Heady Topper

Williams 728
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A description of Riwaka hops from New Zealand. If the Alchemist has a NZ hop connection in some of their brews, this could be a player in Heady.

Straight from their site

Selection:

The Riwaka is a real standout during selection especially when “rubbing up” the freshly kilned cones for aroma scores. Its powerful grapefruit “citrus” characters are literally breathtaking. This variety is typically seen to have higher then average oil, almost double that of its Saazer parent.

Brewer’s notes:

If you want to say “hops” in your beer than this variety says it all. The pure weight of the oil character experienced during selection carries right through to the glass. A punchy addition to the new-world styles of Pale Ale and regional Pilseners. A cult hero that is established in the New Zealand craft beer culture.
 
whitehause said:
A description of Riwaka hops from New Zealand. If the Alchemist has a NZ hop connection in some of their brews, this could be a player in Heady.

Straight from their site

Selection:

The Riwaka is a real standout during selection especially when “rubbing up” the freshly kilned cones for aroma scores. Its powerful grapefruit “citrus” characters are literally breathtaking. This variety is typically seen to have higher then average oil, almost double that of its Saazer parent.

Brewer’s notes:

If you want to say “hops” in your beer than this variety says it all. The pure weight of the oil character experienced during selection carries right through to the glass. A punchy addition to the new-world styles of Pale Ale and regional Pilseners. A cult hero that is established in the New Zealand craft beer culture.
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I have never smelled one, but read these hops smell like kumquats. Is that smell aparent in heady topper?
 
I was surprised to wake up this morning with an email from none other than John The Alchemist (as he signed the email).

Here's what I learned:

CO2 hop extract for bittering with all other hop additions coming at 5 minutes or less and no Citra, at least not yet. 75-80 IBU. Most of the aroma comes from his private yeast strain named Conan.
 
Really cool. I was thinking somewhere around that number for bitterness as well. It doesn't have the lip curling bitterness of a lot of the other 100+ IBU imperials out there. So by saying "as of yet" it leads me to believe that he doesn't have a strict hop bill that he uses, that he perhaps changes it periodically.
 
bottlebomber said:
Really cool. I was thinking somewhere around that number for bitterness as well. It doesn't have the lip curling bitterness of a lot of the other 100+ IBU imperials out there. So by saying "as of yet" it leads me to believe that he doesn't have a strict hop bill that he uses, that he perhaps changes it periodically.
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This hop extract is proving financially prohibitive. Northern Brewer is the only one I can find that sells it somewhat low-priced, so long as you're ordering other stuff to save on shipping. But, they're out of stock.

Everything he said about the process seems to be reflected in the final product, I figured he did extract and then everything 5 minutes or less. I think it's down to Moteuka or Riwaka at this point.
 
Odd that he said 75-80IBU lab tested and their website has it at 120. Wonder what is up with that different. Was he telling me 75-80IBU is the hop extract? The way I've got my recipe, I'm getting 65 IBUS from my bittering addition, whether hops or extract, and then another 12-15 from my 5 minute addition of Simcoe, Centennial, Amarillo, and Chinook.
 
Could be....I'm not sure I'd get too stuck on the hop extract end of it though. I would think a good clean hop like magnum would work fine for bittering. It's the late addition hops I wish he would have opened up on.(and how they are added). I completely understand why he didn't, but sure would have been nice. At least we can take citra out of the equation for sure now.

Great work on getting a response and posting it!:mug:
 
whitehause said:
Could be....I'm not sure I'd get too stuck on the hop extract end of it though. I would think a good clean hop like magnum would work fine for bittering. It's the late addition hops I wish he would have opened up on.(and how they are added). I completely understand why he didn't, but sure would have been nice. At least we can take citra out of the equation for sure now.

Great work on getting a response and posting it!:mug:
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Well, I tried not to ask a ton of questions in hopes of him actually answering the few I had. I just did the web-based question form on their website and got the response about a week later. I guess someone else could try asking him the same way about the late hops, though he might be onto us now. :mug:

One thing I just read over on beeradvocate is that someone spoke to John's wife at a party and she said they use hop extract and no crystal. If the grist is only pearl and sugar, it's going to be like 4.6SRM, is that even close?
 
I wonder how the bitterness from hop extract hits the palate compared to boiled hops. FWH makes a huge difference, for example. I made massive IPA recently that had a calculated 200 IBU, but it was all FWH and late additions. It was definitely bitter but the bitterness rolled up and off the palate in a way that didn't make it seem all too bitter. I wonder how the extract works as far as this.
 
theveganbrewer said:
Well, I tried not to ask a ton of questions in hopes of him actually answering the few I had. I just did the web-based question form on their website and got the response about a week later. I guess someone else could try asking him the same way about the late hops, though he might be onto us now. :mug:

One thing I just read over on beeradvocate is that someone spoke to John's wife at a party and she said they use hop extract and no crystal. If the grist is only pearl and sugar, it's going to be like 4.6SRM, is that even close?
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Good call on not getting too crazy with questions, quick answers aren't time consuming, busy people tend not to bother with long answers.

I saw a post about "no crystal" also. He apparently, like Vinny from RR, doesn't like using crystal at all. I might give it couple days and send a "what hops give your Heady Topper such a wonderful flavor....Best beer I ever had" type question. Flattery tends to go a long way too:D
 
whitehause said:
Good call on not getting too crazy with questions, quick answers aren't time consuming, busy people tend not to bother with long answers.

I saw a post about "no crystal" also. He apparently, like Vinny from RR, doesn't like using crystal at all. I might give it couple days and send a "what hops give your Heady Topper such a wonderful flavor....Best beer I ever had" type question. Flattery tends to go a long way too:D
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Yeah, my question was full of praise and he noted that a few times in his full response. I am debating replying to the email, but not sure. It looks like the webform gets sent to some employee who then decides to forward it to his personal email or not. I don't think we're going to get the exact recipe, but we're a lot closer today than we were last week. I wonder about the use of Nugget, Amarillo, Moteuka, and Riwaka. Other than that, I feel confident we can figure out the hop schedule.
 
He was trying to throw you off the trail ;)

image-3440458954.jpg
 
bottlebomber said:
I wonder how the bitterness from hop extract hits the palate compared to boiled hops. FWH makes a huge difference, for example. I made massive IPA recently that had a calculated 200 IBU, but it was all FWH and late additions. It was definitely bitter but the bitterness rolled up and off the palate in a way that didn't make it seem all too bitter. I wonder how the extract works as far as this.
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That's a good point. I wonder if a FWH done with the bittering hop would help to mellow the bittering a little. I know I've done this with my Zombie dust clone from Skeezer and it stops the Citra from throwing off flavors in the 60 min boil.
 
Want to get my hop schedule out of Beersmith so I can read it and work on it: I just did this to get the IBUs, haven't checked it out for optimal hopping yet.

1.5oz Magnum @60
0.5oz Chinook @5
0.5oz Simcoe @5
0.25oz Amarillo @5
0.5oz Columbus @2
0.5oz Centennial @2

Whirlpool-

1oz each of Centennial, Simcoe, Columbus, Cascade

Dryhop-

0.25 oz of Nugget
1 oz of Simcoe
1 oz of Columbus
1 oz of Centennial
0.5 oz of Moteuka
0.25 oz of Amarillo

Don't kill me, just getting it out there so we can work on it.
 
I know it's been said he uses 7 (I think) hops. Was just thinking how funny it would be if the only hop was FF 7C's.....:drunk:
 
theveganbrewer said:
Well, I tried not to ask a ton of questions in hopes of him actually answering the few I had. I just did the web-based question form on their website and got the response about a week later. I guess someone else could try asking him the same way about the late hops, though he might be onto us now. :mug:

One thing I just read over on beeradvocate is that someone spoke to John's wife at a party and she said they use hop extract and no crystal. If the grist is only pearl and sugar, it's going to be like 4.6SRM, is that even close?
Click to expand...

Heady has a lot of body for such a dry, low FG IPA. I would guess he doesn't need to add sugar, given that Conan gets ~82% attenuation. He probably mashes low, around 148/9. I'm still thinking there's a bit of wheat in the grain bill to add to that creaminess without using Crystal.

If HT does use a New Zealand hop like Riwaka, he'd be sort of a pioneer with that too, wouldn't he? Maybe I just didn't have my ear to the ground but it doesn't seem like those hops were being used by NA brewers until very recently.
 
othellomcbane said:
Heady has a lot of body for such a dry, low FG IPA. I would guess he doesn't need to add sugar, given that Conan gets ~82% attenuation. He probably mashes low, around 148/9. I'm still thinking there's a bit of wheat in the grain bill to add to that creaminess without using Crystal.

If HT does use a New Zealand hop like Riwaka, he'd be sort of a pioneer with that too, wouldn't he? Maybe I just didn't have my ear to the ground but it doesn't seem like those hops were being used by NA brewers until very recently.
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The old Alchemist pub had hops growing outside that they used in the beers if I recall correctly. I would suspect that there's a pile of Centennial hops in this beer, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were all hops that aren't under those silly patent laws. You know, stuff you can grow outside a brewpub.
 
Let me go buy some and report back, wednesday is delivery day and they always sell out here in burlington by thursday! The whole city is addicted
 
Someone from VT (or close by) needs to go to the cannery, take their "self guided tour of the brewery," guide themselves into the storage room, and look at what kinds of malts and hops they have. That way we can put this to rest since they are from what I believe just brewing HT.
 
DangerRoss said:
Someone from VT (or close by) needs to go to the cannery, take their "self guided tour of the brewery," guide themselves into the storage room, and look at what kinds of malts and hops they have. That way we can put this to rest since they are from what I believe just brewing HT.
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If you saw the "tour area" you would know how funny your post is.
 
DangerRoss said:
Someone from VT (or close by) needs to go to the cannery, take their "self guided tour of the brewery," guide themselves into the storage room, and look at what kinds of malts and hops they have. That way we can put this to rest since they are from what I believe just brewing HT.
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I think he also makes a gluten free beer.
 
Celia is contract brewed at Ipswich who make great beers including their contract beers.
 
othellomcbane said:
I'm fairly sure Celia Saison is contract-brewed elsewhere. Not that it would have malt in the grain bill to confuse our spies, anyway!
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Ha. Good point about the gluten free.

This also explains why my local liquor store carries the saison but no HT.
 
According to signage at the bar which I found on some blog, 6 hops, big whirlpool, fermented at 68 degrees. Aged 2-3 weeks before bottling.
 
bluemoose said:
The bar formerly known as the alchemist is now the Prohibition Pig.
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This was like a wall sign for Heady Topper and little signs from inside the canning room. I think it's solid. Anyone ever check their dumpster for grain bags? :D
 
I'm diving into whirlpool bitterness additions. Anyone have a decent formula for figuring them out? I figure 1/2 utilization for every 20 degrees down from boiling.
 
I'm heading up to Waterbury for a beer weekend. I'll be stopping by The Alchemist on Monday to bring home a few cases of HT. I'll do what I can to get any info to add here. I'm not ashamed to dumpster dive. :)
 
I've heard a lot of discussion about this recipe, and the most convincing piece of input came from a frequent visitor of the brewpub, and a Vermont native / BeerAdvocate. He said that after having a lengthy one-on-one discussion with the head brewer of Heady Topper he only managed to pick up a few definites --

1) The head brewer dislikes Citra; thinks it's a sledgehammer of a hop
2) The recipe is heavy handed on Simcoe
3) Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt base
4) 82%-ish attenuation with a yeast similar to WLP001 called Conan
5) Approx. 80-90 IBUs Rager, or a bit more if using Tinseth
6) Less than 150 mash temp. (probably a step mash)
7) About 1.070 OG / 1.010 FG
8) 6 hops are used

I'm guessing Columbus, Simcoe, Nugget, Amarillo, Chinook, and Summit are the 6 hops with a big focus on hopbursting and triple-stage dryhopping. Small bittering/Huge 5 min/Huge post-boil aroma steep/Huge DH schedule. No European or Australian hops in this beer. I'm guessing 82% Pearl, 6% each -- Carapils, White Wheat, Golden Naked Oats, Corn Sugar, Caramalt.

EDIT: Use Centennial and Warrior instead of Summit and Chinook
 
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