Infusing a fruit

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

AnaheimAngels

New Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
Location
Anaheim
So, I'm brewing an american hef right now (to keep my fiancee satisfied on the beer front) and I wanted to add/infuse a fruit. Primary fermentation is just finishing up and I'm about to move it to a secondary, so I figured this would be the best time to do this. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I've heard you should freeze the fruit to kill the bacteria. Should I make a mash out of it as well? Anything else I need to consider?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Chopping it into smaller pieces depends on what fruit you use. Most folks will chop them and throw them into a plastic bag. Or slightly mash them inside of the plastic sandwich bag, and freeze them solid - usually takes a few days. Thaw them very slightly so they can slide out of the bag in a chunk. Place them in your empty secondary, and rack your beer on top. Let sit for 5 or more days. I don't move it into a secondary with the fruit until about the 5th week. I bottle immediately after the fruit is done imparting flavor.

Expect your fruit to turn colorless and nearly gray or so over the course of the time they are in your beer.
 
I added 5 Blood oranges that I washed and split in half and added to my secondary for 2 weeks. Came out amazingly delicious.
 
So, I'm brewing an american hef right now (to keep my fiancee satisfied on the beer front) and I wanted to add/infuse a fruit. Primary fermentation is just finishing up and I'm about to move it to a secondary, so I figured this would be the best time to do this. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I've heard you should freeze the fruit to kill the bacteria. Should I make a mash out of it as well? Anything else I need to consider?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

What fruit are you considering? I added 4lb strawberries and 2lb blueberries to a Belgian Wit last year (called it red, wit and blue) came out nice. I just made a star san bath and dunked the fruits before adding to secondary. :mug:
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I actually wanted to do something exotic, maybe like a star fruit. It's fruity, sweet, and not too citrusy. Does the freezing act as a form of sanitizing? How much fruit should I put into the 5 gal. carboy? What about pectins? Thanks again for all the replies.
 
I would be careful about freezing. Not all bacteria is killed by freezing temps, much like yeast they simply go dormant until heated back up. I would pasteurize or soak in alcohol to prevent infection.
 
I would be careful about freezing. Not all bacteria is killed by freezing temps, much like yeast they simply go dormant until heated back up. I would pasteurize or soak in alcohol to prevent infection.

I have never heard of any circumstance where freezing the fruit has ever caused infection. There are hundreds of threads talking about freezing with no problem, so why take tippy toes around something that has caused no one any problems previously? Soaking the fruit in alcohol is exactly what you are doing when adding it to the beer. No need to soak in alcohol that would influence the taste of your beer IMO. Give it a good sink rinsing before freezing of course.
 
Not sure where all these posts are but this is the only one I can find regarding freezing as a sanitary method. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/sanitation-while-making-fruit-additions-124936/

Here's the important quote:
"Freezing" will not kill anything on it...I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong. Freezing may slow the growth of bacteria and other nasties, but once thawed there is always a chance of bacterial growth, very unlikely that an infection will occur, but to say freezing will "kill anything on it" is incorrect.

Liquor is a bit more concentrated than you're average beer. Ever heard of a bottle infection or infection after transferring to secondary? It happens. A fermented beer is more but not 100% safe from bacteria. Do you simply dip your wine thief/turkey baster/ladle in your carboy without sanitizing it for a reading? Do you not sanitize anything when racking? Ever heard of the frozen fly trick where you freeze it the fly then your hand temp "brings it back to life" I sure as hell wouldn't put that in my carboy.

If you can link one of these "hundreds" of threads about it and back up your claim with verifiable information for the OP so he doesn't ruin his beer it'd be more beneficial. Google "does freezing kill bacteria" and tell me how many of those says it's a reliable means of sanitation and killing bacteria. Personally I'd rather not waste $35-$60 in ingredients not being cautious with sanitation.
 
^ wow you managed to draw a ton of conclusions about my process from my 4 sentence reply to the OP. Probably unneeded for you to do that and slightly irrational to make those assumptions. Feel free to message if you'd like to know exactly how my process differs from yours. It would be cool if you provided links to back up what you told the OP, unless it was your opinion, don't worry I won't ask you to since this is one of those topics that are based on preferences:

"I would be careful about freezing. Not all bacteria is killed by freezing temps, much like yeast they simply go dormant until heated back up. I would pasteurize or soak in alcohol to prevent infection."

If it's just your opinion and there is no proof of beer actually becoming infected then you don't have to supply proof. And I'm just using common sense for my reasoning of what I told the OP as well. But for you to say "careful" about freezing your fruit, then that means you have heard of someone freezing their fruit and their beer getting infected. I sure haven't heard anything, it's never happened to me, and I've used PLENTY of fruits in my beer over the years.

The OP can just do what he think will work best. For me, soaking fruit in alcohol like vodka or rum, will release it's flavorings into the alcohol, slightly altering the taste of your beer. If both methods work fine, why would you use the one that would alter taste? Don't make the OP paranoid to the point that they are willing to alter flavor in order to sanitize something. That's just silly.

If you've seen frozen fruit and then thawed it, then you see the puddle of juice it creates in the plastic bag. But if you absolutely need more proof to back up my claim that freezing fruit doesn't cause substantial problems. I'll find what I can. I won't ask you to find proof don't worry.

There's plenty of other options to sanitize or partly sanitize fruit if you aren't paranoid or a newbie. Boiling for 10 minutes in 160 degree water is another option I'd do before hard alcohol.

Post 2, 4, and 5 here.

Also here.

I would never tell him to "be careful" with a method that has never failed me or someone else. Again, you're just causing paranoia. For the record, when I use my wine thief to pull samples, no I don't soak in sanitizer, I'll rinse it after it's ran through the dishwasher though.

Hey OP, I'm really sorry if this post is too long to read, just read this for brevity: No need to soak fruit in alcohol unless you're paranoid and don't mind the potential flavor profile change due to the hard liquor being added. Freezing your fruit breaks down the cell structure, so when it thaws all that awesome juice releases. Try it. Freeze a few chopped strawberries then thaw them. Don't be afraid of infection at this point. Wash your fruit thoroughly just like you would if you were consuming them, then freeze them. Happy brewing my friend. Do what you're comfortable with.
 
Where to begin.....

^ wow you managed to draw a ton of conclusions about my process from my 4 sentence reply to the OP.

I was asking those questions to drive my point about proper sanitation. I wouldn't, personally or for others, want to waste hard earned money and time with a PREVENTABLE infection resulting in a poor brewing experience, especially a newcomer who may never come back if their early experience sucks. If it wasn't a problem, nobody would be sanitizing their fruit period. You also backed my claim up in some of your links where people said they pasteurize or use campden tablets with their fruit to sanitize, your credibility is pretty much moot after that. What would you rather do, have a botched batch of beer or take the extra step to ensure it doesn't happen? Some people go 8000miles without an oil change, but am I'm going to do it because some people don't have their engine seize while doing this? Hell no.

It would be cool if you provided links to back up what you told the OP

I did, please read my entire post and you'll find I did back up my information. Also, some of the links you provided back up my claims.

If it's just your opinion and there is no proof of beer actually becoming infected then you don't have to supply proof...And I'm just using common sense for my reasoning of what I told the OP as well. ....I sure haven't heard anything, it's never happened to me

What proof do you need? Bacteria can cause infection, period. Sanitation is paramount in any step of the brewing process. If a fully fermented beer was so safe from infection, why do people sanitize their bottles and racking equipment? Freezing fresh fruit won't remove all of the bacteria, try google for example like I suggested in my post, or read some of your own links you provided or even mine. The only way to be absolutely sure you won't have an infection is to sanitize your additions, that's about as common sense as you can get.

I sure haven't heard anything, it's never happened to me

Read my post please. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/tips-adding-fruit-beer-117058/ another link for your reading.

soaking fruit in alcohol like vodka or rum, will release it's flavorings into the alcohol, slightly altering the taste of your beer.

It will simply increases your ABV slightly. Fruit soaked in unflavored vodka won't absorb enough to impart any noticeable flavor on a 5 gallon batch.

frozen fruit and then thawed it, then you see the puddle of juice it creates in the plastic bag. But if you absolutely need more proof to back up my claim that freezing fruit doesn't cause substantial problems.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Juice from thawed fruit doesn't indicate sanitation in any way, shape or form.

Boiling for 10 minutes in 160 degree water is another option I'd do before hard alcohol.

This is called pasteurization, which I recommended. Here again, you support my argument.

I would never tell him to "be careful" with a method that has never failed me or someone else. Again, you're just causing paranoia. For the record, when I use my wine thief to pull samples, no I don't soak in sanitizer, I'll rinse it after it's ran through the dishwasher though.

So you sanitize your wine thief by running it through the dishwasher. Fair enough.

Here is a quote from John Palmer from his book How to Brew:

"Cleanliness is the foremost concern of the brewer. Providing good growing conditions for the yeast in the beer also provides good growing conditions for other micro-organisms, especially wild yeast and bacteria. Cleanliness must be maintained throughout every stage of the brewing process."

The bold part is a pretty important point. So it's not "paranoia" to sanitize, it's simply good brewing practice.

My final suggestion for the OP and for you especially gregger, is to do some research and maybe take advantage of some of the great reading material that's out there. You will learn alot I'm sure. I hope the OP takes at least something out of this and makes a great beer, hopefully with no problems. :mug:
 
Um yeah this has gotten pretty stupid. Passive-aggression is strong with drathbone. Freezing doesn't sanitize fruit, I never said that it does. Gotta love skewing perception in order to get it to fit your argument. You wasted your breath man. You should probably move on and go back to helping out the OP.

OP don't waste your time by reading the above reply by drathbone. It has nothing to do with you except the final suggestion... Agreed, newbies to the game should read and research to provide a good foundation for the hobby. I did when I started, and it really helped with my first batches.

OP do what you want. I freeze fruit because it works to impart flavor, it doesn't cause a problem for me and REALLY releases a lot of fruit juice. In fact I REALLY recommend it as others did for me. No need to "be careful" on freezing either. This is a sanitizing step worth skipping, unless you pull your fruit fresh from the garden with dirt on it or something.

After awhile in the hobby, I was actually able to deduce that certain steps are unnecessary. Soaking fruit in liquor is one of them for me. I found a MUCH better method of getting that flavor by freezing. In fact, these days, soaking your fruit in liquor just sounds anal to me. Sanitizing is good practice, but you'll learn the few steps where it's unnecessary. I get better flavor when freezing. That's why I do it. It's why I recommend it over soaking in liquor. Because of the flavor you get.
 
I really did want to end this and didn't want to get the last word in, but I came across one of your threads (bout a month old) having some issues using fresh fruit for the first time and you said your going to stick to puree and extract. Several people mentioned you did not sanitize/pasteurize the fruit (simply froze) and you had an undrinkable batch of beer. Hate to say it, but your credibility really has gone out the window as you don't have much experience with fresh fruit like you claim. At least that settles any confusion this may have caused for the OP.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/rotting-strawberries-can-happen-248056/index3.html
 
Can I delete the original post so you guys can take your pissing match elsewhere? I was stoked to find this website that has a community of guys helping each other with brew questions. Guess it's just a place for people to feed their egos. I'll stick with buying a book on homebrewing next time.
 
I don't think there's anyway to delete an entire thread. I hope you're at least able to make an educated decision on what to do and not look back and wish you had the information you wouldn't have otherwise. I wouldn't discount this website, these arguments tend to happen from time to time (Just do a quick search on secondaries, everyone has their side) Good luck.
 
Can I delete the original post so you guys can take your pissing match elsewhere? I was stoked to find this website that has a community of guys helping each other with brew questions. Guess it's just a place for people to feed their egos. I'll stick with buying a book on homebrewing next time.

Exactly why I rarely post on here.
 
Definitely don't want to start out with rotten strawberries as I did. Throw them in ripe and frozen.

I heard it helps even better if crushed or mashed too. Sorry you had to witness that OP. Online irrationality is a waste of time. I definitely want to apologize for my involvement. Not sure at want point focus was lost.

For any one coming across this thread, you'll find the argument all over the internet, but in a nutshell these are the ways people use fruit, obviously all met with great success. For future peeps coming across this thread:

1) Washing fruit, freezing it, adding directly to the secondary for a few days then bottle.
2) Washing fruit, puree it, add it to secondary, strain it with a nylon bag when bottling to take care of the pulp or seeds.
3) To go the extra sanitizing step if necessary, soak in liquor, add it all into secondary when bottling.
4) Use a fruit extract, sometimes it causes a fake fruit or medicinal flavor, but i've had pretty good experiences though.
5) boil for a few minutes if you wan't another type of sanitizing step at water and all to secondary.

You can even use a combination of the above. For those of us who freeze, we aren't preaching that it sanitizing. It doesn't but some of us say you don't have to worry about it. Give 'em a good rinse.
 
Well, you could take a look at some of the fruit beer recipes in the recipe data base - most of them have some discussion about the "hows" but maybe not so much of the why.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top