Another American Pale Ale...Thoughts needed

I am looking to make my first APA this weekend here is my grain and hop bill (BIAB):

Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 8.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.2 IBU

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 56.0 %
3 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 24.0 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3 16.0 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 33.04 qt of water at 160.7 F 154.0 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

Boil Wort

Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.34 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.044 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 12.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 13.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 8.2 IBUs

Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 6.34 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.053 SG
Cool and Prepare Fermentation

Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water to achieve final volume of 5.50 gal
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -


I would love some suggestions on any part of the recipe. I have found that I am not a huge fan of crystal in my pale ales. The only thing I'm committed to is the yeast, wlp 0051 as I have made a 1 liter starter.

Again feel free to tear into it and give me your feedback. How is the hopping schedule? I would like to keep the ibu's within the style guidelines. I have a tendency to over hop...If thats possible!!!

Thanks!!!
Cheers!!!

I have 4 oz's of citra, cascade, centennial, and warrior.
One oz. of simcoe and one oz. of amarillo.

Looks good but I would not 'Steep' that last 2oz of cascade. Instead keep those for dry hopping in secondary. I am not a huge fan of crystal either.

PurpleJeepXJ said:

Looks good but I would not 'Steep' that last 2oz of cascade. Instead keep those for dry hopping in secondary. I am not a huge fan of crystal either.

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Oh, I'd do both! The flame out hops are really good, and without any other hops at the end of the boil, I think they are needed.

Vienna and Munich contain lots of Melanoidin. 5 lbs total is A LOT for a pale ale. It will be more like a Marzen. Probably will be good that way but maltier than a pale. I always use .5 to 1 pound of Munich or Vienna in my Pales but that's it. Usually Pales have a bit of crystal as well (around a pound for a 5 gallon batch. You could also add a bit of bisquit or victory to add complexity.

My go to is 2 lbs vienna, half lb of c60...vienna lends a nice note, but not sure how far both vienna and munich would take it

heferly said:

My go to is 2 lbs vienna, half lb of c60...vienna lends a nice note, but not sure how far both vienna and munich would take it

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I think it'll be nice as it'll have a strong maltbackbone, but without crystal. I would say that Munich AND crystal malt would be over the top, but I like this recipe!

Yeah I would dry hop an ounce or 2 of something floral. you could stay the cascade route or maybe amarillo?

I'm no expert on recipe formulation, but if this is a recipe you want to tweak and remake I would recommend trying US-05 or notty. IME PA's don't require much flavor from the yeast, so you could save some money just by going with those. Or just wash and reuse your current yeast if you prefer that I guess.

If it were me brewing it I would push the late hop additions to 15 and 5, but thats just me. And I would definitely dry hop it. I love having a strong hop nose on my pale ales and IPAs, because that is something I feel that all commercial examples lack.

Just my $.02 though

Awesome, thanks for the great feedback. I definitely wanted a "maltier" pale ale.

@wakadak I have already purchased the 0051 and made a starter so I am def going that route this time around. You think moving my 20 and 10 min additions would be better served at 15 and 5?

I totally will be dryhopping this one. Should I stick to the cascade or throw something else in there? I also have tons of cascades pellet and whole leaf, as well as the others I listed in my post above.

Again thanks for the suggestions guys and gals!!!

I will update with my results and final recipe....

Cheers

Just cascade for dryhopping is fine. But so is mixing it up! You could do just about anything- cascade/chinook, amarillo/simcoe, cascade/simcoe, centennial/cascade, well you get the idea!

For sure I will make a game time decision on the dryhop when that time comes!!!

bmock79 said:

For sure I will make a game time decision on the dryhop when that time comes!!!

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Or make a hop cocktail...let us know how it all blends in the end!

A hop cocktAil sounds delish! I want one!!!

I Like your recipe. A little heavy on the Munich. I would probably combine the 20min and 10min hops into 2oz at 15min.

If you want a "maltier" American Pale ale you might want to brew an American Amber Ale instead.
You're almost there. Cut back on the Munich a bit and add some Crystal, let go of the Vienna and the wheat

@jetmac why would you lose the vienna all together? I put some in my last IPA and really liked it. That's why I decided to try it here.

Thanks for your suggestions.

I'd keep the munich and such as is. I don't think it's too much at all. My APA grist is 50% pale, 40% munich, 10% crystal. AWESOME malt profile that goes so well with late hops.

bmock79 said:

@jetmac why would you lose the vienna all together? I put some in my last IPA and really liked it. That's why I decided to try it here.

Thanks for your suggestions.

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I'm saying if you were to gravitate towards an American AMBER Ale, it's not normally used. But if you like it, use it. It's more for Vienna or Marzen beers.

Awesome man thanks for your reply. I think I'm going to stick with the Vienna this go round. I'm already thinking about brewing a marzen sounds delish!

Cheers!!

So after a few tweaks here is the recipe I will be brewing on Saturday:

O.G.: 1.055
IBU's: 40ish
ABV: 5%ish

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.7 %
3 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 23.1 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3 15.4 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 33.18 qt of water at 161.0 F 154.0 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

Boil Wort

Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.34 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.046 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.35 oz Warrior [15.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 11.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [9.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 7.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 4.4 IBUs

Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.60 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min

.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [35.49 ml]

Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

Thanks for the feedback I will check back in with some results....

Cheers!!!

I brewed this one up today, I only hit 1.051. Kinda dissapointed, I only ended up with around 4.75 or so gallons in the fermenter. I am assuming that is why I didnt hit the estimated 1.055 o.g.??? I wash shooting for 5.5 gallons.

I believed I boiled off more than expected.

I also changed the steeped hops to an oz. cascade and an oz. simcoe

bmock79 said:

I brewed this one up today, I only hit 1.051. Kinda dissapointed, I only ended up with around 4.75 or so gallons in the fermenter. I am assuming that is why I didnt hit the estimated 1.055 o.g.??? I wash shooting for 5.5 gallons.

I believed I boiled off more than expected.

I also changed the steeped hops to an oz. cascade and an oz. simcoe

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If you ended up with 4.75 G instead of 5.5G then your OG should have been higher. You would have been at 1.046 or so if you had 5.5. Your efficiency sucks. I'd look into that.

Stevo2569 said:

If you ended up with 4.75 G instead of 5.5G then your OG should have been higher. You would have been at 1.046 or so if you had 5.5. Your efficiency sucks. I'd look into that.

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Me efficiency did blow today, usually I get in the 65-70% range. Today I came no where near that. Not sure what went wrong?

With your original recipe you said you would be adding water to top up the fermenter.
You should be able to sparge your grain with enough liquor to let you get your post boil volume with your grain bill. You shouldn't need to top up with water at all.
Did you sparge enough water?

I did the brew in a bag method no sparging mashed for like 80 minuted checking the gravity with my refractometer as I went along. THen brought the temp up to 170 and let it rest for 10 min. before starting the boil

bmock79 said:

I did the brew in a bag method no sparging mashed for like 80 minuted checking the gravity with my refractometer as I went along. THen brought the temp up to 170 and let it rest for 10 min. before starting the boil

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Ah... got you.
I batch sparge and haven't tried no sparge brewing.

I am wondering if i should have let the bag drain more after the mash out maybe this is a question for another forum...Thanks for your response.

bmock79 said:

I am wondering if i should have let the bag drain more after the mash out maybe this is a question for another forum...Thanks for your response.

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When I use to do BIAB I would squeeze the **** out of it to get everything I could. Despite the tannin extraction myths, it always came out good. Or you can just sparge more (not too much)and boil down.

I typically only get 60% efficiency with biab..maybe you're over estimating? Or just a batch where you were off...check all your numbers