How does a Noob to All Grain learn the Grains?

I wish to begin all grain brewing shortly.

I am very lost when it comes to the different varieties of base and specialty grain, and how I would go about learning the differences between the various grains, the ratios of combinations of these grains, the interactions of these grains with different hops, the interaction of these grains with different yeasts, etc.

It is nice to see that there will be so many combinations, but I'm not even sure of how to approach this.

Given that I have 8 carboys, I could theoretically do some hard core experiments. For example, from How to Brew, there are 4 base grains/malts: lager, pale ale, wheat, and rye. Thus I could do 4 batches using 100% of a single base malt. I could then do 50% mixes of Lager/Pale, Lager/Wheat, Lager/Rye, Pale/Wheat, Pale/Rye, Wheat/Rye. I could then do 25/75 mixes of the above and vice versa.

Ok that sounds way fun, but which yeast and hops would I chose for this? I would obviously want to use the same yeast and hops for this tasting experiment so I could learn the grains. But I think I would want to chose a yeast/hops that is rather shy and wouldn't radically alter the taste of the yeast.

Now base malts would be easier to learn since there is only 4 of them and thus 6 ways to combine them at 50% ratios, or 12 ways at 25/75% ratios.

However, introducing the non-base grains increases the number of combinations dramatically. I won't even begin to calculate how many batches it would take to learn how these specialty grains interact with the base grains at which ratios.

How does a beginner to All Grain learn the grains!?

You could experiment with 1 gallon batches. I copied this idea but to get more familiar i bought a 12er of bud light(yea i know) and 12 different hops. I dropped in a few pellets into each one, recapped and let them sit for 4 days then tasted each one to see how they compared to me.

You might be overthinking a bit. And you probably don't want to have to get through 60 gallons of 'experiment' beer, especially funky things like all-rye. Not that it couldn't be made well, but it's very far outside the mainstream. I'd suggest you do some styles you like, but add small amounts of the grains you're interested in -- add 2 lb of rye to an IPA, which is otherwise just 2-row and some crystal. Or try a pale that's half wheat and the same recipe that's all barley.

Also, do you mean pilsner malt when you say lager? There are also a whole bunch of other base malts to play with, e.g., Munich, Vienna, Maris Otter, Golden Promise.... But I'd keep the super experimental batches to 1 gal.

When I think of base grains, I think of:
Maris Otter
2 Row
Pale
Pilsen
Vienna
Munich (10L not 20L)
Golden Promise

You could do a 100% malted wheat or rye beer but the mash would be difficult.

You could do a bunch of SMASHs. But if bit were me, I'd pick a beer from a style that emphases each of the base malts:
Scottish: Golden Promise
Bitter: Maris Otter
APA: 2 Row or Pale
Pilsner: Pilsen
Vienna: Vienna
Marzen/Bock: Munich

A Hefe is a good 50-50 Pilsen-Wheat beer.

You are most definitely over thinking it. Beer is simple, hence why I can brew it. I mastered extract then moved to all grain with great results.

First, what beers did you love that you did extract? Why not try to replicate them or make them better using all grain?

Next, what about an awesome clone with your own twist? I've been enamored with one particular brewery's milk stout, so I set out to duplicate it all grain.

A lot of this depends on where you get your grains and what style of beer you want to brew. Start with a couple batches, attempting to make some beer you will like and your friends will say 'wow' to.

There are GREAT recipes on this site, as well as BrewToad.com.

Most homebrew stores allow you to chew on some grain to get an idea. I know a lot of people do smash (single malt and single hop) recipes to get to know base malts, hops and yeast strains.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

A book! Designing great beers! Best there is really to get you started IMO

Agreed on that book! I love it! But I have to admit in more hands in and like to test flavors myself because one persons description of it could be a little different than your own tastes


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Experiment. it'll only cost you 12.00 for 10 lbs or so. I usually do a 9 lb of 2 row and 1 lb of crystal 10 for a simple beer. once you have this under your belt you can try different recipes and use software like brew target to get better at it!

two row is the base malt and youll just add to that, crystal 10 will give a light color with small sweetness and next time try crystal 70, it will be darker with more sweetness,

aafter 10 batches youll be an expert

SMASH - look it up!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

There are a lot more than 4 base grains!

You could spend a ton of time on trying them all. Basically, there are similarities between different "types"- like US two-row is relatively plain. UK varieties (maris otter, golden promise) tend to be a bit "breadier". German malts vary a bit based on type, but they tend to be "continental" in flavor- that is as expected with a clean flavor. Some, like Munich malt (both the US and German versions) are very "malty" in flavor compared to general US two-row.

One way to look at it is to just see where the grains are made, and that will give a clue. Also, the flavor descriptors help alot.

Wheat and rye, and other grains like corn, are special grains that are used for their characteristics but it would be very rare to have 100% of any of those.

Designing Great Beers is a great book, but there is more information available than the usual noob brewer can even understand. I have been brewing almost three years, and my wife got it for me as a gift, as I had already blown through every book available for two counties at their libraries. As an example, pick a style and look it up. DGB tells what the predominant grain was, the second grain, and third, etc., percentage wise to see what beers that got to at least the second round in National Judging were using a similar grain bill, and which weren't used as often.

Interesting thread, I'm curious, but more as to opinions of base malt differences by the maltsters. I've left extract behind and have a few AG under my belt, now just bought a grain mill (cereal killer its called) and picked up a 50# sack of GW 2 row. I mostly brew IPAs and stout/porters (which will use Thomas Fawcett I suppose, e.g. want to clone a Founder's breakfast stout). So my hope was this thread was for opinions on maltsters and use to type (thanks Beernik for your opinion!).

Don't mean to hijack your thread Matthew, so will start a new one if this to off topic!

Cheers

I agree with what several people have already said. What you listed as base malt isn't really accurate. You'll want to try several different versions of 2-row (American 2-row, pale malt, pale ale malt, Maris Otter, Golden Promise, Munich, etc.) and then just use wheat, rye, oats, corn, rice, and whatever else at smaller percentages.

I've been making my own recipes or at least altering recipe kits for a while now. My first beer from my own recipe was what many people would call muddled. I went for too much of too many flavors. I still really enjoyed it, and it got better and better as it aged (it was a big beer). I drank the last bottle about 18 months after brewing it, and it was delicious.

IMO, the best route to figuring out which grains you like is to think about what your extract recipes used. I used Northern Brewer's extract most of the time, when I did extract. So, I knew that if I used the Maris Otter extract in a recipe, I'd try out Maris Otter grain in an all-grain version. If I used the Gold LME in a recipe, then I knew I should use American 2-row and some crystal malts. Then also think about which specialty/steeping grains were included in your extract recipes. Unless you've done 100% extract and never steeped any grains, you should have some experience with at least a few specialty grains.

So, take that knowledge and just try out some grains. Read the descriptions and try out the ones that sound good. I've tried things in sometimes weird combinations, and still felt like I could pick out which grain was adding which flavors.

If you don't trust yourself to identify flavors with specific grains, then just do simpler recipes. Do a couple SMaSH batches. Then, start adding one specialty grain. And so on.

The really involved, systematic experiments can give you a thorough knowledge of certain grains. But I like to brew beer that I like to drink, so I've just played around with some grains while making styles that I like.

With my Porter recipe, I've played around with the amount of Chocolate malt I use, and I've gotten a good idea of how much would be too much. With a couple pale ales and amber ales, I've gotten pretty close to figuring out how much (and what kind of) crystal malt fits my taste.

There's no 'right' way to figure this out. You just have to decide which kind of approach fits your goals and taste in beer.

going AG doesn't necessarily mean you need to invent every recipe you make, unless you want to, of course. my LHBS has the same AG recipes as the extract versions I was making.

I recommend that you try to recreate the extract recipes that you love, but this time using all grain. Once you're happy there, do some SMASH brews, or branch out a little bit and use different adjunct grains on some of your old standbys. Now that I have 25 or so all-grains under my belt, I have an easier time varying my recipes to try different things.

It's kind of like cooking - once you get a hang for the basics, you can start throwing in a little of this and a little of that. Be careful though, because - much like cooking - it's pretty easy to wind up with too much going on in your beer.

I say..."BREW!". If your like me, you started brewing because the "mainstream" beers are unsatisfactory.
I have been doing this for 1 year, and I am still experimenting. Base malts, caramel malts, special malts, roasted malts, adjucts, candi syrups, yeast strains, fermentation temps, mash schedules...a home brewer could spend a lifetime experimenting. And what fun it is!
Sure, I have a few books too. But I need to "taste" the beers to truely know the differences. I share my "experiments" with friends and family. So far, they love being guinea pigs!

My first few AG batches were the SMASH variety to get a feel for a few base grains. Then a couple of wheat + pale ale malt + crystal, different hops and yeast. The next few batches have been clones (or highly inspired by) from the recipe section on the forum. That's got my fermenters full right now. Next up? Another SMASH recipe or two with a different mash temp and different hops than the first time around.

Switching it up seems to provide a good balance of ending up with known quality from the recipes others have been kind enough to share, experimentation to get a feel for different grains / hops / yeast, and keeping a nice mixed inventory of stock on hand.

My very first batch was all grain and I've never done anything but. There have been a lot of good suggestions so far:

First, don't overthink it. Your local store will likely let you chew on a few to get a sense of the flavors you'll get.
Read books and look at recipes. Compare extract recipes to the equivalent all grain recipe to see how the extract compares to the grain.
The Brewing Elements book "Malt" is due out in September (I say this only to add it to your reading list later).

Talk to your local brewers. Start with a recipe you like. Decide how you'd like to augment or change the flavor and ask how to do it. Ask what adding Maris Otter would do versus Munich will do.

And when you start to change your recipes, change slowly! My biggest failures have come from changing recipes to fast and going to extremes.