BerlinerWeisse

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pipapat

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So after trying dogfish head neo-BerlinerWeisse with peaches i have to say its a great summer brew.

I was wondering if anyone has had any success on making one?
If so any ideas for making a peach version?

Links to some thread with recipes might be help full.

Other than double ipa's all i seem to brew these days are sour beers.

:)

:mug:
 
I've tried several times, my best and most recent attempt I pitched wyeast lacto culture into 4.5 gallons and left it for 5 days before pitching 05. When I pitched the 05 it had a frothy 3/4inch krausen and smelled rotting from the lacto, but only tasted faintly sour.

I took one gallon seperate of the same wort and added a couple handfuls of uncrushed grain and let that go for 7 or 8 days. It looked disgusting but after running it through cheese cloth it tasted fantastic. I blended the full gallon back into the main batch after it was done fermenting.

It was 50/50 pilsner/wheat, about .5 oz hallertau, after the mash brought it to a boil and then chilled it.
 
Jamil's method isn't adequate in my experience for producing a properly sour berliner.

My current method is 50/50 pils/wheat, double decoction, mash hopped, no boil, OG around 1.030-1.034. Make a big starter for the lacto (I have been going from a 500ml first step to 2000ml, incubated at 98F), pitch the lacto in the wort at 100F and let it sit until it reaches 80F (about 12 hours), then pitch about 1/4 of a packet of US05. After that is done fermenting, keep it warm, rack it to a keg or secondary or even bottle, and wait about 4-6months for the sourness to fully develop. It should be slightly tart right after fermentation, and it SHOULD continue to develop as time goes on.
 
So after trying dogfish head neo-BerlinerWeisse with peaches i have to say its a great summer brew.

I was wondering if anyone has had any success on making one?
If so any ideas for making a peach version?

Links to some thread with recipes might be help full.

Other than double ipa's all i seem to brew these days are sour beers.

:)

:mug:

Someone else looking for a DFH Festina Peche recipe. :mug:
This was the beer that sparked my interest in the Berliner Weisse style as well. Someone on the northern brewer forum came up with supposedly a close brew, but commented it's lacking multi-dimensional sour character.

See Linky

I've got some intentions of trying to duplicate this soon myself, I'll let you know my findings.
 
I've brewed a few Berliner Weisse's now with limited success using lacto. My best batch, and favorite among friends and relatives, was made without lacto and I added lactic acid when I bottled. It's so nice and tart and mixed with raspberry syrup it's like heaven on a hot summer day. I know it's cheating, but it's a great beer.
 
In case anyone was interested in the full description of DFH Festina Peche:



I'm disappointed to hear they dialed back the sourness. I really enjoyed the crispness it had when I tasted it last year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have a Berliner Weiss in the secondary right now on various fruits. Cherry, raspberry, apricot and as soon as I find them watermelon jolly ranchers (weird I know! :) ) I did a 36 hour sour mash using 6# Pilsner 2 row and 4# White Wheat. 1 oz Tettnang added at 15 min left in the boil. In primary for 2 weeks and then split into 5 1 gallon secondaries on different fruits. So far it looks as though it is turning out great.
 
anyone know where i can get some wombats for this batch?
lol

Im going to brew 2.
1 with the short cut methods all grain and 1 with a culture.
I'll report back on the second in 3-6 months.
The first im 5-6 weeks out.
 
Jamil's method isn't adequate in my experience for producing a properly sour berliner.

It should be slightly tart right after fermentation, and it SHOULD continue to develop as time goes on.

I believe the lacto we can get from wyeast/white labs can only ferment glucose. Since the beers attenuate so low I wouldn't think there would be much of that left after fermentation was done. Do you think the flavor just becomes more apparent as the beer ages?
 
I believe the lacto we can get from wyeast/white labs can only ferment glucose. Since the beers attenuate so low I wouldn't think there would be much of that left after fermentation was done. Do you think the flavor just becomes more apparent as the beer ages?



I have never heard that they can only ferment glucose, do you have a source for that?

But you are right that aging can have an impact on the perception of sourness, which I believe largely has to do with the beer clearing up and tasting cleaner, letting the sourness come through more.

My sour mashed berliner weisse at work has gotten a bit more tart as time has gone on and as it cleared up.

But my homebrew berliners have gotten more sour over time than would be possible without the bugs doing work.
 
I have never heard that they can only ferment glucose, do you have a source for that?

But you are right that aging can have an impact on the perception of sourness, which I believe largely has to do with the beer clearing up and tasting cleaner, letting the sourness come through more.

My sour mashed berliner weisse at work has gotten a bit more tart as time has gone on and as it cleared up.

But my homebrew berliners have gotten more sour over time than would be possible without the bugs doing work.

Yah, I can certainly see a cleaner beer allowing the lactic acid to come through more.

My only source as for the lacto is Wild Brews:

"Lactobacillus Delbrueckii, one of the most common species available to U.S. brewers, ... ... Homofermentative, L. Delbrueckii produces one product (lactic acid) from one substrate (glucose). L. Delbrueckii produces only lactic acid (as wells as carbon dioxide) as a by-product of fermentation." pg. 111.

I've tried finding out more, but all of the information on L. Delbrueckii are on the 2 subspecies used in dairy fermentation, L. Delbrueckii ssp. Lactis and L. Delbrueckii ssp. Bulgaricus. L. Delbrueckii ssp. Delbrueckii is the sub-species I believe we use, but haven't been able to find any information on it.

On the other hand, Lactobacillus Brevis, which is found in Lambics and Flanders, is heterofermentative, and also quite resistant to hop acids. I imagine L. Brevis would be present in a sour mash or on grain husks.
 
I would suggest adding lactose to add sourness, the lactobacillus gets rid of all of the lactose, it will not contribute to the body. Lactose cannot be fermented by yeast, so this should give you pretty good control over sourness in your beer. On another note, if you are looking for more interesting lactobacillus strains, just pitch a little quality yogurt, they will have a mixture of excellent souring bacteria, just watch for too much acetylaldehyde production.
 
I've brewed one a few times and didn't make a starter with the lacto/pedio (forgot which one I used at the moment). It turned out sour after about 6 months of aging, but I wanted more sour punch. I would advise making a starter for the bugs that will do the souring. Also, the sourness dissipated too quickly in my batches. But, a very good brew.
 
im 5 months out now if i remember correctly. A lacto starter would have aided the bugged beer.

The short cut method never got any more sour.
Both are good but i should have pitched a puro laco culture in the beer and waited a day before pitching the yeast.
 
The best info I have come across for BW is in this thread: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43587&hilit=berliner

The good information is not from the OP. A user named Mashweasel. I will sum up his experience (he is a pro from how it reads), but reading the whole thread is probably a good idea.

Mashweasel: Sour mash is a very bad idea. Ive done alright with mine and its 50% pils 50% wheat, single decoction with a mash hop. NO, boil. Thats right, NO boil. Ferment 4 days in primary, 3 day 2ndary, into the bottle with fresh yeast: bacteria.

Mashweasel:The souring of the beer comes from the lactobacillus found on the grain when it ferments, NOT before fermentation. As I said before. A simple grist of 50% wheat and 50% pils is the way to go. Something like 10 IBUs of any german hop will be fine of which they will be mash hopped. A single decoction is a must b/c this beer is not boiled. A sour mash will not accomplish the level of sourness, carbonation and dryness for which this style is known. Pitch both ale yeast and lactobacillus.

Fermentation: Open fermentation for 4 days, starting at 68F going up to 75F. 2ndary, ~75F for 7 days.

Bottle condition: Repitch fresh yeast and bacteria to about 4-4.5vol of CO2. Its going to have to stay in the bottles for quite a while.

This is really the only way to do a Berliner Weiss and have it come out in the traditional manner. Ive had a bunch of sour mashed beers and they just dont taste right. They either have a ton of other flavors from the sour mash or they have to big of body, not dry enough and not sour enough. People then take to adding a bunch of lactic acid. Not good.


Mashweasel
: Sure. Even though I list the 'decoction' as very important, its not THE most important thing. Mash hop. Do a multistep rest. 135F x 2 hours, 149 x 1 hour, bring it up to 170F x 10min and then dont boil. Add lacto and yeast at a 3:1 ratio to start. This will give you a good idea of what the beer will be like. You will be missing a lot of the 'wheaty' flavor but if you are going to try this style, you have to get the fermentation and lacto:yeast right. MUST bottle condition. If you do it this way, let it sit in the bottle and forget about it. Then do another one with your 'fast' method. Then compare the two.

Mashweasel: Did some counts on the yeast and bacteria for ya'll as follows:

Wyeast 1007 10^9/ ml

Lacto 10^6 to 10^7/ ml

Its about 100-1000 fold difference between the two. NO WHERE near the 3:1 - 5:1 yeast.

Most people dont understand this. You will definitely need a starter for the Lacto. NO hops in the starter. I do mine at 37C shaking overnight and that works fine. If you do it at room temp, it will take longer by far.

Mashweasel: Mine usually goes into bottles after the primary so at about day 4 I like to do it. However it may have to wait until the weekend...day 7ish. You can do a secondary if you like if you find that you are getting to much dunk in your bottles. I've done it many different ways. I find the sooner I get it into the bottles the better it is. You should have a good amount of sourness going into the bottle. I've found that the sourness develops quite quickly in the bottle if you condition them warm (~80-85F) for a few weeks. It will get more sour in the bottle than out of it at a much faster rate also.
 

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