My letter to PicoBrew

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festbier

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I'm sure these guys have been mentioned on here before but here is a letter I sent them. I'm not completely sold on the idea, as it takes out the hands-on element of brewing. However, it would free up a lot of time to get into something else, like yeast culturing.

http://picobrew.com

Here it is:

Hello, I am a home brewer with a few years of experience. I like the idea of the PicoBrew system as it obviously eliminates a vast percentage of the effort (however, some, even myself at times, claim that is what home brewing is all about). Anyway, I would like to get more detailed information on the operation of the system. Aside from tweaking the recipes, how much more is controlled by the brewer (temps, sparge/boil time)? Also, what is the estimated brewhouse efficiency when following the recipe (as long as you don't pack in a ton of grain or too small of an amount)? Lastly, over time certain mechanical parts will need to be replaced. Is this something the brewer will be able to do?

An information video that is developed for home brewers that answers questions, such as the ones listed above would be helpful. Simply stating that all the work is done for you is ok for some, but most home brewers (which will be a great percentage of your clients) need to know more.

Also, one of your videos mentioned that the PicoBrew system eliminates the "home brew taste". That is total BS, and a disgrace to people who brew the right way and do a damn good job at it. There is no "home brew taste" that is unique to home brewed beer, unless we're talking about freshness. Which, in that case, we would not want to eliminate.

Sorry for the rant. All in all, I am interested in your system and would like to know a little more technical information, as it pertains to the DIY type of person that is your typical home brewer. Thank you.

Regards,

Brian Bearden
Hollywood, FL
 
festbier said:
Also, one of your videos mentioned that the PicoBrew system eliminates the "home brew taste". That is total BS, and a disgrace to people who brew the right way and do a damn good job at it. There is no "home brew taste" that is unique to home brewed beer, unless we're talking about freshness. Which, in that case, we would not want to eliminate.
Click to expand...

Because you were insulted by that means it's probably not the system for you.

I'm sure you're not their target demographic. Their target demographic is the guy who wants to make beer, but has no idea what they're doing... Lives in a small house or apt... He wants to be cool and show off his beer making skills and has too much money to spend and not enough time to dedicate. So he rather buy this gadget vs doing it the tried and true way.

Beers from kits can have that "Homebrew taste" they're doing all grain to eliminate that, so what they said isn't untrue. Again... This shows their target isn't the avid all grain brewer.

Bottom line, this gadget is for the guy who also owns a $3,000 espresso machine in his wall that he fills with beans and pushes a button to make "professional quality espresso"
 
insanim8er said:
Because you were insulted by that means it's probably not the system for you.

I'm sure you're not their target demographic. Their target demographic is the guy who wants to make beer, but has no idea what they're doing... Lives in a small house or apt... He wants to be cool and show off his beer making skills and has too much money to spend and not enough time to dedicate. So he rather buy this gadget vs doing it the tried and true way.

Beers from kits can have that "Homebrew taste" they're doing all grain to eliminate that, so what they said isn't untrue. Again... This shows their target isn't the avid all grain brewer.

Bottom line, this gadget is for the guy who also owns a $3,000 espresso machine in his wall that he fills with beans and pushes a button to make "professional quality espresso"
Click to expand...

True, true...well stated!

To the others, I sent this today, just before posting here. I'll follow up with their reply when I get it.
 
You should ask QoB about the picobrew. From what I heard on the BN, she was pretty skeptical, but came around after using one. I could totally see owning one, although I'd probably end up brewing way more beer than I could ever drink.
 
FarmerTed said:
You should ask QoB about the picobrew. From what I heard on the BN, she was pretty skeptical, but came around after using one. I could totally see owning one, although I'd probably end up brewing way more beer than I could ever drink.
Click to expand...

...and ended up working for them. It's a good episode for people to check out if they are skeptical. I agree it's not for everyone, and I completely understand why other people are leery about it. However, it does sound like very well equipped machine. The homebrew comment is probably just marketing, which is nothing new. Personally, if I'm going to spend more money it will probably be on another kettle to have a direct-fired mash tun, not a toaster-oven looking auto-brewing machine.
 
There IS a "homebrew taste".... but that's not normally a bad thing. It's the taste of something that didn't come from a factory, unique and personalized. It's the taste of interesting combinations put together in unique ways. It's the taste of a beer that might not be exactly the same as the previous batch.
Suggesting that a "homebrew taste" is something that should be eliminated implies that the ultimate in beers are factory beers. That we should all strive to produce products that are more like Budweiser............. And that is insulting to all of us!! It is extremely poor and misguided marketing that can only be meant to target "Joe Sixpack" who has tried a few poor home brews made with bread yeast, or otherwise botched.

We however shouldn't let stupid marketing prevent us from looking at the potential for this machine. A wonderful device that can fill a niche, and a great potential "business plan" for your local home brew store. Imagine going online at BeerSmith, and designing a recipe or tweaking one a little, logging onto the LHBS website where you have an account, and plugging your recipe into their system and "pulling the trigger". After work the next day you drop by and pick up your wort............ or pitch the yeast, and put it in their controlled brewing environment to collect later and bottle. Suppose you want to try half a dozen minor variants to hone in on what you want............... Suppose you are running a microbrewery and want to tweak a recipe, but you are busily brewing 15 barrel batches, serving customers, marketing product, etc............. Imagine you are looking to brew a batch specially for a friend's wedding, but it needs to be unique and original, and you want to hone in on a particular taste........... There are countless situations where the PicoBrew could be a real asset.

H.W.
 
I dunno, the homebrews I made in the mid-90's all had a 'taste'. I think it was called the "I used the dry yeast packet on the bottom of the extract can" taste. It wasn't for the faint of heart.
 
That's why I said that the only taste unique to home brewed beer is that of freshness, as long as everything is done the right way, like keeping fermentation/sparge temps in range, maintaining proper cleaning and sanitation, etc. Which, by the way, a limitation of the PicoBrew system is that the "brewer" will still have to control ferm. temps, so in theory one could develop off flavors with this system if they don't know what they're doing.

These days with excellent ingredients available to us, we can easily make beer that is better than what you can buy; I find that many new brewers jump into home brewing without fully researching the hobby. They are the ones that typically get the bad batches. I always recommend for new brewers to read "How to Brew" and "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" before ever thinking about firing up the burner. Thats what I did and I have never had a bad batch. However, about two summers ago, I was one of those that jumped into...winemaking. I went and picked a ton of wild local grapes (in Texas), went through this long complicated process. I didn't know what I was doing. After fermenting a while, it was so acidic that it could have cleaned a battery post. It got dumped after a couple of attempts to correct it. Next time, I'll do a little more research on winemaking.

But I agree, the whole spin on home brewed taste is just a marketing ploy by these guys.
 
And here is their reply:


Hi Brian,

I am also a homebrewer who began brewing in 1998. I have had many successes and failures so I know where you’re coming from.
The Zymatic® is closer to an automated sculpture or RIMS system. It just looks different as it utilizes a corny keg as the main vessel for holding mash water, wort and finished beer.
By using the recipe crafter, the brewer can program in mash steps. You can do a single infusion or multiple step mashing. I rebrewed my light lager on the machine and those particular rests are 120, 140, 158 and 168. Each at varying times, 20 minutes, 120 minutes, 15 minutes and 15 minutes.
It’s up to the brewer to program any advanced mashing or boiling schedule, otherwise you get my recipes with what I feel works best – they’re in the recipe library but even those can be changed by the brewer. You can share with any other PicoBrewer owner from recipes they create and share in the library. There are ratings you can give beer and forums to congratulate or ***** with each other. I arrive at these through brewing mine and other homebrewers and professional brewers recipes over and over again. I can tell you that I am pretty picky with my recipes.
Efficiency differs with each brewer but I have been getting mid 70’s. Some brews even higher with a special efficiency mash created by resident food scientist/physicist/founder, Jim Mitchell. It’s been my job here to brew – and I brew all of the styles.
If parts wear out, there is an established parts department. The machine also comes with a warranty.

The Zymatic is just another brewing tool for the newbie or established homebrew to add to their arsenal. The same goes for professional brewers – we have some in Seattle that use it for brewing prototypes for new beers. Fremont Brewing is one. White Labs Yeast also has a Zymatic in which they use for producing wort for testing yeast strains.

I don’t know about the “homebrew taste” comment – I missed that one. Fermentation is under the control of the brewer and you know as well as I that you can have the best tasting wort possible and mess it up by under-pitching or uncontrolled fermentation temps.

If you’re ever in Seattle – please stop in for a visit! We can brew a batch.

Eventually there will be a webcast of the Zymatic and I hope you can tune in to that for even more information. Catch my brewing Network appearance on the Session from March 10 where we reviewed some of the Zymatic beers with Tasty and the Gang. http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/1068

If you have more questions, send me more.


Cheers!

Annie


Annie Johnson
Brewmaster
 
I'm in Seattle all the time. I should go brew a batch with him next time.

Not sure what I'd do... Maybe hit a button?
 
I think this kind of defeats the whole purpose of brewing beer IMO. Yes you create the beer but you really didn't create the beer. I'd rather have my setup and actually brew the beer than use this thing even if it were given to me.
 
brettg20 said:
I think this kind of defeats the whole purpose of brewing beer IMO. Yes you create the beer but you really didn't create the beer. I'd rather have my setup and actually brew the beer than use this thing even if it were given to me.
Click to expand...

What? next you'll tell me you don't like microwaves and boxed TV dinners!
 
brettg20 said:
I don't claim to have made the food when I microwave a TV dinner, that's the difference. Just because I microwaved a Steak dinner doesn't mean I grilled it myself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if it tastes better when you microwave than when you grill it, which method are you going to use more often?
 
festbier said:
And here is their reply:





Hi Brian,



I am also a homebrewer who began brewing in 1998. I have had many successes and failures so I know where you’re coming from.

The Zymatic® is closer to an automated sculpture or RIMS system. It just looks different as it utilizes a corny keg as the main vessel for holding mash water, wort and finished beer.

By using the recipe crafter, the brewer can program in mash steps. You can do a single infusion or multiple step mashing. I rebrewed my light lager on the machine and those particular rests are 120, 140, 158 and 168. Each at varying times, 20 minutes, 120 minutes, 15 minutes and 15 minutes.

It’s up to the brewer to program any advanced mashing or boiling schedule, otherwise you get my recipes with what I feel works best – they’re in the recipe library but even those can be changed by the brewer. You can share with any other PicoBrewer owner from recipes they create and share in the library. There are ratings you can give beer and forums to congratulate or ***** with each other. I arrive at these through brewing mine and other homebrewers and professional brewers recipes over and over again. I can tell you that I am pretty picky with my recipes.

Efficiency differs with each brewer but I have been getting mid 70’s. Some brews even higher with a special efficiency mash created by resident food scientist/physicist/founder, Jim Mitchell. It’s been my job here to brew – and I brew all of the styles.

If parts wear out, there is an established parts department. The machine also comes with a warranty.



The Zymatic is just another brewing tool for the newbie or established homebrew to add to their arsenal. The same goes for professional brewers – we have some in Seattle that use it for brewing prototypes for new beers. Fremont Brewing is one. White Labs Yeast also has a Zymatic in which they use for producing wort for testing yeast strains.



I don’t know about the “homebrew taste” comment – I missed that one. Fermentation is under the control of the brewer and you know as well as I that you can have the best tasting wort possible and mess it up by under-pitching or uncontrolled fermentation temps.



If you’re ever in Seattle – please stop in for a visit! We can brew a batch.



Eventually there will be a webcast of the Zymatic and I hope you can tune in to that for even more information. Catch my brewing Network appearance on the Session from March 10 where we reviewed some of the Zymatic beers with Tasty and the Gang. http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/1068



If you have more questions, send me more.





Cheers!



Annie





Annie Johnson

Brewmaster
Click to expand...



I listened to the episode of "The Sunday (Monday) Session" that Annie was on. She is very passionate about the quality of her brews. It was a good episode.


I
 
FarmerTed said:
Yeah, but if it tastes better when you microwave than when you grill it, which method are you going to use more often?
Click to expand...

Why not just buy microbrew? I would rather grill a steak in my backyard with friends than go to a steakhouse. The steakhouse may taste better, but doesn't give me the same satisfaction.

If you want to brew beer by pushing a button go for it, it's just not for me. My brews are solid enough that I would never consider buying this thing.
 
Looks like cool engineering, but I don't see how it will pitch the yeast or control fermentation temps? Does it have a compressor in it too or what?

Maybe it doesn't and the video on their site is just kind of "simplifying" the process?
 
copyright1997 said:
I've tasted some great homebrews, and some that at best have a "homebrew taste". Why? In-proper sanitation, fermentation temperatures, etc.
Click to expand...
these issues (along with old mishandled dry yeast) won't be solved by this contraption. it'll make wort for you, but it doesn't handle fermentation or sanitation. it's fantasy to think that you can push a button, walk away and return to great beer.

making wort really isn't all that hard.
 
I know absolutely nothing about this, so take this comment with a grain of salt... or... 1/2 a grain...

Just by reading this thread my take on it is this...

Think of making bread. You could do it with a bowl and a lot of hand kneading. Or you can use a bread machine. You are still in control of what you put in and all of that. It is more a Ron Popeil 'Set it and forget it' type thing.

Again, this is just from reading this thread. I could be way off (And probably am).
 

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