C02 refill survey

Hi all HBT'ers
I just emptied another 5lb C02 tank today
I believe there must be some sort of leak in my system. This the third tank in under 3 months.
Just wondering if I could get HBTer to chime in on there Refill statistics;

Size of tank in lbs:
serving/force carbonation pressure:
average number of 5 gallon kegs before refill:


Thanks
BeerCanuck

Size of tank in lbs: 20
serving/force carbonation pressure: 10-12
average number of 5 gallon kegs before refill: Over a year and a half's worth of beer (including force carbonating most batches). Easily well over 20 cornies. Still going strong.

5 lb tank
force carb
serve at 10 psi +-
10, 5 gal kegs / tank +-

To address your original lament:

Test every fitting in your system with some solution that will foam if there is a leak. I hear starsan works well for this, but so does a mild unscented dishsoap, water, and Glycerin solution.

At 15# of CO2 in 3 months, you're either running a bar, or you have a leak.

5lbs tank, serving only @ 9PSI, 8 or 9 kegs so far.

I second the soap solution test, definitely sounds like you have a leak somewhere if you aren't drinking a couple kegs a week.

I figured I might have a leak.
I want to approach this issue systematically.
On my second refill I tested for leaks using Star San spraying all leak points on the new Keg. I also tested potenial leak areas on my C02 input twice.

I was in my local LHBS and a guy had a similiar leak issue....pinpointing a leak is a vexxing issue.

One method I plan on using to pinpoint the leak is cranking up the pressure to 30 psi on initial hookup to force seal/test keg to hopefully identify leaks through an audible hiss.

Chances are that I have a leakey keg seal in the mix I figure.

cheers
BeerCanuck

I have never used Starsan, so I don't know how well it works to find leaks, but I work in a busines where pressure testing thousands of feet of piping with hundreds of fittings is a daily fact of life. If you can't find the leak, make some of this:

8 oz unscented dishsoap
4 oz Glycerin (hardware store)
top with water to 1 gallon

mix well and put in sraybottle, apply liberally to all fittings, monitor closely for 1-5 minutes.

If the leak continues to elude you, think like the gas, you are probably missing a fitting or connection

Good Luck!

star san is good for significant leaks. for slow leaks, it was still hard for me to determine with star san. the full proof method is the water dunk method. put pressurized fittings in water, and look for bubbles.

you should take the kegs out of the picture by isolating them first. you should never use a keg that you are not sure if it holds pressure or not. you need to determine that before you put beer in.

it is best if you isolate section by section. what i do is see if any part of the regulator is leaking by cutting off everything from the regulator, pressurizing the regulator, turning off the tank, and seeing if the needles drop any overnight. if they do, i need to check the regulator, and test until the needles stay in the same position, then i gradually move on to the different sections of my manifold until i have checked everything, then i check everything all together overnight to make sure i didn't miss anything. then test again with empty kegs if i feel if that is necessary.

For slow leaks, commercial leak detection fluids are great. They work as well as soap solutions, but no residue to clean up. Also, they typically have a spout on the bottle that makes aiming the solution easy.

I have extra shutoff valves in my system, so I can isolate portions while testing.

gnef knows!!! internal leaks on your regs can be very difficult to find with any kind of solution. Do the reg pressure test and rule that out, then move on down the line in a systematic manner and your leak will rear its ugly head

Just the advice I was looking for ppl
extra props for gnef

One other factor that I wanna clear up is the actual fill.
The 5lb tank that im using has a tare weight listed as 7.6 lbs
5lb bottle tank should weigh 5+7.6 =12.6 lb?

BeerCanuck

I'm not sure if CO2 is like propane but they may only fill it to 80% of capacity.

you should be able to get a full fill. the tanks are actually designed with a larger capacity than rated. this is why you can overfill a tank (which is dangerous!).

i've never actually weighed my tank though. i think i get a full fill most of the time, or at least close to it. i generally use 20# tanks though.

I did a little research;
http://www.catalinacylinders.com/co2ofill.html
according to that reference its recommended to fill the C02 68% (32 % headspace)

I plan on a refill tommorrow...(I got a backup 5lb C02 tank from a secondary kegerator conversion thankfully) I plan on testing the regulator / distributer / lines / kegs systematically. I plan on incorporating the testing with the cleaning / sanitization stage of the kegs this weekend.

thanks for all the good advice
BeerCanuck

Hi HBT'ers

So I refilled my 5lb tank and hooked up the regulator.

I pressurized my regulator to 20 lbs with the main shut off closed to the distibuter and then shut off the main C02 bottle valve as was suggested by gnef.


Just past the half hour mark I noticed the tank pressure gauge to loose pressure and after it zeroed the line pressure did the same. Leak pinpointed

I brought the regulator back to the point of purchase and explained the test.
The owner of the refill place gave me a sideways look but after explaing he swapped the regulator. I am running the same test on the new regulator and things are looking tickety-boo so far

I plan on opening the main shutoff and testing my distributer next but I am so grateful that I was able to pinpoint the regulator leak.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

I wonder if your previous regulator was missing the little plastic or rubber gasket that goes between the tank and the regulator. Though since they swapped it I guess they probably checked so I guess discount what I said.

excellent you found the main leak!

not to make things sound bad, but you may have other leaks, but a regulator leak is the best to find first, otherwise it makes you think you have a leak everywhere! this is definitely a good starting point. if you saw the needle drop after a half hour, that is a pretty major leak. an overnight test should ensure that your new regulator does not have the same leak.

best of luck!

bradsul said:

I wonder if your previous regulator was missing the little plastic or rubber gasket that goes between the tank and the regulator. Though since they swapped it I guess they probably checked so I guess discount what I said.

Click to expand...

The gasket at the regulator/tank was in place and seated well. The refill owner suggested this but I made sure that I had a good seal when testing the regulator.

gnef said:

not to make things sound bad, but you may have other leaks

Click to expand...

I plan on being a bit of a leak nazi for the next little while...this is fourth tank I have refilled in under 3 months. I was starting to get discourage with the move to kegging having never experience this with bottling. I plan on testing thoroughly all remaining components.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

You do know the tank valve needs to be back seated, right?

D*Bo said:

You do know the tank valve needs to be back seated, right?

Click to expand...

It doesn't. Propane tank valves should be opened completely, but CO2 and welding gas tanks do not have that issue.