Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

branman said:

Has anyone tryed putting the bottles in a cooler, heated the water and poured it over them maintaing the temp to the 180F specification for 10 mins. Or do you think this would work?

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I think I saw someone on this thread did similar in the sink and covered with towels. Might search more in the thread and see

I tried to find a method for this but didn't, so hope this isn't covered elsewhere... FWIW, here's my guess for a method.

I'm brewing a 1 gallon batch of Ed's Apfelwine, and am interested in a sweet but still version, w/o carbonation.

It's at 1.020 right now, and it tastes good, but still a bit sweet to me.

Rather than using an unfermentable sugar, using a chemical to kill yeast, or bothering with cold crashing, I was thinking of the following ways of bottling using Papper's pasteurization method:

Method 1:
1. monitor the SG until it gets down to the sweetness I want, I'm thinking, say, in the 1.008 neighborhood.
2. degas (necessary?)
3. bottle and pasteurize immediately

Method 2:
1. let it ferment until dry
2. sweeten it up to where I want it
3. degas, if necessary
4. bottle and pasteurize immediately

One advantage to method 2 is that I can let it set until it clears (and maybe the flavor is better from aging?), but it will take longer and I'm not sure I care about clarity, anyway.

Any reason either of these wouldn't work?

Scottie

I'm curious about how the bottles of cider that you all have pasteurized have aged. Same as normal? Worse? Better?

Spinrathen said:

I'm curious about how the bottles of cider that you all have pasteurized have aged. Same as normal? Worse? Better?

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The sort of cider I do that I pasteurize are not made to age, they are drinkable right away and are usually gone within a month or so. If I were doing a big cider needing aging, I would probably make it still and not pasteurize.

My $.02 on the pasteurizing experience...

Made a batch of UpStateMikes Caramel Hard Cider about 4 weeks ago. SG of 1.068 and FG of 0.990. At 3 weeks in primary I bottled and back sweetened with caramel sauce and 2 1/2 cans of AJ concentrate. Bottled gravity of 1.014( a bit sweeter than I like,1 1/2 cans next time, but off topic anyway). Let carb for 5 1/2 days at 70 degrees on top of my frig testing a bottle everyday, mostly because the ABV was 9% and it tastes freaking awesome.

Just finished pasteurizing about 15 minutes ago and no bombs, and only one barely perceptible "hisser" (that will be my tester to see if the pateurizing altered the taste any).

Method was pretty much what has been listed here at various points in the thread with the following points highlighted...

- used a table I found on engineeringtoolbox.com that listed the temps and times for pasteurization and it also listed a footnote that I hadn't seen before to adjust needed temps up 5 degrees F for liquids containing added sweeteners( backsweetened cider comes to mind)...so for my experiment 166 degrees for 15 seconds

- filled my sink with the hottest water out of the faucet(125 degrees) and let the bottles prewarm in that to avoid any chance of thermal shock
- put about 3 gallons of water in my brewpot and brought that water up to 190 degrees.
- when transferring bottles into the 190 degree water the last bottle in was an extra bottle filled with tap water that i prewarmed in the sink with cider bottles, I then covered the pot and after about 5 minutes or so I would use a digital kitchen thermometer that had a probe long enough to reach to within an inch of the bottom of the bottles. When this hit 166 I would time 60 seconds(4 times longer than the chart said I really needed) and then started pulling bottles to slow cool on a towel on the counter.

All in all I think it worked great and was hands off enough that i could finish tidying up the kitchen and make sure my kids weren't burning down the living room while I was shuffling and monitoring bottles. Will update if I find out I completely screwed this up some how and I end up with gallons of exploded cider aging in my storage room

***to clarify my above post I was using the kitchen thermometer inside the uncapped extra bottle to get an accurate temperature for the liquid inside the bottles...sorry for lack of clarity

WannabeBeerNerd said:

...sorry for lack of clarity

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Don't let it happen again, I was confused for at least 3 seconds if not more.

Just bottle pasteurized my Graham's English Cider. I was worried they were too carbonated to pasteurize. I managed to get them all done, but the bottom of one of the six packs fell out when carrying it into the house and three exploded.

Isn't there a YouTube video on this somewhere?

I thought I saw one somewhere once now I can't find it...

Uh.... Guess I was over carbed...

BOOOOMM! Three bottles and a piece of glass shrapnel the size of a dime stuck in my side....
I may have had them in there for more then ten minutes as well. Bottom line: I need to buy a larger pot that fits them so that they are completely enclosed. SWMBO was NOT happy and i was cleaning the glass riddled kitchen for an hour... lol.
I plan to do this until I don't need to wear a ballistics outfit.

^^^ that's not cool... I got 32 bottles carbinating now how long did you wait to pasturize? How carb'd is to much? I really don't want a glass bomb to go off in my face! :scared:

branman said:

^^^ that's not cool... I got 32 bottles carbinating now how long did you wait to pasturize? How carb'd is to much? I really don't want a glass bomb to go off in my face! :scared:

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It seems time to carb can differ greatly. Which makes the plastic bottle critical in my brewlab!

branman said:

^^^ that's not cool... I got 32 bottles carbinating now how long did you wait to pasturize? How carb'd is to much? I really don't want a glass bomb to go off in my face! :scared:

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If it's really sweet I would start checking it after four days of initial bottling and then every day or every two days after that, but yeah the glasses bombs are a little freaky if you don't have gear on...
And as the dude below your post said the plastic bottle is a great trick

I've recommended this method a few times, but thought it was worth doing so again http://www.howtomakehardcider.com/

Ostomo517 said:

It seems time to carb can differ greatly. Which makes the plastic bottle critical in my brewlab!

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Wish I would thought of that 2 days ago myself

branman said:

Wish I would thought of that 2 days ago myself

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Ya, I have done that trick once before & this last week I bottled 6 different batches and didnt do it with a single batch, now I'm kicking myself for it! It would have made life much easier to have a plastic bottle at front of each of my bottled batches....
I will definitely do this from now on...

Doing a batch right now, it's freaky how much the headspace shrinks and liquid level goes up.

fizgig said:

Doing a batch right now, it's freaky how much the headspace shrinks and liquid level goes up.

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I had all bottle bombs. Maybe you can send me a PM or something and let me know how your pasteurization work out...

Bottle bombs while pasteurizing or afterwards?

Here's my process, first time, I hope yours weren't after...

I went from 1.071 to 1.027 over 4 days using a variant of the sweet country cider recipe here, I modified it with 2 gallons of apple juice (it was 1.044 out of the jug) and half a dozen fresh juiced granny smith apples and about 20oz of brown sugar, some pectic enzyme, some yeast nutrient, yeast energizer and rehydrated nottingham.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/5-day-sweet-country-cider-265986/

1.040 seemed too sweet so I let it go longer (I think all that tasting screwed up my stomach, ugh.), still seemed a tad too sweet at 1.027 but it was getting too boozy to let it go longer. I cold crashed it overnight on my screened in back porch at about 35 degrees. I bottled last night around 7:00pm from the cold crash, then immediately stored in the basement to carb at 60 degrees. I made 1 bottle a 20oz plastic pop bottle I squeezed a bit as I capped it to keep it slack. I checked it this morning and the 20oz felt about half carbed, I checked it after dinner and it felt like a new pop bottle and was stiff, so I pasteurized them all exactly according to the directions in this thread, 190 degrees for 10 minutes, the temp only went down to 170 in my pot, the bottles according to my laser thermometer stayed at 150+ for quite some time after.

Pics attached, all of the bottles have pretty much the same normal headspace but the hot bottles on the cutting board have all different levels depending on when I pulled them out, I used a filling wand.

fizgig said:

Bottle bombs while pasteurizing or afterwards?

Here's my process, first time, I hope yours weren't after...

I went from 1.071 to 1.027 over 4 days using a variant of the sweet country cider recipe here, I modified it with 2 gallons of apple juice (it was 1.044 out of the jug) and half a dozen fresh juiced granny smith apples and about 20oz of brown sugar, some pectic enzyme, some yeast nutrient, yeast energizer and rehydrated nottingham.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/5-day-sweet-country-cider-265986/

1.040 seemed too sweet so I let it go longer (I think all that tasting screwed up my stomach, ugh.), still seemed a tad too sweet at 1.027 but it was getting too boozy to let it go longer. I cold crashed it overnight on my screened in back porch at about 35 degrees. I bottled last night around 7:00pm from the cold crash, then immediately stored in the basement to carb at 60 degrees. I made 1 bottle a 20oz plastic pop bottle I squeezed a bit as I capped it to keep it slack. I checked it this morning and the 20oz felt about half carbed, I checked it after dinner and it felt like a new pop bottle and was stiff, so I pasteurized them all exactly according to the directions in this thread, 190 degrees for 10 minutes, the temp only went down to 170 in my pot, the bottles according to my laser thermometer stayed at 150+ for quite some time after.

Pics attached, all of the bottles have pretty much the same normal headspace but the hot bottles on the cutting board have all different levels depending on when I pulled them out, I used a filling wand.

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No, during... But I think I was over carbed

For my first 1 gallon batch of Ed Worts cider I ended up waiting until about 1.004 (I was aiming for 1.008 but waited too long) and then bottled and did pappers' Pasteurizing method. Everything worked fine and no bombs.

I was going for a still cider but since I didn't de-gas, I ended up with just a touch of carbonation, which was good. Also, 1.004 ended up being a good level of sweetness for me and a couple friends who tried it, but not sweet enough for my wife. Can't win 'em all.

Scottie

ahh, i was worried when I was doing it. I seriously contemplated throwing on my hockey helmet/visor but my wife would have given me large amounts of grief for it, I cringed placing every bottle.

The line between not carbed and danger zone is very thin, try the balloon or plastic bottle trick next time.

fizgig said:

ahh, i was worried when I was doing it. I seriously contemplated throwing on my hockey helmet/visor but my wife would have given me large amounts of grief for it, I cringed placing every bottle.

The line between not carbed and danger zone is very thin, try the balloon or plastic bottle trick next time.

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Read this!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/oh-my-god-exploding-bottles-took-me-my-kitchen-out-398939/

They went off like actual grenades! I had a piece of glass 3" long sticking out of my side and glass literally all over the kitchen.
Just to be on the safe side wear safety glasses next time.

Yeah, have to admit I considered some safety glasses, too.

And that is a bit freaky seeing how much headspace disappears when the bottles are hot!

Scottie

Doing it now and yes.. yes sir freaky is an under statment

Scottie61 said:

Yeah, have to admit I considered some safety glasses, too.

And that is a bit freaky seeing how much headspace disappears when the bottles are hot!

Scottie

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Really dude where some safety glasses... Just in case

I pasteurized last night, first time ever. A little background: Fermented apple cider from 1.045 to 1.003 in 18 days with cider Wyeast. Had a little fizz at that point. Added caramel syrup and 3 cans of ajc and bottled last Saturday (3/23). Filled a plastic soda bottle to test firmness, even bought a new Coke in same bottle type to compare. One day later, plastic bottle about same as after bottling, didn't open glass bottle. Two days later, plastic bottle slightly firm, glass bottle opened with slight pfft. Third day, plastic bottle felt same as day 2, no glass bottle opened (mistake!). Day four, yesterday, (3/26), plastic bottle finally felt same as unopened Coke. Opened glass bottle... gushed all over! Remembered that warm soda sometimes gushes so I decided to pasteurize 1 bottle. Worked fine. Pasteurized 6 more, no problem, then 6 more, no problem. Yes, I was nervous as hell, but my confidence and comfort level were building. Eventually pasteurized a total of 52 bottles, but 2 of them gave me my first lesson in bottle bombs! Not sure how high I jumped, but swmbo cleared the couch by 6". Both detonations were inside my large brew kettle, one in my hand (holding top with thick silicone oven mitt, bottom of bottle blew off underwater), the other blew the top third of the bottle off with the lid closed (thankfully). Got my safety glasses after the first one. The caps domed slightly on all of them. Some of them are now in the fridge, I'll test cold carb level tonight. The rest are at room temperature to verify that yeasties are indeed deceased (not any doubt though). Day 3 was probably the day I should have popped a test bottle and pasteurized. I'll pasteurize again on my next cider, but I'll pop a glass bottle EVERY DAY just to be sure. Thanks for all the info and experience folks!

I'm too chicken to try this, I just toss them in the dishwasher on the sanitize setting for 15 minutes. I've only had one explode, no mess to deal with.

I've read about pasteurizing with the dishwasher sanitize cycle a few times. I may try that next time. I think my problem this time was that my carb level was a little high.

I read once to just ferment for three days, bottle, sit for two more days, then pasteurize. I've done this a few times, worked out well each time. I just leave the bottles in the dishwasher for the two days. My last batch went from 1.064 to .998 in that time. I used red star champagne yeast.

xtian116 said:

I'm too chicken to try this, I just toss them in the dishwasher on the sanitize setting for 15 minutes. I've only had one explode, no mess to deal with.

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There are a lot of entries in this thread that say most dishwashers cannot get the constant temperature up long enough to kill the yeast...
Do you have a thermometer in the dishwasher to check what the temperature is?

BadgerBrigade said:

There are a lot of entries in this thread that say most dishwashers cannot get the constant temperature up long enough to kill the yeast...
Do you have a thermometer in the dishwasher to check what the temperature is?

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I've never measured the temperature, but the specs on my dishwasher say it's "Sani-Rinse" cycle is 155. I checked into it, and the target temperature to kill yeast is 140. I've had good luck, but then again, it's a brand new dishwasher. I don't know if I'd trust an old one.

There's one easy way to know if your dishwasher is hot enough to kill the yeast. Dead yeast = no continued fermentation = no bombs following pasteurization.

Is the takeaway I should be getting from this discussion that when back sweetening I should just be prepared for and accept bottle bombs, either in the pot or afterward?

Pappers has only had a bottle or two ever pop their caps, but people like BadgerBrigade blow bottle after bottle after bottle.

Hilarity about safety glasses and splinters of glass sticking in the skin aside, I want my wife to be able to enjoy my homebrew without fear. No other answer is acceptable for me. In over ten years of homebrewing I've never had a primed bottle explode, and having even one do so now would make me hang up bottling for good, and keg forevermore. I know she'd never touch a bottle of mine again, and frankly I wouldn't blame her. No amount of homebrew enjoyment is worth even one glass-related trip to the emergency room.

Is there no way to back sweeten without risk? Commercial vintners, cidermakers and brewers pasteurize all the time; I'm sure that the prospect of making the news with exploding bottles means that they have their process down. What's the difference here?

-Rich

Echoloc8 said:

Is the takeaway I should be getting from this discussion that when back sweetening I should just be prepared for and accept bottle bombs, either in the pot or afterward?

Pappers has only had a bottle or two ever pop their caps, but people like BadgerBrigade blow bottle after bottle after bottle.

Hilarity about safety glasses and splinters of glass sticking in the skin aside, I want my wife to be able to enjoy my homebrew without fear. No other answer is acceptable for me. In over ten years of homebrewing I've never had a primed bottle explode, and having even one do so now would make me hang up bottling for good, and keg forevermore. I know she'd never touch a bottle of mine again, and frankly I wouldn't blame her. No amount of homebrew enjoyment is worth even one glass-related trip to the emergency room.

Is there no way to back sweeten without risk? Commercial vintners, cidermakers and brewers pasteurize all the time; I'm sure that the prospect of making the news with exploding bottles means that they have their process down. What's the difference here?

-Rich

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You can back sweeten without risk... You just simply use non-fermentable sugars or Sweeteners.
The reason that I had many bottle bombs was the simple fact that I am wet behind the ears at this and the fault is mine. I was already very carbonated and so I knew that this could possibly result in bottle bombs. I think as long as you do everything nice and safe it should be okay. For starters do not let your bottles get over carbed like I did... Second, I would make absolutely sure that you have a big pot and lid so the bottles fit inside. I did not have a pot large enough so my bottles were sticking out of the top of the water. Also I have realized that to try to do this in the kitchen in case a problem arises is not ideal because I have pets and I don't want them getting any glass in their feet so after I get the pot up to about 180° I will now be taking it outside and doing the pasteurization outside. Some people are lucky enough to have a burner next to their barbecue, that would work great!
Lastly, safety gear: Safety glasses or a paintball mask, an apron and a pot holder on my action hand...lol (Not that kind of action guys)...

I am definitely not the type to let some scientific method get the better of me and I will be repeating this until everything goes smoothly...

I say don't let it scare you and give it a shot buddy

xtian116 said:

I've never measured the temperature, but the specs on my dishwasher say it's "Sani-Rinse" cycle is 155. I checked into it, and the target temperature to kill yeast is 140. I've had good luck, but then again, it's a brand new dishwasher. I don't know if I'd trust an old one.

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Yes, at 140°F yeast will die... But you need to get the internal temperature of the bottles up to 140°.
Your dishwasher will be spraying 155° water over the bottles, the question is if that is enough to get the bottles internal temperature to 140°.

Look in some of the earlier pages of this thread and a couple guys are discussing this very thing.
From what I have read it seems like most of the other guys are convinced that the internal temperature of the bottles won't get up to 140° for long enough (But they could have archaic dishwashers)

Here guys! I got this for you to remind you of all the fun we're having!!! Lol

I pasteurized for the first time last night and blew up 2 of 52 bottles. I was kinda ready for it though. I back sweetened with caramel syrup and apple juice concentrate. When I bottled, I filled a plastic soda bottle to estimate pressure, but put too much faith in it. With the plastic bottle slightly firm, I opened a glass bottle on the second day and got a weak "pfft." I didn't open a glass bottle on the third day because the plastic bottle didn't feel any firmer. MISTAKE! On the fourth day, when the plastic bottle finally firmed up, I opened a glass bottle and got a gusher. Then I "rationalized" that warm soda sometimes gushes, so maybe I could "try" pasteurizing. I should now add that there's no reason in the world why I couldn't just cold crash at this point. I don't really have any die-hard reason to pasteurize other than curiosity (which kills cats and rednecks alike). As you might expect, I got domed caps and blew up 2 bottles. Fortunately I had a huge pot with a lid, but one did blow up in my hand, but I was holding the very top with a thick glove and the bottom blew off underwater. The other one blew the neck off with the kettle lid on. And yes, I had safety glasses. I could still have gotten plenty of glass or hot water/cider had things gone differently. NEXT TIME I will open a glass bottle EVERY DAY to check pressure, then pasteurize on the low carb side if anything. If I get a gusher, I'll cold crash, PERIOD. It's all a matter of judgment. As BadgerBrigade was wise to mention, non-fermentable sugars are a safe option; I just wanted "apple" flavor, not sugar flavor. Live and learn (hopefully without shrapnel).

Keith66 said:

I pasteurized for the first time last night and blew up 2 of 52 bottles.

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2 out of 52 is pretty good dude.... I think you've got it...

Thanks BB, but I'm going for PERFECTION next time! Tonight I'm curious to see how much carb they have after being in the fridge. I'm cautiously hopeful.