Mead Must Gone Bad?

I attempted my first crack at brewing Mead on 7/17. I added 14 lbs honey to 5 gal water to bring OG to 1.090. I put in bucket and covered, but did not make air tight. I saw no fermentation for 1 week.

On 7/24 I aerated thoroughly and added yeast nutrient.

Waited 1 week and took gravity reading on 7/31 - it read 1.100. Is that possible? I also tasted it, and it tasted as though it was fermenting, but my readings are saying something different. I added more yeast (White Labs Champagne) and with some yeast nutrient.

On 8/5 it seemed as though it was fermenting slowly.

Here are my questions:

Should I see more signs of fermentation at this point?

Is there a point where the must is beyond kick starting into fermentation?

What was I tasting?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

What is the average temperature where you've got it?

Good stuff to know.

GTG

my first thought is that you measured your SG wrong somewhere. while temp can affect an SG reading 10 points is WAY out of the realm of possibility. 14 pounds of honey in 5 gallons of water should of gotten you a higher OG than 1.090. you may also want to check the PH of the must. if its below about 3.7 or so the yeast may be unhappy and not wanting to work for you. you can try warming the must up a little to give the yeast more energy to work with.

If you didn't stir enough you may have extra honey sitting at the bottom of your bucket. Thus you get a different Specific Gravity reading at the surface and the base of the bucket?

If you had undissolved honey sitting at the bottom of your bucket when you took your original SG measurement and then stirred up your must when you aerated you could get a higher SG measurement.

TipsyDragon said:

14 pounds of honey in 5 gallons of water should of gotten you a higher OG than 1.090.

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I made a traditional mead a while ago with 15.4 pounds of honey and 5 gallons of water which had an OG of 1.096. That amount of honey and water ends up being slightly over six gallons of must.

Helms said:

That amount of honey and water ends up being slightly over six gallons of must.

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ah. good point. 5 gallons of must would have a higher SG than 6 gallons.

As stated before, you most likely had layering of honey with more sitting lower and a lighter mix above that your measured.
Hightest has a spreadsheet in the sticky at the top of this forum that will take you from a guess, to straight math as long as you get you volumes right.
Personally I have read his FAQ a number of times and each time new light bulbs go off that make me improve my process.
Otherwise break out the hydrometer, and read up on SNA, and then just make a good mead.

Guys, thanks for the help. Undissolve honey makes sense for the hydrometer readings discrepancy.

As far as temp, my house is air conditioned with a constant temp of 75 degrees.

Having never made mead before, I still am not sure if the must can go bad. Is there a point of no return where I need to toss the must and start over? I am thinking no, but would hate to go through the entire process only to find out that I wasted my time.

Any thoughts?

Unless you really need the bucket that the mead is in, I would let it sit.

Relax, meads ferment slower and much more mellow than beers.
Even using SNA it usually takes me 10 to 14 days to get it to Final Gravity, without SNA it used to take me at least a month.
You need to change your time line expectations from days and weeks, to months and years for a good mead.

Maybe try a different yeast, make sure your must is mixed and aerated, and keep it a bit cooler.

The White Labs Champagne Yeast says 70-75 deg, so you're at the top of its range. With heat from fermentation, it's even warmer in the bucket. Also, if the honey was not mixed, the yeast may be down in the bottom of the bucket, where the OG is really high. Apparently that can cause the yeast to not begin fermentation.

On 8/6 I pitched some rehydrated D47 into a 5 gallon must of 13.5 lbs Tupelo plus water to 5 gallons, along with yeast nutrient & energizer, aerated by shaking the bejesus out of it, then kept it at 68 degrees (OG 1.092). Yesterday I cleaned the airlock and checked its progress. A week after pitching, the SG is at 1.020 and it tastes great. Still some foaming, but the fermentation started quickly and has stayed active. Today, it's still bubbling out the airlock.

I did not do SNA (I added everything at pitching time) or degassing or anything other than putting the bucket in the 68 deg chest freezer for a week and letting the yeast do its thing. Not that those are bad things to do (I really ought to do them too) but the lack shouldn't keep the yeast from moving along on its own.

Basically, I'm saying that if the yeasts are happy then your mead will be good. But those yeasts don't sound happy. At best, they're limping along. Get some yeast that will be happy in your conditions, rehydrate first and feed it nutrients, and try to ferment closer to the middle or even bottom of its temperature range.

Just my two cents.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

This thread helped me quite a bit, I'm having the same issue. Mead must (5 gallons, 15 lbs honey) has been sitting for 4 days with 3 packages of D-47 yeast added, but there has been no foaming or bubbling. I know that mead takes longer than beer, but I was starting to get worried that the must was somehow no good. I'm just going to try to stay patient and keep checking the temperature, thanks everyone!

AugustDerleth said:

This thread helped me quite a bit, I'm having the same issue. Mead must (5 gallons, 15 lbs honey) has been sitting for 4 days with 3 packages of D-47 yeast added, but there has been no foaming or bubbling. I know that mead takes longer than beer, but I was starting to get worried that the must was somehow no good. I'm just going to try to stay patient and keep checking the temperature, thanks everyone!

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Excellent, but there's a few things that it might be useful to post....

Like did you hydrate the yeast like it says on the packet ???

Did you add nutrients, acid, tannin, etc etc ?

A well balance mead must can start fermenting almost immediately, but also can take a while to kick off......

Oh, and 1 pack of yeast is good for up to 5 gallons, though 3 packs won't have done any harm (in theory, the higher amount should have got it fermenting quicker.....)

regards

fatbloke

fatbloke said:

Excellent, but there's a few things that it might be useful to post....

Like did you hydrate the yeast like it says on the packet ???

Did you add nutrients, acid, tannin, etc etc ?

A well balance mead must can start fermenting almost immediately, but also can take a while to kick off......

Oh, and 1 pack of yeast is good for up to 5 gallons, though 3 packs won't have done any harm (in theory, the higher amount should have got it fermenting quicker.....)

regards

fatbloke

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Hey thanks for your response!
The first packet of D-47 yeast I added, I did rehydrate to the packets requirements. When this did not result in any kind of action (two days later) I was told I could add dry yeast straight to the must, which I did. I added two packets. With no reaction, the next day I added another two packets.

In order to make the must I added grape tannin, superferment, and acid blend.
The way I made it this batch was different than the last, which admittedly was more than 2 years ago and I had an o.g. brewer watching over me. I was wondering if must can actually GO Bad somehow, this is my main fear. Whenever I aggravate the bucket, I can see and hear activity so this makes me think the yeast is alive and leads me to the conclusion that it's just being lazy. Based on what I've read, this could be a result of the temperature it is at. It's being kept in the range of 74-77 degrees F. Any thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated! I'm still new to brewing, and a slightly paranoid person so this inactivity of the must has been freaking me out! Thanks for your time. ReD

Some thoughts:

Fermenting with D47 at 74+ F will give you a batch of paint thinner.

To monitor progress you need to measure the gravity. If you hear it bubbling it is active but to know if they are progressing normally, you need to measure the gravity. Trying to watch bubbling rates in an airlock is very unreliable.

Adding acid blend to a honey must at the beginning often cause the pH to drop to a level that impairs the yeast, and I recommend waiting to add acid until fermentation is complete. While D47 is pretty tolerant of low pH, if you run into a problem, the pH may be the issue.

Make sure to aerate the must at least once during the first days couple of days of fermentation (prior to the 1/3 fermentation point). This will help the yeast develop higher biomass and better tolerance of alcohol.

Medsen

MedsenFey said:

Some thoughts:

Fermenting with D47 at 74+ F will give you a batch of paint thinner.

To monitor progress you need to measure the gravity. If you hear it bubbling it is active but to know if they are progressing normally, you need to measure the gravity. Trying to watch bubbling rates in an airlock is very unreliable.

Adding acid blend to a honey must at the beginning often cause the pH to drop to a level that impairs the yeast, and I recommend waiting to add acid until fermentation is complete. While D47 is pretty tolerant of low pH, if you run into a problem, the pH may be the issue.

Make sure to aerate the must at least once during the first days couple of days of fermentation (prior to the 1/3 fermentation point). This will help the yeast develop higher biomass and better tolerance of alcohol.

Medsen

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Thanks for your time and thoughts!
I guess first, is it that D47 is not a good yeast or will the batch be "bad" due to the temperature? I don't have a specific brew room, and it's HOT here (Texas), so I'm doing my best to keep it cool.
And yeah, I just don't have the equipment. I have some pH strips, but they aren't real specific (ha ha.)
And interesting! I didn't know that adding acid blend prior to pitching would cause problems, thanks for letting me know about that. I wish I would have known before I added the yeast, oh well next time I suppose.
I shook the bucket during the first three days to try and aerate the must.
I guess, overall, if the pH is low then that could be why the yeast is moving along so slowly? If so, what exactly can be done to correct this at this point? At the risk of over-pitching, I was contemplating making a starter slurry and letting the yeast acclimate to the must so they wouldn't be as "shocked" when I added them to the bucket of must. (I read this can help fermentation, and I could be wrong about that.)
Thank you very much! ReD

Minor ps: I opened the lid and peeked in, there's no bubbling or foaming but I can see tiny pops on the surface and can actually hear a noise that sounds like freshly poured soda (aka CO2.) Sooooo, basically. Does this mean the yeast is alive and doing something, and I just have to wait much longer for initial fermentation due to the temperatures not being completely ideal? And if not, what does this mean? Thank you all for your ideas and time!

It means the yeast are active, but you still need to take a sample and measure the gravity. If the gravity is dropping okay, you don't need to worry about pH. You can have a lot of activity with very little foam so you need to measure gravity to know what's happening.

D47 is an excellent yeast, but produces sub-optimal results when fermented at such high temps - it will create a lot of heavier alcohols (fusels) that will make the batch taste like rocket-fuel/paint-thinner/Band-Aids. Cool it down if possible - a wet t-shirt over the fermenter in a tub with a little water can be effective.

If you have to ferment at 75+ F, choose yeast that operate better in that temp range (like K1V or D21).

As for the pH issue, if the gravity isn't moving, you need to measure pH with either a pH meter (can be had for $20-30) or some pH strips with a narrow range (2.8-4.4 or thereabouts). If the pH is below, 3.2 adding potassium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate to bring the pH up to about 3.4 will help the yeast be more active.

Medsen

MedsenFey said:

It means the yeast are active, but you still need to take a sample and measure the gravity. If the gravity is dropping okay, you don't need to worry about pH. You can have a lot of activity with very little foam so you need to measure gravity to know what's happening.

D47 is an excellent yeast, but produces sub-optimal results when fermented at such high temps - it will create a lot of heavier alcohols (fusels) that will make the batch taste like rocket-fuel/paint-thinner/Band-Aids. Cool it down if possible - a wet t-shirt over the fermenter in a tub with a little water can be effective.

If you have to ferment at 75+ F, choose yeast that operate better in that temp range (like K1V or D21).

As for the pH issue, if the gravity isn't moving, you need to measure pH with either a pH meter (can be had for $20-30) or some pH strips with a narrow range (2.8-4.4 or thereabouts). If the pH is below, 3.2 adding potassium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate to bring the pH up to about 3.4 will help the yeast be more active.

Medsen

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Thanks for the tip on the temperature! The bucket's now in my bathtub with a couple inches of cold water and a soaked shirt over the top.

I pulled a sample, because I found my old digi pH tester but it's giving me 0r (no reading) on EVERYTHING including water, so it must be broken. I apparently lost my strips, so it looks like a trip to the store for me.
The sample has small bubbles rising from the bottom, and is opaque. Until I get something to test the pH I'm kind of stuck, I'm going to take the pH and use it as an Original or Starting Gravity and check again in 3 days to see what the pH is at. Thank you VERY much Medsen, and everyone! Wish me luck. Thanks again, Red. :fro:

Ooooookay. So I went to the brewing store, and got a hydrometer. The guy was very helpful, and said it sounds like the must IS fermenting and that meads don't typically produce a large foam. However, I put the hydrometer in the must and got a reading of about 1.110 which shocked me. I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know my SG, but it must have been VERY high! I'm just going to use this reading as a benchmark, and check it again tomorrow around the same time. I'm hoping that number goes down! Thanks again, to everyone.

If you added 15 lbs of honey, and topped it off to 5 gallons the OG should be around 1.125, I again highly recommend reading the mead FAQ sticky at the top of this forum, the spreadsheet makes planning an brewing much easier.
If your now at 1.110 that means you have already gone through .015 points so the yeast are active but moving slowly.
I would sanitize a stirring spoon, and stir that sucker up to degass it a bit and let some more o2 in. Oxygen is good to keep the yeast happy, but bad after your half way through your gravity readings.
Best of luck.

Actually, I'd expect 3 pounds per gallon of honey to give a starting gravity around 1.105-1.110 so the yeast may not have gotten much done yet. Recheck the gravity each day and see what's happening.

Medsen

Ya as has been said thus far, your hydrometer is the only sure way to see that things are getting done. Airlock activity and looking at the must isn't always a good indicator as to what's going on in the must. So I'd just kick back for a bit and take another reading to see what's going on.

Thank you very much everyone! I've got my hydrometer, and am going to take daily readings. I think most of my posts are due to me being impatient! Gotta get my patience in check, hopefully brewing will help! One last question, I've read in multiple threads that stirring the mead (allowing oxygen) is good until a certain point, and that it then becomes detrimental. I suppose I'm trying to figure out how to discern when I've hit that point. This bucket has been sitting almost a week, but the last yeast was added about 2 days ago so I am not sure if stirring now would be beneficial or detrimental. Thanks for your input, ya'll're really helping a newbie out! And not even razzing me about my silly questions.

Aeration is good up to about the 1/3 fermentation point - so if your gravity starts at 1.110, that would be around 1.074. I'd aerate it at least once or twice (more if they are sluggish) to help the yeast build maximal mass.

The gravity is hardly moving, though I think it is moving. Some have suggested adding "yeast nutrient", so would it be a mistake to add just a small amount of SuperFerment to try and energize the yeast? Thanks!

Three questions:
1. What is the gravity now?
2. How much superferment did you add to the must already?
3. Does the LHBS sell pH strips?

The gravity yesterday was 1.114 at about 70 degrees (I added .001 to adjust for the temp, it was 1.113) , the gravity today is 1.110 @65 degrees (I did not adjust for temp), so there is finally some (though small) visible action, I think probably because I've been able to lower the temperature a bit. (again thanks to your tip about the water and covering with a shirt)
The recipe called for and I added 5 tsps SuperFerment. Unfortunately, being new to this I did not stagger my nutrients so that was all put in at initial must making.
And yes, the store sells pH strips...they're like $10 so I bought the hydrometer ($8.00) instead.
I think probably unless you strongly suggest I add some, I'm just going to leave it alone. I don't need the bucket as I just bought another one. Most of my previous posts were made because there was little to no action taking place, and overnight I saw an (admittedly small) change so I know my yeast is still alive. Thank you for all of your advice, and lemme know if you think I should add more superferment!

5 tsps should be enough for now.

Cooling the temp down, actually slows the fermentation; at higher temps the yeast reproduce faster, but they create harsh flavors.

I'd follow the gravity for the next couple of days to see if it picks up. My suspicion here is that the acid you added has caused the pH to be low, but if the yeast are picking up the pace, it may be okay. If they remain sluggish, you'll need those strips (or a working pH meter).

Medsen

MedsenFey said:

5 tsps should be enough for now.

Cooling the temp down, actually slows the fermentation; at higher temps the yeast reproduce faster, but they create harsh flavors.

I'd follow the gravity for the next couple of days to see if it picks up. My suspicion here is that the acid you added has caused the pH to be low, but if the yeast are picking up the pace, it may be okay. If they remain sluggish, you'll need those strips (or a working pH meter).

Medsen

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See, I had thought as much! I was semi-confused about the fact that typically heat causes reactions to speed up, but wanted to do what experienced brewers suggested regardless, so I cooled it down. It's good to know the why. Appreciate it.

And yeahhhh I had already added acid blend to the must by the time I joined this forum and found multiple threads advising against it.

And sounds good, I'm just going to keep checking the gravity like you suggested and hopefully I won't have to buy any more equipment (for THIS particular batch.) Thanks a lot Medsen! Seriously. :fro:

*sigh* Okay, so the gravity has been maintaining the same for the past couple days and I pitched on the 15th but the gravity seems to be far too high to rack into secondary. I pitched yeast into a blueberry mead two days ago and it's bubbling and foaming like crazy, this never happened with the traditional must. I don't want to overpitch and ruin the flavour, but the yeast just doesn't seem to be active at all. I was just going to leave it alone, but I'm starting to think maybe I should make a starter and pitch again. Would this be a mistake? Sorry again for what could be viewed as excessive posting.

What's the gravity?

Pivovar_Koucky said:

What's the gravity?

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It's been at 1.110 for a couple days.

You can try building a starter and acclimating it to the must using the instructions from Hightest's stick above (the section on restarting stuck fermentation). You'll have your best luck using a yeast that can tolerate low pH like EC-1118, or DV10. Even so, if the pH is low enough, it may still stall.

I'd encourage you to check the pH - I suspect low pH is the root of the problem.

Medsen

MedsenFey said:

You can try building a starter and acclimating it to the must using the instructions from Hightest's stick above (the section on restarting stuck fermentation). You'll have your best luck using a yeast that can tolerate low pH like EC-1118, or DV10. Even so, if the pH is low enough, it may still stall.

I'd encourage you to check the pH - I suspect low pH is the root of the problem.

Medsen

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Alriiiiight looks like buying pH strips. And will there be an issue with using 5 packages of D-47 then switching to two packages of DV10? As well, about what should the pH be? And iif the pH is low what can be done to rectify that? I'm going to the LHBS tomorrah so I would like to buy everything I'll need at once. Thanks! :fro:

You might want to take a look at pg 65-66 of "The Compleat Meadmaker" for the section on pH and then fermentation problems. Anyway, it recommends adding 1/2 tsp of calcium carbonate at a time to the must, stir, and retest, until the pH is up to ~3.8

Other possible culprits the author mentions are left-over sanitizer in the fermentation bucket and using fruit juices with potassium sorbate or other stabilizers. It's a good book to get, though there are also the stickies at the top of the mead forums.

If the pH is below about 3.2, it may be impairing the yeast. You can add potassium bicarbonate (preferred) or calcium carbonate (2nd choice) to bring the pH back up to at least 3.4 to give the yeast a better environment to work.

If you find the pH is too low, raising it may allow the yeast that are already in there to get back to work without having to pitch more.

If the pH is not too low, you need to repitch with acclimated yeast - DV10 being a good choice.

You might also try ginning up some yeast on a less concentrated starter, like you would with beer. That way the yeast can hit the ground running. Try something like a half gallon of apple juice with no preservatives or maybe just table sugar if you are worried about flavors. Let it ferment for a day or two, then stick it in the fridge overnight, then pour out everything but the band of yeast at the bottom. Add this to your must.