancient brewing recipes, the "Midas Touch" funeral elixer (that Dogfish head did) as well as the one on the Gilgamesh tablet, the hymn to ninkasi, where you bake "Bappir Bread," break it up and add it to the mash instead of yeast.

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm gearing up to do the same thing. I'm feeding my dough starter every day and waiting until the yeast and other critters have formed a nice symbiotic relationship and the starter is smelling like good bread, and then I'm going to convert a portion to beer yeast. I plan to do this by dropping some into a ready wort like a traditional brew starter, fermenting all the way out, cold shocking, draining off the top, pitching again, repeat. Essentially the same method I've been using, but with wort instead of flour. Anyway, its good to see it worked for you, hope my results don't disappoint!