Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

Thanks Doctor Who. I used Sarafale-5 yeast. Fermented steadily at 68 using a ferm wrap and a temp controller. I was definitely surprised at the off taste... but I guess sometimes it happens. I'll go to the secondary and keep my fingers crossed.

Just brewed another batch of this Saturday. This time I used .25 of the 60L and .25 of Honey Malt. I also use Cascade for the hops. Turned out really well when I made it last year. Dry but tasty. I wonder if the honey malt will make much of a difference.

I just cracked into my first batch, super tasty! I used C120 which gave it a nice sweet/caramel note, and its much more balanced that just plain ciders ive made. I used .5 oz kent goldings, and might use slightly less next time.

Hi all, Just wanted to share the recipe for the batch I brewed 3 weeks ago. Going into bottles today...


Recipe: Graf of Gilead
Brewer: Zandrsn
Asst Brewer: Rosa
Style: Other Specialty Cider/Perry
TYPE: Partial Mash

Recipe Specifications
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Boil Size: 3.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 2.86 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 10.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 8.0 %
Boil Time: 30 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 gal Poland Spring (R) Water 1 -
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.6 %
1.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 0.9 %
1 lbs Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 4 15.2 %
1 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5 15.2 %
0.70 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 10.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 7 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 2.0 days) Other 8 -
4 lbs Apple Juice (3.0 SRM) Grain 9 61.0 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 9.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.00 qt of water at 159.4 F 155.0 F 30 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.32 gal water at 170.0 F
Notes:
------
Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

At 3 weeks time bottle with 4 oz of corn sugar.

I made some of this last night, with 0.5 oz of Saaz and 2 lbs of extra light DME. I pitched at 70, and put a three-piece airlock on it. When I came home from work this evening, the stopper had shot right off the carboy, and left yeasty debris about five feet up the wall it was next to. I am a bit sorry to have missed that, it would have been awesome to watch. I replaced it with a blowoff tube, and it's bubbling away.

Since krausen was oozing out of the top, I am hoping that it didn't get infected, but I guess I will have to wait and see.

I am going to brew this sometime in the next week or so, using half a pound of wheat DME, one and half pounds of amber DME and one fourth an ounce of German Magnum. Using this more as a clean up recipe than anything, as I have these ingredients leftover from previous brews.

I bottled my first batch lastnight. Unfortunately my 2 week fermentation period was up last weekend but I was out of town and didnt get to do it until last night. I followed the original recipe with cascade hops and it did not taste good at all. Dry, mellow apple flavor, slight malt taste then the finish was all over the place. Most noticable was a harsh hoppy/pepper-type/acidic bite as an after taste. Not sweet at all. I added 4.8 oz of a sugar solution for carbing to the 5 gallon batch to carb it. Almost wish I added more to retain some residual sweetness. Anyone else run into this harsh aftertaste?

Urtalkn2Diz said:

I bottled my first batch lastnight. Unfortunately my 2 week fermentation period was up last weekend but I was out of town and didnt get to do it until last night. I followed the original recipe with cascade hops and it did not taste good at all. Dry, mellow apple flavor, slight malt taste then the finish was all over the place. Most noticable was a harsh hoppy/pepper-type/acidic bite as an after taste. Not sweet at all. I added 4.8 oz of a sugar solution for carbing to the 5 gallon batch to carb it. Almost wish I added more to retain some residual sweetness. Anyone else run into this harsh aftertaste?

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Adding more sugar when priming wouldn't have created more residual sweetness since it would have ended up fermenting and creating bottle bombs - unless you're just talking in general terms and really meant adding a non-fermentable sugar for backsweetening.

Regardless... I have made the batch a dozen times and only get an acidic taste when using an apple juice with Vitamin C, OR, when fermenting in a too-warm environment. Did you use ascorbic acid-spiked juice? Was the room your bucket in hot?

The hop level might just be the nature of hops. It'll mellow over time, but it shouldn't be "harsh" on bottling day. Hoppy, yes, but not harsh.

PortlandPatrick said:

Adding more sugar when priming wouldn't have created more residual sweetness since it would have ended up fermenting and creating bottle bombs - unless you're just talking in general terms and really meant adding a non-fermentable sugar for backsweetening.

Regardless... I have made the batch a dozen times and only get an acidic taste when using an apple juice with Vitamin C, OR, when fermenting in a too-warm environment. Did you use ascorbic acid-spiked juice? Was the room your bucket in hot?

The hop level might just be the nature of hops. It'll mellow over time, but it shouldn't be "harsh" on bottling day. Hoppy, yes, but not harsh.

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Yes I meant non-fermentables. The juice was unprocessed direct from the mill with no acid blend added. I'm thinking my temperature swings in my basement were too high. The room never went above 68 but it did fluctuate between 60 to 68 on a few occassions. I talked to a local homebrewer and he said it should mellow. I did not taste a large sample so he thinks I may have just tasted a sample right off the bottom that got stirred up. I'm just going to continue to condition it for the next few weeks then cold age it some more in the fridge to see what happens.

Urtalkn2Diz said:

Yes I meant non-fermentables. The juice was unprocessed direct from the mill with no acid blend added. I'm thinking my temperature swings in my basement were too high. The room never went above 68 but it did fluctuate between 60 to 68 on a few occassions. I talked to a local homebrewer and he said it should mellow. I did not taste a large sample so he thinks I may have just tasted a sample right off the bottom that got stirred up. I'm just going to continue to condition it for the next few weeks then cold age it some more in the fridge to see what happens.

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Excellent. Remember, the OP BrandonO said it's best after three weeks of conditioning. I usually drink an entire batch before three weeks is up, so I wouldn't know, but I'll take his word for it!

PortlandPatrick said:

Excellent. Remember, the OP BrandonO said it's best after three weeks of conditioning. I usually drink an entire batch before three weeks is up, so I wouldn't know, but I'll take his word for it!

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I did make a few sample bottles to test along the way and the taste has changed since bottling lastnight. The "peppery" taste is gone, atleast in the sample i tried, and now there is more of a sour note with a bitter finish.

Is their a preferred store bought apple juice for this recipe?

SWMBO loves craft beer, but not so much any cider or wine. Gave her some of this, didn't tell her what it was, and she goes "what is this? Cider and Beer mixed together? I like it."

I was like, "yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it is"

ndoe22 said:

Is their a preferred store bought apple juice for this recipe?

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I have made it with motts and musslemans cider and I think the batch with the musslemans was better. Although more$$

I let this sit in primary for 13 days, and then bottled. I forgot to measure OG, but the FG was 1014 after priming. I used 3/4 cup of corn sugar dissolved in 2 cups of boiling water to carbonate. Now that I am looking back at some of these posts, I notice that many people seem to get between 1000 - 1010. I also noticed a THIN layer of film (presumably yeast) on the bottom of the bottles about one hour after bottling. Should I be worried about explosions?

Also, one of the bottles I filled was a Pilsner Urquell that somehow slipped past my QC. These bottles use a non-standard cap size, so I wasn't able to cap it. I don't like to re-bottle, so I poured it into a glass and started drinking it. It was awesome! Huge apple flavor. It's like drinking apple juice that isn't sweet. I don't think I've had a commercial cider, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I like it.

I just made a 5 gallon batch. I went all grain instead of the DME, (2 row, Clarapils, and 120 crystal malt.) I used about 1/2 oz of Goldings because I had them on hand. Can't wait to see what it is like!

29thfloor said:

I have a batch of this fermenting right now and just got a call that the 5 gallons of cider I ordered a while back through the LHBS just came in.

I'm thinking about brewing up a 5 gallon batch of something fairly light and splitting both batches to make a Graff and a "Ffarg". So one batch will be 4 gallons cider and 1 gal wort and the other one will be the opposite.

Any suggestions on what style to do? Maybe a Belgian Wit?

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Looks like Woodchuck beat me to it (ended up doing mine with a hefe instead):

http://www.brewbound.com/news/2012/woodchuck-cider-announces-belgian-white-a-private-reserve-cider

I'd like to thank everyone for posting up all there info. I have my first 5 gal fermenting away and can't wait to try it.

TXCurtis said:

Brewed up my estimation of an all grain version of this today.

3 pounds 2 row, .75 lb of crystal 60l, no hops, no torrified wheat, S-05 yeast

Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Boiled down to a gallon in another hour. First time using the brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew - it works well. Came in right around 1.1 from the grain portion.

Added 4 gallons of applejuice - expect to see visible fermentation by morning.

Pictures follow...

Brew in a bag, aussie style.

Mash out/ sparge pretty much non existant. I just pulled the bag (or rather square of fabric) and let her drain. Probably could have used my igloo MT but this was an excuse to try something new.

Pretty run of the mill boil, right? No chance of a boil over with 2 gallons in a 7 gallon pot...

Wrongo. Good thing I was watching.

The final grain based product, siphoned from boil pot and shook like heck before adding to carboy.

Bonus is that the containers are PET so they've been sterilized with star san and await a couple batches of something...

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How did this turn out? Seems like there would be alot less fermentables than what's in 2 lbs of DME.

thrstyunderwater said:

How did this turn out? Seems like there would be alot less fermentables than what's in 2 lbs of DME.

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I'm curious too. He had said he got 1.1 from the three pounds of 2-row, which sounds a touch high at ~37 points per pound per gallon, but the end result isn't all that different from 2lbs of DME at ~44 ppg.


I could have my head up my ass on this, though... I'm just thinking out loud.

Do people rack this to secondary or just leave it in primary until finished?

bottomup said:

Do people rack this to secondary or just leave it in primary until finished?

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Primary 30 days and bottle..

Just bottled my first batch. The hydro sample was amazing. Can't wait to crack open my first bottle.

Brewed this up on Wednesday. It's been going so hard that this morning the krausen was coming out of my airlock! Guess I'll have to use some fermcap next time!

I used fermacap on mine and it still reached the top of my carboy.

Brewing a batch of this as we speak. Followed exact directions except yeast. Used wyeast 1388 belgain ale. Might add a little sugar so it does not go too dry. Born on date on the carboy of 3/11/12.

So with only two pounds DME what are some thoughts to fortify with one pound dextrose with the 1388. Boost ABV without drying out.

Adding sugar will make it drier. If you want it less dry you need to add an unfermentable sugar. Lactose will make it sweeter, maltodextrin will add body.

Hey, so, quick question regarding fermentation temperature. My graff has been at 68 for a couple of days, yesterday the temp went to 72, is this a problem? I can move the bucket to the basement, but then it will drop to low 60's. Is this a problem? I was going to move it once the bubbling stopped.

Will 72 degrees during fermentation hurt the final product?

Thanks.

I would go with the lower ambient temp. Vigorous fermentation creates a lot of heat inside the fermenter. Mine had a active fermentation for 10 days.

Ok so here it is, I just racked this to secondary to add some blackberry flavoring for the wife. I took a small sample to taste and it tastes a little like vinagar ??? I fermented at 64-66 degrees with us04 yeast and had a good fermentation and it had been sitting in the dark for 2 weeks. Is this batch no good or is there a way to save it? Any help would be appreciated.

Tom

Bookem, I'm not experienced with this yet; my first HALF BATCH of this stuff is going now (pic attached) but if it tastes like vinegar, I couldn't hold out much hope personally.

To all those that have commented over the last 163 pages, has anyone used clear bottles for this stuff? When I do ciders I usually use clear bottles, but this isn't really just cider is it? Also, the OP states 14 days fermentation then bottle, "Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees then keg or bottle." But some call for longer? Mine's been going now for less than 1 week so I have time to find out if people can answer one way or the other.

I used the Walmart Great Value juice, 10L and Carapils because that's what I had on hand, US-05, .2 oz Hallertau mittelfruh and divided the DMEs as stated originally. My OG was 1.070 @ 70ish. My half gallon of water/boil with hops 'n such seemed to end up much lower.

If anyone can comment on the ferm time and bottles used, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

I always do long primary. I let my Graff go 4 weeks.

Let me say when I first kegged my graff, about 4 weeks after fermentation started I thought it was pretty bad..... "not good" being a positive statement about it.
After that I have now let it sit in my keggerator since nobody drank it for awhile and it is actually decent. I did back sweeten it with a few tablespoons of apple juice concentrate (since it's in the fridge, no worry about fermentation or whatever). It has gotten MUCH MUCh better. Still not something I LOVE but it is very drinkable and two of my friends who come over often ask for that first.
So... IMO, let it sit for AWHILE! btw..... it is probably about 4 months old now guessing...? Good luck

Apple Peeler recipe from AHS:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13326

I can't see the actual recipe but it sounds a lot like a graff ("requires 3 gallons of apple juice, not included with kit")

Here are my results:

Used Target brand apple juice. Ingredients included vitamin C
1 oz Cascade 7.3% AA
2 lbs XLDME
0.75 lbs Crystal 120
0.25 lbs Flaked Wheat (head retention)
Dry yeast S-05
OG 1.061

Fermented on the hot side at 75 F according to my LCD temp strip on the bucket. The airlock was bubbling after only 4 hours and completely stopped after 72 hours. Primary for a total of 14 days then bottled. FG 1.012.

After only a week in the bottle I chilled a couple bottles in the fridge to give it a try. The aroma is amazing! Like apple pie. The mouth feel is pretty good too considering it has only had a week in the bottle. I was surprised by how much it had carbonated. The taste is pretty tart. The malt has a slight presence and it finishes with a tinge of grapefruit. It's pretty dry too with a very slight alcohol presence. The color is deep gold. I am very pleased with results so far and look forward to see how it ages after a couple more weeks in the bottle. Thanks, Brandon O!

Does it have to be the 100% apple juice no preservatives no sugar added?

AGadvocate said:

Does it have to be the 100% apple juice no preservatives no sugar added?

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It is important not to have any preservatives besides vitamin C. Any other preservatives will prevent the yeast for doing their job. good luck!

Pulled my first pint last night....I just don't know why I waited so long to brew this stuff. This stuff is fantastic!