Why are my lagers so sweet?

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ArkhamAsylum

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First off, long time reader, first time poster. Thank you all for the wisdom you've provided over the years.

Now, the issue: I've only done three lagers, and they were all a bit on the sweet side.
The first, a red, was still quite drinkable, as the malts were clean and crisp.
The second, a pilsener, was almost cider-sweet when I racked to secondary, so I boiled 2 oz of hops for an hour to cover it up, and it is now an uber-hoppy pilsener-wannabe.
Last night, when racking my doppelbock to secondary, I noticed that it was somewhere between a sweet stout and a honeyweiss on a sweetness scale.

All three hit the projected OG/FG +/- 0.005, and I used very basic recipes (which I can post when I get home if need be). They all lagered for 4-6 months prior to kegging. Is there any guidance about this phenomenon? I've never had this problem with ales, or even ciders.

Thank you for the continued shared wisdom, and cheers!
 
Damn, you lagered for 6 months? I've prayed for deliverance from temptation, but I can't wait more than 4 weeks.

Anyhoo, since you say your FG is where it should be, the problem must be your hops. If you believe your are getting full utilization out of them, maybe they are not what you think they are (they all sorta look the same, heh?). Buy some new stuff for your next brew. Posting the recipes might be a good idea, but I would guess you know what you are doing (despite your single post to this forum).

Because lager yeasts are very good attenuators, your beers should be anything but sweet.
 
What COLObrewer said. There is no way to give an informed answer without knowing more specifics about your recipe, mash schedule, yeast pitching etc. As a guess only, the beers sound like they are not well attenuated which is likely due to too high a mash temp and perhaps exacerbated by underpitching yeast resulting in a sluggish fermentation. Trying to cover it up with more hops is not the answer.
 
What COLObrewer said. There is no way to give an informed answer without knowing more specifics about your recipe, mash schedule, yeast pitching etc. As a guess only, the beers sound like they are not well attenuated which is likely due to too high a mash temp and perhaps exacerbated by underpitching yeast resulting in a sluggish fermentation. Trying to cover it up with more hops is not the answer.

1.005 is not well attenuated? How you came up with any of this post is beyond me.
 
Lets see the recipes. That will enable us to troubleshoot....

Did you write them, or did you get them from a trusted source? Did you use lots of crystal malts (..........probably would leave those out of the lagers next time...) or roasted malts?
 
Mash temps... didn't even think of that, but I guarantee that's a contributing factor. I recently replaced my thermometer (old one sucked), and it's entirely possible that I was steeping about 20 degrees too hot. My ales tend to be a bit hoppier, which would explain why I never noticed this problem with them.
It seems I misplaced my recipe book (all came from my LHBS), so I'm sorry that I can't share my secret family recipes with everyone.

BigEd: I'm in SoCal, where more hops is ALWAYS the answer. I've seen it save failing marriages.

Thank you all for the quick and intelligent responses. I'll resurrect this thread in 6 months with my next lager.
Lesson learned: don't ever post without the recipe handy.
 
My 2 cents: Mashing higher gets you more dextrins/unfermentable sugars and will result in a higher FG and more body...but not much more sweetness.

However, if the yeast don't quite attenuate all the way THEN you have residual fermentable sugars and those are sweet. Of course, then your FG would be high but you could always mash at a lower temp to get your FG down...however that doesn't address the 'problem' (i.e. underattenuation). You'd just have less body but still the sweetness.

If you do Fast Ferment Tests it's much easier to see exactly what's going on. I do them as a matter of course. What I've found is that lagers are more finicky when it comes to getting those last few points of attenuation. You need a LOT of healthy yeast and the wort needs to be very well aerated (when cool) for the lager yeast to not peter out at the very end.

Kaiser's Understanding Attenuation article explains this better than I can (and it has a link for the Fast Ferment Test article).
 
So the fact that I didn't use a yeast starter could have repercussions for attenuation? Snap!
I didn't want to admit it, but I tried my first starter with the most recent lager (the doppelbock). I went completely unscientific, and just threw in a bunch of boiled extract and water, and let the starter sit at 60-50 deg for a week. Next time I'll play around with proper volumes and proportions, I promise. That could explain why my +/- 0.005 error usually leaned on the + side.
Lessons learned: mash at the recommended temp, and go full retard on the yeast starter. Brilliance in the basics.
 
So the fact that I didn't use a yeast starter could have repercussions for attenuation? Snap!
I didn't want to admit it, but I tried my first starter with the most recent lager (the doppelbock). I went completely unscientific, and just threw in a bunch of boiled extract and water, and let the starter sit at 60-50 deg for a week. Next time I'll play around with proper volumes and proportions, I promise. That could explain why my +/- 0.005 error usually leaned on the + side.
Lessons learned: mash at the recommended temp, and go full retard on the yeast starter. Brilliance in the basics.
Maybe try a Fast Ferment Test next time. Just reserve a half-pint or so of wort from the batch (I use a half-pint mason jar). Then when you decant/pour your starter into your fermenter, leave just a tiny bit extra yeast in the flask (or whatever you made your starter in). Then pour the mason jar into the flask and slosh it around and then pour back into the mason jar and put the lid on loose. Give it a swirl whenever you can (I just put it on a stir-plate). It should ferment quite fast (usually 2 days max). The FG of the FFT should tell you the limit of attenuation and you can compare it to the FG of the actual batch of beer. Only takes a couple extra minutes.
 
a variation of 0.005 in gravity is huge. If you're FG should've been 1.014 and it came in at 1.019, the beer will taste very sweet. Even a 0.001-0.002 difference can contribute noticeable sweetness. My recent German Pils had a subtle sweetness to it at 1.011, but that disappeared at 1.009.


And, yes, not making a starter will virtually guarantee your lager won't ferment out completely (unless you're using multiple vials/packs of yeast). You need a much larger amount of yeast for lagers.

Use Jamil's site to give you an idea of how much yeast you need: Mr. Malty
 
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