First extract batch - need advice on recipe qtys

Hi,
I've done 2 kit based batches and for my next one I'm going to have a go at an extract + speciality grain brew. I have most of my ingredients lined up already so now I just need to figure out the quantities. I want to make an American Pale Ale.

Here’s my ingredient list so far (for 23L batch):

* Safale US-05 Yeast – 1 packet (11.5g)
* Medium Crystal Malt – not sure of amount yet, probably 250g (1/2 pound)
* Simcoe Hops pellets (for bittering) – not sure of amount yet
* Cascade Hops pellets (for finishing) – not sure of amount yet
* 3kg Liquid malt extract – perhaps 1 can of Coopers Light for the boil and 1 jar of a cheaper amber (Brewmaster) to add after the boil

Any advice on quantities to use? I like beers like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. More details of my brew plan in my latest blog:
http://beerandgarden.com/planning-my-first-extract-batch/

Cheers,
Aidan

1/2 pound of crystal will be fine.
You have the right yeast.

I don't suggest Simcoe as a bittering hop as you'll end up losing all that great aroma and flavor.

Search Yoopers House Pale ale recipe for a good hop schedule. If you like SNPA than you'll enjoy her schedule.

BendBrewer said:

1/2 pound of crystal will be fine.
I don't suggest Simcoe as a bittering hop as you'll end up losing all that great aroma and flavor.

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I purchased Simcoe because it sounded like an ideal bittering hops for APA - according to the description: "American high alpha variety used for both bittering and imparting a distinct aroma/flavour as a late addition. It is often characterised as citrus with a woody/pine aroma. Good for beer styles like IPA, Double IPA, and American-style ales". Does it not work well with Cascade or what?

BendBrewer said:

Search Yoopers House Pale ale recipe for a good hop schedule.

Click to expand...

I see that Yoopers recipe is all Cascade. I had thought 2 different hops would give it a bit more dimension.

aidan said:

I see that Yoopers recipe is all Cascade. I had thought 2 different hops would give it a bit more dimension.

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Yeah, I sub out the first addition with a more aggressive bittering hop like Columbus. 1.5 oz instead of 2 oz for a 10 gallon batch. But I have made all Cascade and it is a fantastic Ale.

Does it not work well with Cascade or what?

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Yeah and they work incredibly with Amarillo. Like peanut butter and jelly.

I agree with Bend, the simcoe is going to overpower your beer and he's right about the Cascade/Amarillo. They are truly amazing together. I'm almost done with my American Blonde Ale that used those two exclusively.

Thanks for advice, I think I might do an all Cascade then. I'll still have a packet of Simcoe pellets left so what would an all Simcoe ale be like?

Ok, I've got my recipe finalised now, I'll brew it next week when my current batch of kit beer comes out of the fermenter.

So here's my recipe for Aidan's First All Cascade American Pale Ale:

Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 10.00 L
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients
1.15 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 28.75 % [boil]
0.35 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 8.75 % [add at end of boil]
2.25 kg Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 56.25 % [add at end of boil]
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
20.00 gm Cascade - NZ [7.70 %] (60 min) Hops 22.6 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade - NZ [7.70 %] (30 min) Hops 12.3 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade - NZ [7.70 %] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade - NZ [7.70 %] (0 min) Hops -
20.00 gm Cascade - NZ [7.70 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs Safale US-05 (Fermentis) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile (Beersmith)
Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.56 %
Bitterness: 34.0 IBU
Est Color: 22.0 EBC

Beer Profile (Kit & Extract Beer Designer Spreadsheet)
Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.4 %
Bitterness: 35.9 IBU
Est Color: 24.3 EBC

Beer Profile (Average)
Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5 %
Bitterness: 35 IBU
Est Color: 23 EBC

Thanks for the input guys, I'll report back on how it turns out.
Cheers,
Aidan

Brewed up this recipe last night. I have a few niggling worries about it. OG came out at 1.042, quite a ways of the 1.050 target. The wort tasted pretty bad - very bitter and hoppy. I hope it's not an indication of final taste. Previously I've just done of home brew, both from pre-hopped kits and the wort tasted good in both cases. Just worried that since the OG came out lower than anticipated, I might have over hopped it. I'm considering skipping the dry hops.

It's been 10.5 hours since pitching and fermentation has not started yet. This time I rehydrated my yeast. For previous 2 batches I just sprinkled the kit yeast on top and in both cases it was bubbling away by next morning. I thought the rehydrated yeast was supposed to kick into action faster, so I'm a bit surprised by that.

If you put in all the malt extract that the recipe called for, you really got 1.050, not the 1.042 that you measured. Your wort just wasn't mixed up as well as you thought. The taste you got was probably from that same problem so I wouldn't worry about the taste and follow the hop schedule as written. Besides, the bitterness has to be boiled out of the hops, dry hopping will only get you aroma, not bitterness.

Yeast follow their own schedule, not yours. Besides, what did you check to see if fermentation had started? The airlock? It's not a reliable indicator. At this time of the ferment, the hydrometer probably wouldn't show much either. Just quit worrying about it for another day at least and then check.

I think your niggling worries are unnecessary.
I haven't done the conversions from metric to US volumes, but I can't imagine that Beersmith or the spreadsheet would screw up on that. If your OG was measured at 1.042 then you either collected about 27 liters, or the top off water was not sufficiently mixed with the wort, and you took a gravity reading that was diluted by the top off water. The yeast will do the mixing for you over the next week or so.
As for the wort tasting very bitter and hoppy, that's just what it should taste like at this stage. (I've never used pre-hopped kits, so I don't know what they taste like at pitching time.) The bitterness and hop flavor will diminish considerably as fermentation progresses.
I'd wait until it's time to dry hop before deciding if you want to or not. At that time, you will have a much more balanced view of what the beer is going to taste like

-a.

RM-MN said:

If you put in all the malt extract that the recipe called for, you really got 1.050, not the 1.042 that you measured. Your wort just wasn't mixed up as well as you thought. The taste you got was probably from that same problem so I wouldn't worry about the taste and follow the hop schedule as written. Besides, the bitterness has to be boiled out of the hops, dry hopping will only get you aroma, not bitterness.

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When I measured the sample taken from the top I thought the same thing too, that it could just be a mixing issue, so then I took another sample from the spigot at the bottom. The SG from top sample was 1.040 and from bottom sample was 1.043, just a small difference. Yeah, it's quite a lot of malt so I was a bit baffled by it.

RM-MN said:

Yeast follow their own schedule, not yours. Besides, what did you check to see if fermentation had started? The airlock? It's not a reliable indicator. At this time of the ferment, the hydrometer probably wouldn't show much either. Just quit worrying about it for another day at least and then check.

Click to expand...

No airlock action and no foaming action on top but now I see little white clumps gathering on top so that might be the start of it. I was not worried but just baffled because I've read that rehydrating the yeast is supposed to speed things up a bit but in this case it was a lot slower than then I just sprinkled in the dry yeast. But I guess it could be down to the type of yeast and also the fact that I'm fermenting a few degrees cooler this time.

ajf said:

I think your niggling worries are unnecessary.
I haven't done the conversions from metric to US volumes, but I can't imagine that Beersmith or the spreadsheet would screw up on that. If your OG was measured at 1.042 then you either collected about 27 liters, or the top off water was not sufficiently mixed with the wort, and you took a gravity reading that was diluted by the top off water. The yeast will do the mixing for you over the next week or so.
As for the wort tasting very bitter and hoppy, that's just what it should taste like at this stage. (I've never used pre-hopped kits, so I don't know what they taste like at pitching time.) The bitterness and hop flavor will diminish considerably as fermentation progresses.
I'd wait until it's time to dry hop before deciding if you want to or not. At that time, you will have a much more balanced view of what the beer is going to taste like

-a.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reassurance, you're most probably right, but one can't help wondering will my beer be crappy. Tasting the wort on my first 2 batches had me thinking 'Wow, if it tastes this good now it's going to be awesome when it's ready'. I could easily have put down a few glasses of the stuff. But tasting it this time I was thinking 'Sh*t, I sure hope this tastes radically different when it's finished'. It could be just that the kits are fairly mildly hopped and in this batch I'm going for a beer style that is highly hopped so the wort is meant to taste like crap at the start but will get nice as it ferments, or maybe after it conditions.