DIMETHYL SULFIDE (DMS) in micro brew beers

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Kaiser

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When I was at the World-Beer festival in Raleigh yesterday I got my first chance to taste beers with a very pronounced vegatable flavor (DMS). I found at least 3 breweries that have a problem with this, as I wouldn't call this a desired flavor in any style of beer (unlike diacetyl). I believe that all of them were NC based microbreweries. But I cannot believe that they would serve a beer with such an obvious defect. This showed me again, microbrew doesn't mean good beer at all. I rather have BMC than these beers and if I would get such a beer in a restaurant, I would return it.

Azalea Coast Brewing Company from Wilmington NC, was by far the worst offender. And when I mentioned to them the vegetable smell in their beers (the Fokker Ale and the Navigator Lager), they didn't even believe me.

Kai
 
When you mentioned it did you talk to someone who actually makes beer or just some forklift jockey who works there? Given that you had the beer in your hand it would be hard for them to not believe you but if it was jsut some worker bee the might not have understood what you were talking about..
 
I got DMS from the Azalea Coast, and just generally though their beers were horrible, but didn't really pick it up from any of the others. I wish there had been more western NC brews there, which are my favorite. Highland and Asheville Pizza Co. are pretty high on my list, though.

On a related note, I don't think I've ever had so many beers shoved under my nose with someone yelling "Hey, smell THIS!" Tootsie roll, cherries, vinegar, and, of course, Kaiser's "This smells like CABBAGE!"
 
It is easier to admit defeat in almost anything then it is to admit that your beer if horrible.

"That can't be, I am a professional."
 
Valid point. Besides which I imagine that working that sort of event you end up with whole hosts of homebrewers and beer 'experts' telling you this and that about your stuff. Eventually they must get pretty jaded about critiques from these 'informed' customers.

I've certianly seen that on forums related to games where fans will claim 'this part sucked because' and 'this woudl be easy to fix' kinds of things.
 
I would say that the Kaiser had the worst luck with his beer selections at the festival. That was unfortunate.

My wife had a string of bad luck, too... like that yummy Grand Cru she picked up. TOTAL vinegar.

-walker
 
Brewpastor said:
"That can't be, I am a professional."

I'm not sure to whom I talked there. But I didn't feel comfortable going to a bewery and telling them there is a serious problem with their beer. Because who am I, just another drunk who thinks that he has to enlighten the pros there. When they said that they don't have a cabage smell problem, I left it at that.

I also had some good beers there. But unfortunately I can't remember which ones I really liked. After drinking so many different beers the palate gets all screwed up and even the well known beers (e.g. SNPA) taste different :(

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
I also had some good beers there. But unfortunately I can't remember which ones I really liked. After drinking so many different beers the palate gets all screwed up and even the well known beers (e.g. SNPA) taste different :(

Kai
I know what you are saying. When I've gone to the Great American Beer Festival in Denver, It gets to the point where all the beers taste the same. The malty ones don't get me so much as the hoppy ones. They say to drink the light ones first and move your way up but that is kinda hard to do. There are so many breweries there that it is almost impossible to go back to them to try their heavier beers.
 
Walker-san said:
My wife had a string of bad luck, too... like that yummy Grand Cru she picked up. TOTAL vinegar.
That one reminded me of making Easter eggs! I had pretty good luck once we got past Azalea Coast (fortunately near the start of our tour).

Oh yeah, major props to the organizers on one thing...I didn't have to wait in line for a port-a-john a single time! But I do have to ding them on layout...it just wasn't possible with the 'tunnel' configuration to get a sample and hangout. I felt like I was being herded from one end to the other.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
That one reminded me of making Easter eggs!
LOL...it is all coming back...I remember that one!!!!



Baron von BeeGee said:
Oh yeah, major props to the organizers on one thing...I didn't have to wait in line for a port-a-john a single time! But I do have to ding them on layout...it just wasn't possible with the 'tunnel' configuration to get a sample and hangout. I felt like I was being herded from one end to the other.

Yeah, the tunnel was kind of cramped. Leslie stole some cool **** though. :p
I got a nice highland poster and some stupid beaker looking thing. WTF that is going to get used for, I dunno. Maybe a hydrometer sampler when I go to 55 gallon batches. :p
 
Let's not forget the great beers that we tried.

I had a stout that I shared that everyone thought was ecellent. I don't recall the brewery name, but it should be easy to trsack down since I DO remember the beer name

Dragon's Milk

Wonderful, wonderful stuff.

I know a lot of people here poo-poo fruity beers, but Shipyard had a blueberry wheat that was outstanding. I never tried their raspberry wheat, but I believe BeerLuvnGrl did.

I made dude try the IPA that turned me on to IPAs: Mash House's Hoppy Hour. He seemed to really like that one.

My biggest LET DOWN was Dogfish's Midas Touch. For those unfamiliar, this is a beer brewed following an ancient recipe that was discovered. I don't recall if the recipe was found in his tomb or where exactly, but the beer literally was brewed for King Midas. So, having such a cool background, I think I might have had my hopes set too high for it. In any event, I was not exactly thrilled by the beer.

I'm beginning to think that I do not like DFH. They are seeming more and more like a company that brews gimmick beers; the hop method for their IPAs, the recipe for Midas, the green beer they were serving that had algea in it (that's no joke, people). I wonder if they are capable of producing a simple, tastey brown ale or if everything needs to have a schtick for them to sell it. Their IPA s good, but it ain't that good.

Anyone recall who had that red mead at the festival. I'd like to get some of that.

-walker
 
Walker-san said:
Let's not forget the great beers that we tried.

I had a stout that I shared that everyone thought was ecellent. I don't recall the brewery name, but it should be easy to trsack down since I DO remember the beer name

Dragon's Milk

Wonderful, wonderful stuff.

New Holland. Awesome beer.


Walker-san said:
I made dude try the IPA that turned me on to IPAs: Mash House's Hoppy Hour. He seemed to really like that one.

Yeah, I had 3 awesome IPAs yesterday, and 2 of them I can't remember. They were all down that same row.
Hoppy Hour was outstanding though.

Walker-san said:
I'm beginning to think that I do not like DFH. They are seeming more and more like a company that brews gimmick beers; the hop method for their IPAs, the recipe for Midas, the green beer they were serving that had algea in it (that's no joke, people). I wonder if they are capable of producing a simple, tastey brown ale or if everything needs to have a schtick for them to sell it. Their IPA s good, but it ain't that good.


I think the 90 minute is a SUPER beer, the rest, yeah you can have 'em. I think the midas touch and the raison 'de etre or whatever it is are blecch. Too damn sweet for me. Which is weird cause I like the sweet lambics from Lindemann's.

Walker-san said:
Anyone recall who had that red mead at the festival. I'd like to get some of that.

I'd like to know too. SWMBO has been balking at me spending 50 bucks on honey for a mead. After she tried that yesterday, it got approved. :ban:

EDIT: I'm going to go find the book they passed out at the entrance and go through it to get my bearings on some of those beer names. I'll post a list of some of my faves later on. @ that stick out right now were the Gaelic Ale--AWESOME. And having Celebration Ale "out of season" was a special treat. More to come.
 
Dude said:
that stick out right now were the Gaelic Ale--AWESOME.

I had this one at one of our lunches and I liked it from the first sip. So much in fact that I will have to look into making one like this (not a clone, just a beer that goes into the same direction). I also had it at the festival and was not as blown away. But since I had it towards the end it proves that my palate was totally screwed up ;)

And that Bock, it has been one of my favorites as well. I finished the last 4oz today :(. I plan to make a rehersal for next years seasonal doppelbock, just so I can enjoy that beer again later this year.

Kai
 
Gaelic ale = :rockin:

This was the very first beer I ever had from North Carolina... about 2 weeks after moving here at a restaurant in Chapel Hill. I thought it was incredible.

Dude, I don't know if you got a chance to grab some Hoppy Hour before you left town. If you didn't, let me know. I could probably ship out a package with Hoppy Hour and Gaelic Ale in it.

-walker
 
Kaiser said:
I had this one at one of our lunches and I liked it from the first sip. So much in fact that I will have to look into making one like this (not a clone, just a beer that goes into the same direction). I also had it at the festival and was not as blown away. But since I had it towards the end it proves that my palate was totally screwed up

And that Bock, it has been one of my favorites as well. I finished the last 4oz today . I plan to make a rehersal for next years seasonal doppelbock, just so I can enjoy that beer again later this year.

Kai

Kai, I'd be interested in brewing something similar to that Gaelic Ale as well. From what I gather, it sounds similar in style to the one Boulevard makes as well.

I was surprised by the hop selection fo rthat beer. I think it was perfectly balanced and that is why it kind of surprised me. When I heard you and Walker talking about it beforehand I honestly have to say I wasn't expecting much even though you guys said it was good. I figured it was going to be too boring. It wasn't.


The Bock oyu are talkign about--you mean the one we sampled of oyurs before the fest? That was great. I hadn't ever had a decocted beer before. I did get a bottle of that? I can't wait to sample it again. :)
Walker-san said:
Gaelic ale = :rockin:

This was the very first beer I ever had from North Carolina... about 2 weeks after moving here at a restaurant in Chapel Hill. I thought it was incredible.

Dude, I don't know if you got a chance to grab some Hoppy Hour before you left town. If you didn't, let me know. I could probably ship out a package with Hoppy Hour and Gaelic Ale in it.

-walker

You know...like a ******* I totally blanked on getting beer before we left. I wasn't even hungover either. LOL...especially after the 14 hours of sleep I got. :p

Let me ask our local beer guy if he can get that stuff for me before you go out and spend all that money to ship it. I appreciate the offer though!
 
Dude said:
BTW..the mead was Redstone Meadery's Black Raspberry Nectar. The website gives quite a bit of info about the different meads and such.

http://www.redstonemeadery.com/

I'm wishing I would have spent more time at that table. :(
Dang! That is right in my back yard. I didn't even know it was there. Looks like I will be making a trip up to Boulder! :rockin:
 
Dude said:
The Bock oyu are talkign about--you mean the one we sampled of oyurs before the fest? That was great. I hadn't ever had a decocted beer before. I did get a bottle of that? I can't wait to sample it again. :)

No, I pretty much brought the last 32oz of this beer to the festival. Last night I only get 4oz out of the keg before it was gone. I was surprisesd that it lasted that long anyway since it was expected to be gone at the beginning of April. I'll have to hook you up with the next version of this one. But Salvator (Paulaner), Optimator (Spaten) and Celebrator (Ayinger) are always very good commecial examples of this style.

Kai
 
Dude said:
Yeah, I had 3 awesome IPAs yesterday, and 2 of them I can't remember. They were all down that same row.
Hoppy Hour was outstanding though.
I bet one was Asheville Brewing Co's Shiva IPA. I like most of their beers. There 3-4 more breweries up in the mountains that I really like but they didn't show...lots of great APA's. Maybe they'll come to Durham, I'm sure they'll be at Asheville.
 
Also forgot to mention Terrapin's (Atlanta) Rye PA. Walker and I loved it...Dude said it was good but definitely second fiddle to Hop Rod (which we're deprived of and have never tried down here).
 
ANY brewer (home or otherwise) worth their weight in hops is going to want to improve their beers and therefore be open to input and constructive criticism. I don't think a beer festival is a great place for this, but I always TRIED to be open to the evaluations of others. I figure it is better to hear the bad news straight from the customers mouth then to hear it through their closed wallets down the road.

There are tactful ways to say a beer tastes like crap. You can say it has fecal overtones instead :cross: Actually e-mail is a great way to pass on problems.

I say tell the breweries what you think and if they don't want to listen then it is their problem.
 
Today I also figured out that the slight off-smell, that is present in Helles Angel (a light lager produces by a Raleigh Microbrewery) is actually DMS. It is only a hint, but clearly present.

I really start to wonder if this problem is even more common than I thought. Since it will only be detectable in lighter beers (lagers and light Ales with no or very little hop aroma) it only seems to be a problem for breweries that produce such beers but may be present in an even greater number of breweries itself.

On another brewing board, I one read that some commercial German breweries cool the wort down to 175F to avoid the formation of DMS in the whirlpool while the hot wort is sitting there during the whilpool rest. Due to the absence of a boil, this DMS cannot be driven out before the wort goes to the fermenter.

This is not a problem for home brewers with immersion chillers. Since I don't see this problem being reported here at all, I even doubt if it is a problem for HBers with counterflow chillers. Probably because none of them is letting the hot wort sit in the kettle for to long.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
This is not a problem for home brewers with immersion chillers. Since I don't see this problem being reported here at all, I even doubt if it is a problem for HBers with counterflow chillers. Probably because none of them is letting the hot wort sit in the kettle for to long.

Kai
I honestly wouldn't know DMS if it hit me in the face. I would be very interested in tasting a beer that has it. I use an immersion chiller and I have no idea if I get DMS. The beers I've made lately have been pretty clean so who knows.
 
RichBrewer said:
I honestly wouldn't know DMS if it hit me in the face. I would be very interested in tasting a beer that has it. I use an immersion chiller and I have no idea if I get DMS. The beers I've made lately have been pretty clean so who knows.

You'd definitely know it. Imagine pouring the juice from a can of corn in your glass. Yuck.

I think diacetyl is much more subtle, DMS kicks you in the face.
 
Dude said:
You'd definitely know it. Imagine pouring the juice from a can of corn in your glass. Yuck.

I think diacetyl is much more subtle, DMS kicks you in the face.
OK now I'm going to drink the juice from a can of corn. The things I'll do for home brewing!:rockin:

I don't ever remember smelling or tasting anything like this in my beers so maybe I've lucked out
 
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