Hoppy beers a trend?

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jbguzzi

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I went to my local grocer this morning to hopefully pick up an Enjoy By from Stone, i have not tried one yet and kept missing them after being sold out. Anyhow, I was talking to the wine/beer tender and he went off saying how he could not wait till people stopped calling him asking when Pliney and other once in a while big IPA's have come in, i smugly said "get used to it" and then he went off saying that hoppy beers are a trend and the pendulum will swing back when people want their palette back! I smiled and walked away. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There may be some truth to that, but I thought it was funny. I personally enjoy many styles of beer, hopped crazy or very mild. Just thought I would share.
 
Nice. I've noticed that as well about a year ago and a half ago when i started getting deep into malt beers. All my friends were giving me palette splitters with IBU's upwards of 70+. Ive come into my own as a malt maniac though but I still wouldn't mind trying some Pliny if I could get my hands on it in this part of the country.
 
it's definitely a trend. a few years ago, almost nobody knew what an ipa was. now they are everywhere. it's good for people who like hoppy beers, but if stores are stocking so many of them there is no room on the shelf for other beers, it's bad for people who like other styles besides the really hoppy ones. I think eventually there will be another big trend, and there will be less ipas and iipas being made, but I doubt they will disappear entirely. too many people like ipa for that, even if they do discover they like other styles, they will still buy ipa sometimes.
 
It does seem like thats all anyone asks about. Especially the "beer guys". I tend to look on the IPA craze like I do the "real beer" BMC guys.
I'll be happy when the chatter levels off. Of course ambers and pales are as hoppy as I tend to go.
 
I see it as a trend. Sure every brewery will produce an IPA and a lot will produce it as their signature beer. But I have noticed a lot of my friends who were IPA only people are ordering other beers. The problem is that so many IPAs out there are just plain old BAD. Only bittering knock you in the face with hops and not really all that drinkable. We like to sit at a table or in someones garage and enjoy what we are drinking, not drink it because it has the highest IBUs or because it has some new hops. Around here Belgian beers are really starting to take off. Whether Abbey Styles or Farmhouse beers.
 
I agree. The IPA trend is starting to see some leveling off here. Most of my beer buddies are "over it" and moving to other pastures now. I was never a big fan of hoppy beers, preferring more malty and a sweeter finish.
 
Hopefully, with the overall growth of Craft, as the market grows in variety, hoppy beers won't decline in production, but maybe in Craft share.

I love a IIPA or American Barleywine, but there's so many wonderful beers I don't limit myself for sure.
 
I'm not a fan really of IPAs or really hoppy beers. I've gotten weird looks at bars and liquor stores because of this. This is kind of the reason I don't have the desire to go to another beer "fest"
 
it's good for people who like hoppy beers, but if stores are stocking so many of them there is no room on the shelf for other beers, it's bad for people who like other styles besides the really hoppy ones.

This is excatly what I run into. I'd say about 60% of the shelf space in my beer shop is IPA or IIPA, with only about 5-10% for all other styles. Kinda pisses me off cuz Stouts and Scotch Ale's (my favs) onlet get a small three shelf section that holds about 2 or 3 different sixers on each.

Malt Maniacs demand more shelf space! :tank:
 
Two types of people:

1. Those who like hoppy beers.
2. Those who are wrong. :)

j/k. I hope that the "trend" never goes away. Hops are amazing - the more the better.
 
I love all the responses, it is interesting getting a take from folks who brew. It has changed how i view beers in general. I think good IPAs will withstand the hop craziness, with Pliny leading the pack and relatively pedestrian examples that are superb like Alesmith's IPA will stick around without the hype. I think its fun, and i love hoppy beers, but I can see other styles getting second shelf to bombastic terrible examples of overly hopped brews when they should not. Consumerism at its finest!
 
I love IPAs and hoppy beer but it is like the Chopper motorcycle craze of the early 2000s (American Chopper and Biker Build off are a few examples). People are all into it and things go from normal to extreme and then suddenly they lose interest. It will happen with IPAs as well they will never go away just taper off and the next big thing will come out. Just like the Cafe Racer trend in motorcycles now nobody cared about it a few years ago now people are paying insane money for the most extreme Cafe Racer the can get. Sorry to use motorcycle analogies but it is all I could think of right now.
 
This is why I like Pale Ales (English or American). Hop presence, flavor and aroma without overwhelming the malt balance like an IPA.
 
Not a new trend at all. Hoppy IPAs have been around for years. If you dislike them now, force yourseld to try and brew them over and over again and they're more like an addiction.
 
I appreciate most styles of beer, but I want intensely flavorful IPA's in my glass 90% of the time. I really dont care what anyone else wants and frankly a decrease in hop demand(and price) would be welcomed by this brewer.

I think its less of a trend that the easiest entry point for a lot of craft beer neophytes and there will always be more of the less experienced beer drinkers than the high-falutin alcoholics that most of us are.

Now the question as to why hop forward beers seem to be the most popular entry point to craft beer is the more interesting question and I don't think its supply driven BTW.

Also...WTF..it's a 5 letter word....PLINY, say it with me P-L-I-N-Y...why is it so hard for people to spell.
 
I've tried Pliny... not impressed- take a decent craft beer- pour it into a pint glass and dump some of your fresh grass clippings in it and you have Pliny...

When I go to a brew pub or brewery I always ask them... "what is your best?" They always suggest the IPA... the @#$%ing IPA! Since when did good beer mean high alcohol and an overdose of hops? Hopefully things will come back around and there will be more session-type beers with an emphasis on malt and flavor and balance rather than vegetable matter and ABV %...
 
I've tried Pliny... not impressed- take a decent craft beer- pour it into a pint glass and dump some of your fresh grass clippings in it and you have Pliny...

When I go to a brew pub or brewery I always ask them... "what is your best?" They always suggest the IPA... the @#$%ing IPA! Since when did good beer mean high alcohol and an overdose of hops? Hopefully things will come back around and there will be more session-type beers with an emphasis on malt and flavor and balance rather than vegetable matter and ABV %...

Disagree 1000%. I'm sorry you had a single bad experience with Pliny. But a fresh to death bottle, or a draft run from clean lines, is like sipping on Angel's tears. It sounds like you 1) dislike IPAs or 2) dislike hops... perhaps both? IPAs are not supposed to be balanced. Their unique offering of unbalance, held against a huge array of balanced beer styles, is what makes them special.

Pliny is one of the few extremely well made IIPAs on par with the likes of Heady Topper. Both have a lot of that dank marijuana goodness that so many other IIPAs fail to harness.
 
I find as a homebrewer I've spent the majority of my time brewing ales and ipa's, which I enjoy, but they are now kind of a routine and the brewing of them has become rather boring. I just brewed my first milk stout yesterday and I'm excited to see how it turns out. Not that it was a more difficult recipe, just different. I think that will be the way of things, just like the pendulum analogy. You can only drink hop bombs for so long before you just get tired of it and want something different.

And if I can preach just a minute longer, it is kind of the American way to do things. Something new comes along and we jam it down our throats as much, and as often, as we can until we are sick of it. Then 10/20 years later, we revive it and start all over. And in the interim those that remain hop-heads will become the purists and mock the newcomers saying that they've stayed true all along and get pissy over others drinking "their" beer. Just my observation on the American culture. Not knocking it, just keeping it "real".
 
Disagree 1000%. I'm sorry you had a single bad experience with Pliny. But a fresh to death bottle, or a draft run from clean lines, is like sipping on Angel's tears. It sounds like you 1) dislike IPAs or 2) dislike hops... perhaps both? IPAs are not supposed to be balanced. Their unique offering of unbalance, held against a huge array of balanced beer styles, is what makes them special.

Pliny is one of the few extremely well made IIPAs on par with the likes of Heady Topper. Both have a lot of that dank marijuana goodness that so many other IIPAs fail to harness.

+1

I like most styles of beer but I have to say that the IPA and IIPA are my favorite styles. I'm looking forward to when Russian River starts distributing to Texas.
 
I can't believe someone said a few years ago you could not find hoppy beers ... UNTRUE. I do believe that extra hoppy beers are a fad a beer drinker goes through however. Too much hops is too much hops, just like too much of anything else is unbalanced. Put one of those POS beers on my table and I'll judge it a dismal failure as quickly as an infected beer.

I neither love or hate hops - they are a part of beer, just a part. All things in balance.
 
Call it a trend...say it's here to say. I say it doesn't matter cause I will drink that and other beer varietals all day long...although I must say,...I would never wait in line hours for beer! There are jut too damn many beautiful beers out there!

So,...pour a damn glass, hold it up and drink my friends!
 
My biggest problem is that most IPAs I've had have the same exact character. C hops, maybe a little crystal, that's about it. I truly love an ipa that it's different like Sumthin' Sumthin' or SN Celebration. I hate how when I go to my grocery store my selection is this: ipa, apa, light lager, dry stout. Gimme some malt bombs, barleywines, dubbels, tripels, bocks, something! I like variety, if I wanted the same thing no matter what brand I went with, I'd consider going with light lager. At least those are made consistently.

I love a good ipa but how am I supposed to turn people on to good beer by punching them with a pine cone citrus bomb? The next trend I'm seeing is Belgian style beers and the more delicate approach is welcome here.

The thing I do like about ipas is that most craft beer styles are doing more than a nod to the hops for bittering. Hops are a great ingredient and there is so much unexplored territory there. I can't wait for craft brewers to use new hops you produce more than your standard ipa.
 
I do believe that extra hoppy beers are a fad a beer drinker goes through however. Too much hops is too much hops, just like too much of anything else is unbalanced. Put one of those POS beers on my table and I'll judge it a dismal failure as quickly as an infected beer.

I neither love or hate hops - they are a part of beer, just a part. All things in balance.

Disagreed again. I think most people learn that hoppy dry bitter beers are an acquired taste. Like Coffee or Scotch, you don't normally love IIPAs immediately. But when they grow on you, they stay with you, and you yearn for more.

I also don't agree with the whole balance descriptor for this style. IIPas are supposed to be bitter and all about the hops. That's the whole point. I make an IIPA that uses 16 oz. total hops and everyone who appreciates IIPAs seems to go crazy for it. It's the most unbalanced thing ever, but it's sexy.
 
Disagreed again. I think most people learn that hoppy dry bitter beers are an acquired taste. Like Coffee or Scotch, you don't normally love IIPAs immediately. But when they grow on you, they stay with you, and you yearn for more.

I also don't agree with the whole balance descriptor for this style. IIPas are supposed to be bitter and all about the hops. That's the whole point. I make an IIPA that uses 16 oz. total hops and everyone who appreciates IIPAs seems to go crazy for it. It's the most unbalanced thing ever, but it's sexy.

I appreciate you sharing your opinion. It's better when adults can exchange beliefs without running out of facts and resorting to name calling.

I am not wrong that these beers are incorrect for the style. Whether or not you agree that the style is described correctly, I think you need to agree that these beers do not meet them as they are currently documented.

Also, it is improbable that the historic IPA had such a hoppy nose when enjoyed at its destination. I'm also going to go way out on a limb and say that Cascades were not in those beers. Their hops were not stored in hermetically sealed, light proof packages, nor did they pelletize. There's nearly no way that they could ever have consistently enjoyed what passes for an IPA today.

When I started brewing many moons ago we had the same trend. The only difference now is that when we had to use Compuserve and communicate with each other, it cost a lot of money so we did not pontificate or brag about our excesses. Now due to sheer volume enough hop-heads can gather and reach critical mass and convince themselves that as a style this makes sense. I believe some people prefer it, that's fine. It is not however true to any style except perhaps a new one not yet documented.

You mention acquired taste. I wonder (not trying to pick a fight) if it's just not desensitizing yourself?
 
You mention acquired taste. I wonder (not trying to pick a fight) if it's just not desensitizing yourself?

I think that you should know better than that... being a beer judge and all, and tasting a variety of styles and takes on styles. It's kind of like being a Scotch judge. The newb might only taste disgusting harsh oak, just as an IIPA newb may only sense a rough blanket bitterness full of lawn clippings. However, the trained palate can sense much more than that. If anything, I think my palate has grown due to IPA appreciation. I can detect subtle nuances that I was never able to in the past.

I feel that IPA haters just fall back on the "desensitizing" excuse to support their own opinion about the style. If you try to appreciate a nice balanced English brown ale right after you had a highly bitter American IIPA, well then there is a problem. But hoppy bitter beers do not cause permanent palate densensitation.
 
You misunderstand me -I have a taste for a real IPA. I think that overpowering a beer with a single ingredient, any ingredient, is a flaw. It is no different than an over-oaked Chardonay, or Scotch malt which is over-done with peat smoke. Too much sugar coffee is too much sugar, it does not enhance it.

To me it is no different than drowning food in salt. Some salt enhances and balances. To much is just salty.
 
Interestingly enough, unlike spiciness which we do grow tolerant of the more we consume, bitterness stays just as bitter no matter how much we consume, other than normal palette cleansing type tolerance.

I thought of a couple more examples of ipa derivations that I'd like to see more of since the market is saturated with the same type of one note IPAs: Cascadian Dark Ales and Fuggle ipa by Shipyard.
 
You misunderstand me -I have a taste for a real IPA. I think that overpowering a beer with a single ingredient, any ingredient, is a flaw. It is no different than an over-oaked Chardonay, or Scotch malt which is over-done with peat smoke. Too much sugar coffee is too much sugar, it does not enhance it.

To me it is no different than drowning food in salt. Some salt enhances and balances. To much is just salty.

What is a real American IPA to you? Something completely balanced with malt and hops? That sounds like an ESB to me.

IPAs are supposed to be hop forward, but I have never had an American IPA that was overpowering in a bad sense. I think a few stellar commercial examples have proved that there is no fault in being blasted with pure bitter grapefruit as opposed to something more complex and layered. This is what the brewer intended and you either like it, or you don't.

I don't know that you can over-oak a Chardonnay. It sits in the barrels like any other oaked wine. It's not like they're adding more oak chips to the bottle or adding some kind of magical oak compound directly to the wine. Please don't confuse someone's sensitivity and aversion toward oak with the wine being too young, or over-oaked as you claim. Same thing with peat. Have you ever had an Islay Scotch? Talk about overpowering peat, but they are regarded as some of the best in the world by connoisseurs. With coffee, it depends on the person's preference. Some like it black and bitter. Some like it sweet and creamy. Who are we to say what should be the standard for everyone? However, we can factually claim that black coffee is naturally bitter and roasty. This is the norm and it is accepted.

In short, your above analogies don't really work. You're looking at the use of hops in IPAs the wrong way. They are not meant to strike a balance with this style. It is the one style where the hops are meant to take the forefront and offer a beautiful form of unbalance that oddly enough works very well. Don't think of it in terms of balance. Think of it in terms of heightened hop flavor and aroma despite the heavier than normal focus on bitterness, instead of a complete balance of bitterness and sweetness.
 
Some folks like hoppy beers just like some folks like sugar in their coffee. Neither one is wrong and both are right for the people who are drinking it.

For my taste buds and I only brew for to my taste I do not like hoppy beers but a balanced beer with low alcohol level. I keep the IBU around 30 and the SG at under 1.040.

Since I brew for my taste buds I do not worry about entering any contests nor do I care what others think of my beer. Many like it and a few do not but that is just fine with me. Will my beer ever win a award...Heck no it will not. I will never enter it in a competition but I do not brew to impress others but brew what I like.

You guys that like hoppy beers rock on with it. But remember just because you like it does not mean that others have to like it.
 
Interestingly enough, unlike spiciness which we do grow tolerant of the more we consume, bitterness stays just as bitter no matter how much we consume, other than normal palette cleansing type tolerance.
I went looking for any studies done but my Google-Fu was weak last night I guess. I'd be interested to read them if you can find references.

I thought of a couple more examples of ipa derivations that I'd like to see more of since the market is saturated with the same type of one note IPAs: Cascadian Dark Ales and Fuggle ipa by Shipyard.
I agree here - the original IPAs rather than the APA's ... APAs have dominated the market. I think that's a shame since the more traditional hops have a depth of character hard to exhibit with New-World hops.

What is a real American IPA to you? Something completely balanced with malt and hops? That sounds like an ESB to me.
"Balanced" means (at least to me) balanced for the style. An American Pale Ale is balanced with an assertive hop character and little to medium maltiness. I've judged and provided what I hope was useful information to maybe a thousand brewers and these have been in nearly all of the styles (at least as they were described several years back). I get what they are supposed to be, I resist the tendency of some breweries to cater to the "ultimate" crowd where if more is good, too much is better. It is a distinctly American thing it seems.

The arch-typical American Pale Ale is something like Sierra Nevada, at least how it was brewed when I took my test. Another I have had most recently that I thought was exemplary of the style was Full Sail. I am talking about the class "American Pale Ale" (10A).

I think a few stellar commercial examples have proved that there is no fault in being blasted with pure bitter grapefruit as opposed to something more complex and layered.
This is where I disagree. Some specialty grains should be present in the background. It has to have enough malt to support the hops. In an American IPA this is a different balance of course but the character has to be there. Some of the "extreme" examples I have had in the past have had no other real character except hops and carbonation.

I don't know that you can over-oak a Chardonnay. It sits in the barrels like any other oaked wine. It's not like they're adding more oak chips to the bottle or adding some kind of magical oak compound directly to the wine.
You absolutely can - it has to do with the preparation of the oak, and the ratio of surface area exposed. An overly-assertive oak character may be due to the wine needing to be aged longer, or it may be simply a poorly-done wine. The same is true of these American IPAs. An IPA was intended to be preserved somewhat, so aging is a classic part of the profile. A properly aged beer for the profile is important, and then the most classic examples will be dry-hopped by the publican (in a classic IPA of course) to really give a fresh hop nose.

I think some of these extreme beers lack the character needed to support the hops - that's my only point. It may be as the brewer intended but that does not mean the brewer should be brewing for public consumption.

We have yet to name either a good or bad "extreme" IPA however. How about this: You give me an example of one that exhibits this sort of character and I'll go find it and give it a fair tasting. I can't recall the name of any of those that I have not liked, and in so many years I have definitely fallen off my earlier efforts to document everything, so I admittedly have nothing with which to support my assertion. I'll take your lead. Seem fair?
 
I went looking for any studies done but my Google-Fu was weak last night I guess. I'd be interested to read them if you can find references.
If I recall correctly, I got that information from a very early audio episode of Basic Brewing Radio (first year) where they talk to an expert on taste buds. It is the same one where the expert says the classic taste bud map shows where the tongue has a stronger sensitivity to different tastes, not that tastes are exclusive to those regions.
 
"Balanced" means (at least to me) balanced for the style. An American Pale Ale is balanced with an assertive hop character and little to medium maltiness.

The arch-typical American Pale Ale is something like Sierra Nevada, at least how it was brewed when I took my test. Another I have had most recently that I thought was exemplary of the style was Full Sail. I am talking about the class "American Pale Ale" (10A).

Lee, just to touch base on what you wrote above, I'm talking about IPAs here, not APAs. Did you think this was an APA thread all along??

An overly-assertive oak character may be due to the wine needing to be aged longer, or it may be simply a poorly-done wine. The same is true of these American IPAs. An IPA was intended to be preserved somewhat, so aging is a classic part of the profile. A properly aged beer for the profile is important, and then the most classic examples will be dry-hopped by the publican (in a classic IPA of course) to really give a fresh hop nose.

Youngness of the wine does not mean that there is more oak in that particular wine than other examples. It just means it is not at it's full potential yet where the oak is rounded out. However, the same mindset IS DEFINITELY NOT TRUE of American IPAs. Aging them is not a part of their profile now. It was back in the 17-1800s when spoilage was an issue from the long trip oversees. But not today. Freshness is key today. I dare you to post a poll about fresh vs. aged IPAs and realize how the majority will vote for the former. Favoring the latter does not make you wrong; it just puts you in the minority.

This is where I disagree. Some specialty grains should be present in the background.

There are plenty of top-rated IPAs brewed without specialty malts, or extremely low amounts of specialty malts. These beers are rated high by everyone from expert judges to the average joe. To say that specialty malts should be present in the background is ridiculous. I shouldn't be the one to have to research these beers for you, but they do exist and are quite easy to find if you look. I also shouldn't be the one to force you to like a style that you obviously have an issue with, or are stuck on past definition about, but it sounds like you're more of a Bells Two Hearted type of guy. A great beer for sure, but rather tame and borderline IPA.

For your convenience:

Smuttynose Finest Kind IPA
Rated 92 out of 100 with over 2,500 reviews
Blasts you with pure grapefruit and grapefruit pith
75 IBUs and 6.9 ABV
3% crystal malt, the rest is some combo of 2-row pale and pils

New Belgium Ranger - 3% crystal malt, the rest is 2-row and sugar

Dogfish 60 & 90 Minute IPAs - NO CRYSTAL

Lagunitas SUCKS - A mix of 3 different base malts, no specialty malts.

I'm currently drinking Schlafly American IPA. It's Simcoe heavy and that is it's only redeeming quality for me now. This used to be one of my favorite IPAs ever. But now when I sip it, I get way too much sweet & toasty Crystal 60, which detracts the hops in a big way. It's safe to say my palate has changed from appreciating the sweeter, more complex IPAs to the drier versions with less jumbling of the main event... The Hops. Dry, bitter, aromatic, hoppy, highly drinkable, clean and simple is what I want. What you want may be the complete opposite of that and that is why we are in disagreement.
 
Lee, just to touch base on what you wrote above, I'm talking about IPAs here, not APAs. Did you think this was an APA thread all along??
It has gone back and forth I think it's fair to say. :) So far I have not seen a real IPA named, they have been all APA's (but I did not go back and re-read all the posts).

Youngness of the wine does not mean that there is more oak in that particular wine than other examples. It just means it is not at it's full potential yet where the oak is rounded out.
Not exactly what I said ... I said if a wine tastes over-oaked it may be because it needs more time, it also may mean it's just got too much oak in it period. There's a reason people apprentice for a good long time for this sort of job.

I dare you to post a poll about fresh vs. aged IPAs and realize how the majority will vote for the former.
Polls have no place in judging beer. If it did, Budweiser would be the best beer in the country.

There are plenty of top-rated IPAs brewed without specialty malts, or extremely low amounts of specialty malts.
I'm betting more have specialty malts than not - that or some other feature that creates a deeper malt character (long boil, decoction, etc.). Specialty malts are far less expensive so I assume them to be more common that the latter methods. And yes they will have low levels, but there will be some character way way back there to keep your tongue from going to sleep out of fatigue.

I shouldn't be the one to have to research these beers for you
I am quite capable of choosing my own beer - what I asked is an example of what YOU are talking about right now because in some places we seem to agree and I'd hate for us to be talking about the same thing.

I also shouldn't be the one to force you to like a style that you obviously have an issue with, or are stuck on past definition about
Here you are completely wrong. I judge beer to published styles, I drink beer, wine and mead I like. As a matter of fact I used to avoid judging those styles I liked in order that I did not go with my heart rather than merit.

Whether you personally prefer it or not, Bell's is a better beer to style than a Smuttynose (have had both lately). Now if you prefer simply hops (or a lot of sugar in your coffee as the analogy we used earlier) then I can see why you prefer Smuttynose. Brewed to style the Bell's is a better beer.

Dogfish is more an Imperial American IPA, the complexity of the malt character comes from what I would guess is a longer boil - but that character is there whether from crystal or not. I did not enjoy the 90 in a bottle near as much as I did when I had it on tap but that could have been from handling. I do think it is over-hopped but overall a good beer.

I'm also very familiar with the Schlafly line which is likewise much better on tap (I have had it recently in their taproom. I did find it a little more "resinous" than the dogfish. I wish I had taken notes on these because I am left with the impression that I would pick the Dogfish over the Schlafly but other than remembering that resinous taste I don't remember why.

For what it's worth, back in the early 90's I helped consult on some of what became the Schlafly line. I also placed in a competition which was intended to determine a beer to be brewed as a specialty line there. Mine was not the winner but I had a beer several years later that tasted awfully familiar. I won't say which because I don't know for sure it was my recipe or if my recipe influenced it at all. It would be cool if it was mine but I think I'd rather not know for sure. :)

None of these are "extreme IPAs" in my mind. I have had some which I cannot recall right now but perhaps if I go searching the names will jump back out at me. Maybe it's best that the names don't come to mind because someone here will have them as a favorite.

As far as favorites go - I do not have a favorite beer. Possibly my preferred beer in the APA style on the shelf currently is Zombie Dust. American hops are not my favorite personally, but this is an excellent beer. It is not complex in the way some London ales are for instance, but it is suitably complex for the style which is what I look for.

One of the best real IPA's I've had is Jadpur (I think that's the right name). I had it while overseas not long ago. In the states one of the best examples I've had is Blackheart. Another excellent one I've only had once (maybe it's only regional?) is 1800 Old English IPA from Minneapolis Town Hall Brewery. I had this while up in MN last year. I do prefer British hops over American hops, so this may be why I preferred these.

To bring this back full circle, what is an "extreme" hopped beer? Are we defining this by the style? I find it amusing the description currently published:

: A recent American innovation reflecting the trend of American craft brewers “pushing the envelope” to satisfy the need of hop aficionados for increasingly intense products.

There is now a defined style for these types, but you seem to take exception to my mention of styles calling them a "past definition." That is what I am talking about - American tendency (and I am American) to constantly go to extremes. The hottest hot sauce, the smokiest smoked meats, the coldest swimming holes, the biggest steaks, Super Size everything. Someone will push this envelope and folks will have this argument again about how great it is and how people like me don't understand, or maybe they should go back and have a "wimpy Pliney's".

Some of these beers are now pushing the limits of what tastes like a beer and not a hop soda. These are simply bad beers, not "extreme." Everything you have mentioned so far is a pretty good beer. Some of the other folks who are now quiet and content to watch us on our soapboxes are not talking about these good beers - and they will not now that this discussion veered from name-calling (thankfully). There are some crappy beers out there (I had a number at Hopfest) which have hops for the sake of having hops. Going back to how I started THESE are not good beers, and will not be no matter how many people think they are.
 
It seems that I am fighting a losing battle with you due to stubbornness and misinformation. It's good to know we're all human though!! Who knew BJCP judges could have it completely wrong beer-wise, and even worse, over-generalize an entire population of people? You really have to get over your hate for the big American influence on this style and just respect the beer for what it is. Try to be a little more objective. I strongly urge you to try more IPAs and read more about the evolution of the style instead of relying on your same old opinions and being so reluctant to change. PM me if you want to continue this discussion, hopefully for the sake of breaking your unwavering preconceived ideas about IPAs.

Cheers :mug:
 
It seems that I am fighting a losing battle with you due to stubbornness and misinformation.
Who knew I would never change the opinion of a person who has chosen the name for himself?

Who knew BJCP judges could have it completely wrong beer-wise, and even worse, over-generalize an entire population of people.
I am not currently a BJCP judge (I don't think, I have not judged a sanctioned competition in a while).

PM me if you want to continue this discussion, hopefully for the sake of breaking your unwavering preconceived ideas about IPAs.
As opposed to your open-minded flexibility I assume? ;)
 
Who knew I would never change the opinion of a person who has chosen the name for himself?.

It's you who needs change my negative friend. You're being held back and denying that others who are more positive and more aware of the style may actually be more correct.

Unlike yourself, I personally love and appreciate EVERY beer style. I have nothing bad to say about any of them. IPAs are just my favorite.

I am not currently a BJCP judge (I don't think, I have not judged a sanctioned competition in a while).

That explains things a lot better.

As opposed to your open-minded flexibility I assume?

I'm always up for "intellectual debate"... But it is the intellectual part of that phrase that matters more than a slew of fragmented & misinformed opinions. I have no problem owning if I am wrong about something if it is indeed the case. Can you say the same?
 
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