Yeast killing

How long will it take for potassium sorbate to kill yeast?

strictly speaking it doesn't kill them. from jack keller's website:

Sulfite, by itself, does not actually kill off the yeast. Instead it creates an environment increasingly hostile to yeast and deadly to most other microorganisms such as bacteria. Wine yeasts, however, can be quite tolerant of sulfites. For that reason a stabilizer is also added to the wine.

Potassium sorbate, sold as a chemical or behind a product name such as Sorbistat K, is a commercial wine stabilizer that should be used in conjunction with Campden. In other words, it works better with sulfites present than without, and it works better than sulfites alone. Potassium sorbate disrupts the reproductive cycle of yeast. Yeasts present are unable to reproduce and their population slowly diminishes through attrition.

Guthrie said:

How long will it take for potassium sorbate to kill yeast?

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the only way to KILL the yeast is to pasteurize.

So even if I add campden tablets the yeast still may start up when I add sugar to backsweeten.

To pasteurize, is boiling the only method?

When done at the correct time, campden and sorbate are effective ways to stabilize, BUT the yeast population must be minimal, in other words the wine or cider must be clear when you add them. Once added give it 12 -24 hours than back-sweeten then give it 3 days to a week to confirm that fermentation has not started back up.

I HATE chemicals and I hate the fact that there is a chance ( keep in mind that it is a very small chance when done correctly probably less than 1%) that the chemicals will not work and the ferment will start back up again. It is for those reasons that I pasteurize.

It is important to note pasteurization IS NOT BOILING. Will boiling pasteurize? yes but it is like trying to hang a picture with a sledge hammer, it will work but not very well. The reason for this is a little bit of heat will not only kill the yeast and any other bacteria present but also help speed up the aging time, but a lot of heat will change the chemical composition which in most cases will alter the flavor in a negative way.

There are basically two pasteurization methods easily done by the home brewer: bulk pasteurization and bottle pasteurization. (there are tons of other methods that don't even involve heat but they are not easily done at home) Bottle pasteurization is explained in great detail in a sticky at the top of the cider forum. Bulk pasteurization is a s follows:

rack the wine or cider in to a stock pot and place it on the stove with a candy thermometer in the liquid. Turn on the heat and let it get up to 140º F then cover with a lid, turn the heat off and let it cool. From there you can rack in to bottles. It is a piece of cake and works beautifully???

Pasteurizing prior to bottling? Interesting. Does pasteurizing prior to bottling cause a higher SRM? Seems like the sugars might caramelize a little.

"SRM" ??? I am not familiar with that particular acronym. I could be mistaken but I believe caramelization does not even start until higher temps, say above 200º and I am 99% sure that caramelization, at least with table sugar and water, doesn't happen until the water boils off so by doing it at 140º F max there is no chance of caramelization.

Thanks guys, I myself am not a fan of chemicals so I think I'll try this bulk pasteurizing method.

Daze said:

"SRM" ???

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Standard Reference Method. It's color system beer brewers use to categorize beer color. (like lovibond I think)

I wouldn't worry about the final color of your cider too much if it tastes good. My opinion is that ciders aren't pigeon-holed into very specific categories as much as beer is.

Daze said:

"SRM" ??? I am not familiar with that particular acronym. I could be mistaken but I believe caramelization does not even start until higher temps, say above 200º and I am 99% sure that caramelization, at least with table sugar and water, doesn't happen until the water boils off so by doing it at 140º F max there is no chance of caramelization.

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Don't you need sugar present to caramelize anyway? Pasteurizing a dry cider shouldn't have any.of that risk because of the lack of sugars to begin with.

I've used the same sulfites as the skeeter pee recipe calls for in a cider with very good results.

That's:

1/2 teaspoon Potassium metabisulfite
2 1/2 teaspoons of Potassium Sorbate.

That's for 5 gallons.

MC

divi2323 said:

Don't you need sugar present to caramelize anyway? Pasteurizing a dry cider shouldn't have any.of that risk because of the lack of sugars to begin with.

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I was going to make a post and say the exact same thing As I was running errands I was thinking about what I had written and the lack of sugar popped in to my head. Even if I back sweeten I simply add it to the 140º liquid AFTER I turn off the heat.

Daze said:

... It is important to note pasteurization IS NOT BOILING. Will boiling pasteurize? yes ... let it get up to 140º F then cover with a lid...

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I think it's important to add an additional note that the alcohol will begin to boil off at 173°F (before the water/juice) and the vapors are very volatile. Fully boiling is not only unnecessary, but could be explosive as well

I am new at cider making and have two 5 gallon batches that have been aging since November and December respectively. This thread was particularly interesting as I would like to back sweeten a little and was wondering what was the best method to prevent the cider from fermenting once again. The sorbate/sulfite option seems extremely popular when reading these forums yet there are comments about not wishing to use chemicals. Now admittedly I am not ready to attempt to bottle pasteurize so this bulk pasteurizing sounds appealing.

Can the pasteurization process produce any off flavors? Is it worth pasteurizing one batch and using the sulfite-sorbate combination on the other batch?

I have read a ton of articles and perused these forums for some time and this part of the process is very confusing.

Much thanks in advance for any advice.

some of the first ciders I made I did bulk pasteurization. Worked great. I brought the liquid up to 140º, added the sugar to sweeten it than pored it into bottles that had just had boiling water poured out of them and capped it off. By doing the bottling process hot you end up with a nice sterile environment, and a fantastic product IMHO.

Plus, if you keg, you can keg the cider after backsweetening and carbonate if you want sparkling cider.

Daze said:

some of the first ciders I made I did bulk pasteurization. Worked great. I brought the liquid up to 140º, added the sugar to sweeten it than pored it into bottles that had just had boiling water poured out of them and capped it off.

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Thanks for the feedback. Just curious, but do you still follow this practice of pasteurization? I notice that you did so with some of your first ciders. Thanks

ArtV said:

Thanks for the feedback. Just curious, but do you still follow this practice of pasteurization? I notice that you did so with some of your first ciders. Thanks

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yes I like sweet and carbonated so I bottle pasteurize.

Dang bulk pasteurization!!!!
Im going to give it a try!

I did the bottle pasteurization once and out of 48 bottles I only had one blow....
all over the kitchen.

In another batch I killed off the yeast using said chemicals and backsweetened just a tad.
I find Im not fond of non carbonated cider...
Nor am I fond of bottle pasteurization.....
Seems like it would be far easier to pasteurize the entire batch, sweeten then bottle!!!!!

CyderSilverblade said:

I find Im not fond of non carbonated cider...
Nor am I fond of bottle pasteurization.....
Seems like it would be far easier to pasteurize the entire batch, sweeten then bottle!!!!!

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yes but if you bulk pasteurize sweeten then bottle the yeast will be dead and you will not get any carbonation.

Daze...
Oh yea.....
crap!!!!!
That wont work!
Back to bottle pasteurizing!