What's needed for the receptacle?

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emjay

emjay

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Very noob question, I know, but I'm a student who has never installed high voltage wiring in a home (only stuff like Cat5 and RG6), though I've done plenty of electronics projects using 120VAC.

Tomorrow, the owners of my place are closing up an exterior basement wall, and I got them to agree to have some 6-3 Romex run from the panel to where the outlet will be, for an eventual 50A circuit. It will be hooked up to the panel at a later date, but I have to buy the wire tomorrow morning (50' of the stuff ain't cheap!), and I figure I might as well have the outlet installed at the same time - and basically, I'm wondering what's needed for that.

Do I just need a 15-50R receptacle, wall plate, and a junction box? How do I know which kind/size of junction box is needed?

Help me out so I can get the ball rolling on my 50A electric brewery!
 
6/3 + ground? Definitely go with the four wires if you have any intention of being able to run both 240V and 120V in your control panel.
 
Doesn't he only need 3 wire? He will probably also use a spa panel which he can run the three wire in and split it to 4 wires out. That's how mine is done.
 
3 wire installations are only legal if they are existing. Anything newly installed needs to be 4 wire.
 
JRems said:
Doesn't he only need 3 wire? He will probably also use a spa panel which he can run the three wire in and split it to 4 wires out. That's how mine is done.
Click to expand...

Yes, that can be done to get GFCI protection out of the spa panel, for a non-permanent installation (a permanent installation would have to conform to code, which is 4 wire). However, this configuration is not ideal and will not safely support splitting a 120V line off of the 220V downstream of the spa panel. For existing 3 wire, I would live with that constraint. If running new wire, it seems silly to me not to run 4 wire.

This is my understanding from similar discussions on here, but I am not an electrician.
 
Heh, thanks for the help, but it was installed yesterday. 4-wire 6/3 Romex to a 14-50R stove outlet.

Not hooked up to the breaker yet though... still need to find an inexpensive GFI solution.
 
emjay said:
Heh, thanks for the help, but it was installed yesterday. 4-wire 6/3 Romex to a 14-50R stove outlet.

Not hooked up to the breaker yet though... still need to find an inexpensive GFI solution.
Click to expand...

I was able to take a GFCI breaker out of a spa panel and put in my cb panel for less than $50........{thanks PJ}
 
bullywee said:
I was able to take a GFCI breaker out of a spa panel and put in my cb panel for less than $50........{thanks PJ}
Click to expand...

Whoa... more information needed on this.

I've read about spa panels many times, and I figured that's what I needed to look at to find the "cheap" GFCI solution I alluded to.

But 1) can you really just pull the breaker out of the spa panel and put it in your main panel? And 2) am I correct in assuming that doing so allows me to get away with buying ONLY a spa panel - whereas normally I'd also require another breaker to feed the circuit to the spa panel?

Also, my landlord is having an electrician come over (for other stuff) and insists on having him install the breaker and hook up the wiring while he's at it... so, 3) is there any reason an electrician might refuse to install a breaker that's been pulled from a spa panel?

And lastly... 4) my breaker box is made by Cutler Hammer. If you could give me any help as far as what (and where) to buy, and how to pull the breaker out in order to install it to the main panel, it'd be much appreciated. Forgive me if it's really straightforward and my questions seem unnecessary - I've never seen a spa panel, so I don't know much about them.
 
emjay said:
Whoa... more information needed on this.

I've read about spa panels many times, and I figured that's what I needed to look at to find the "cheap" GFCI solution I alluded to.

But 1) can you really just pull the breaker out of the spa panel and put it in your main panel? And 2) am I correct in assuming that doing so allows me to get away with buying ONLY a spa panel - whereas normally I'd also require another breaker to feed the circuit to the spa panel?

Also, my landlord is having an electrician come over (for other stuff) and insists on having him install the breaker and hook up the wiring while he's at it... so, 3) is there any reason an electrician might refuse to install a breaker that's been pulled from a spa panel?

And lastly... 4) my breaker box is made by Cutler Hammer. If you could give me any help as far as what (and where) to buy, and how to pull the breaker out in order to install it to the main panel, it'd be much appreciated. Forgive me if it's really straightforward and my questions seem unnecessary - I've never seen a spa panel, so I don't know much about them.
Click to expand...

I was able to find a spa panel with a CB that would work in my garage CB panel, it was the right type of CB but not the same manufacture as my CB panel, but I am the homeowner so I was ok with it, an electrician might see it different. Saved me over $70

My control box plugs into the 240v outlet from the garage CB panel with the 50a GFCI CB, no extra spa panel.

It was easy to change out the CB in the panel, I also had to run new wire and install a new outlet. With the Yoda-like guidance of PJ is was easy.
 
bullywee said:
I was able to find a spa panel with a CB that would work in my garage CB panel, it was the right type of CB but not the same manufacture as my CB panel, but I am the homeowner so I was ok with it, an electrician might see it different. Saved me over $70

My control box plugs into the 240v outlet from the garage CB panel with the 50a GFCI CB, no extra spa panel.

It was easy to change out the CB in the panel, I also had to run new wire and install a new outlet. With the Yoda-like guidance of PJ is was easy.
Click to expand...

What type of wiring did you use?
 
10-3 is actually a 4 conductor wire. The bare ground wire isn't counted when denoting wire quantity on nm cable(which is standard house wiring cable).


So in answer to your question Yes that wire is good for a 240 volt 30 amp circuit with the capability to have 120 volts also.
 
yjfun said:
10-3 is actually a 4 conductor wire. The bare ground wire isn't counted when denoting wire quantity on nm cable(which is standard house wiring cable).


So in answer to your question Yes that wire is good for a 240 volt 30 amp circuit with the capability to have 120 volts also.
Click to expand...
10-3 is actually a 4 conductor wire
Click to expand...
Please just be damn sure when you buy the cable that it is indeed 4 wire. Do NOT trust the description given by the retailer. Open the package and personally inspect the end of the cable.

'Nuf said.!
 
MC (metal clad), AC (armor clad), and NMB (household wiring) cable all use the industry standard of not counting the ground wire. NMB is also round if it has 4 wires (including the ground) and flat if it only has 3 wires (including the ground).

UF, SE, SER, and all of the extension cord cables count the ground wire. UF is flat regardless of how many wires it has SE and SER cable are round.

That should help you identify the wiring a little easier.
 
Apparently you are the "Expert"...

What ever...
Keep in mind that you are dealing with a retail store.

Do what ever you want to do.

Note: For the electric builders: This is the internet, So - be very careful with what you choose to do in your build.

Bye all... I'm done..
 
PJ you are right on!

when I went to Lowe's to buy my wire, the large wire display chart had 10/4 wire proudly graphically displayed and verbally described up above the wire section. So following Lowe's fancy graphic display I asked a sales associate for 20ft of 10/4, which prompted a snarky response that there was no such thing as 10/4. Contrary to the company endorsed overhead display, this ********* of a sales associate was on a mission to be right. Double check 3 wires and a bare copper. The DB's are out!
 
emjay said:
:eek:!

How do I know if I should get that one, or this one: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/electrical-breakers-distribution-load-centers-load-centers-main-breaker/eaton-cutler-hammer-2-50-amp-type-br-spa-panel-load-center-196182.html

...or a different one entirely?!

:confused:
Click to expand...

After checking the inside of my panel's door, it apparently takes BR-type breakers. Damn good thing I found that this one existed, or I would've bought the wrong one :eek:! Still not 100% sure this one will fit, but if ANYTHING will, it should be this one.

Now to find out the cheapest way to get it in Canada...
 
Would it be ok to run my wire directly from a gfci breaker in my main panel to my control panel without a plug?
 
Sure, but it doesn't seem all that worth it to me. The receptacle cost me all of $5 at Home Depot (even here in Canada, where that $80 Spa Panel is selling for nearly *$300*), and having an outlet + plug is just way more convenient (and even safer, really).
 

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