Still having issues with volume

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senorfartman

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I posted the other day about only coming up with about 1/2 the wort I had intended for.

I took the advice, used a lot more water and remembered to take into account the dead space in my HLT (HD 10 gal cooler) then added the extra water just to be on the safe side..

And I still end up with 1/2 of what I should have! WTF am I doing wrong?

I made up a recipe for a stout. It goes:

8 lbs Eng 2 row
1 lb roasted barley
1 lb carapils
1/2 lb chocolate malt
1/4 lb patent
1 oz Kent Goldings (1/2 @ 60, 1/2 @ 10)
1/2 oz Fuggles (30)

I mashed with 3.5 gallons of water for a strike temp of 152.

I batch sparged with over 6 gallons of 168 degree water just to be safe.

I still came up with only about 3 gallons of wort in the fermenter.

What am I doing wrong?
 
Wow, something is not right! You used 8.5 gal of water and ended up with 3 gal in the fermenter? I use about8.5-10 gal per batch and end up with 5.5 gal in the fermenter, and I have a 20% evaporation rate.
I really can't see how all that water would yield such a low volume, even if you had a very vigerous boil. How do you measurew your water's volume?
 
The grain bill that you list will retain about 1-1 and 1/4 gallons of water. What is your gravity of the last sparge? The only thing I can think of based upon what you list in your question is that you end the sparge way too early. By the sound of it, that 10 gallon cooler ought to be pretty full.
 
Even with 1-1.5 gallons of water lost to grain absorption, you should get, at least, 6gal of wort into the kettle (if you did batch sparge with 6gal).
 
definitely triple check the water volumes you're trying to use...i.e. make sure that 1 gallon pitcher isn't really 2.75 quarts

also, how hard is your boil? you might be losing a lot to evaporation. I have that issue, my burner is a bit too powerful for my brew kettle...i get 20% evaporate on average.
 
I would make sure you're sparging until you get between 6 and 7 gallons of runnings, and making sure the measurements are correct (since the markings on buckets and other containers aren't always right). I drain into my kettle, and I know where I need to stop before I'll risk boil overs.

As the previous posters said, maybe you're boiling too aggressively and could maybe back it down to a lighter roiling boil.
 
You said "and remembered to take into account the dead space in my HLT " I'm thinking you meant the MLT right?
You need to figure out how much wort you are getting out of your mash and into the kettle before boil. If you ended up with about 8 gallons (what I would have got out of that mash) into the kettle and boiled off 5 gallons in an hour? HOLY CRAP...
You need to double check to make sure you are getting a gallon when you want a gallon and and know the preboil volume so that you can figure out the boiloff rate.
 
All I can think of:
-One of your benchmark measures is horrifically off. Like a short gallon jug.
-Your burner is a thermonuclear weapon.
 
It HAS to be something with the way you're measuring your water. Whatever you're using to mark off the gallons, it's not marking off actual gallons. I don't want to sound condescending, but you're not confusing quarts and gallons, are you? Mash water is usually measured in quarts, and sparge water is measured in gallons. Also, how long are you boiling?
 
None taken. I use a measuring cup which reads to 2 cups. 8 of those is a gallon so unless I'm horribly mistaken, I don't know what is going on.
 
Start over and re-confirm all your measurements something is way off. Like others have said I use around 10 gallons of water to get 8 gallons preboil.
 
When you clean the grain from your mash tun is the grain fairly dry or do you have lot's of water in it? Maybe your mash is getting stuck during the sparge and you're assuming it is done. Good luck, and keep us posted.
 
16 cup = 1 gallon. wow, that means you're losing 6.5 gallons during the boil? How big is your boil pot? I typically use about 8-9 gals overall and occasionally will end just below the 5 gallon mark after boiling for an hour.
 
I was going to suggest a stuck or extremely slow sparge. When I was using a braid, I noticed that once the waterline got below the top of the grain, my runnings slowed to barely a trickle but would keep trickling another 2 gallons of water. I'm going to try a manifold next................
 
I am using a braid. It does seem like the grain is retaining quite a bit of water when I clean it all out. However, I let it run until nothing comes out of the valve.
 
Plan on losing about .1 gal per pound of grain and also go and put like 2 gallons in your tun and drain it. Then take what ever water is left in there and find out how much is left behind. You should be real close with preboil volumes once you know that.
Also plan to get 100% of the sparge water into the kettle.

What are you using for a kettle and burner? Do you know what your boil off rate is? If not you can get a good idea by putting like 5 gallons in there and boil it for an hour the check to see how much is left. It's a waste of water and gas, but somethings you just have to do in the name of good beer.


You say you use a 2 cup measuring cup to measure the water? Find a better way to do that man. Just for your mash water you had to add 28 of those. I know I would have lost count a good 5 times and would have had to start over.
 
Well I have a 2 cup measuring cup but also a pitcher. I know where on the pitcher 1 gallon is so I use that. Other than that, I'm completely stuck.
 
senorfartman said:
Well I have a 2 cup measuring cup but also a pitcher. I know where on the pitcher 1 gallon is so I use that. Other than that, I'm completely stuck.
What do you ferment in? If using an ale pail it should have gallon markings on that. Test it with the measuring cup and see if it's right. Also a milk jug works.
I'm thinking that you lost count or miss counted a few times.
 
senorfartman said:
I am using a braid. It does seem like the grain is retaining quite a bit of water when I clean it all out. However, I let it run until nothing comes out of the valve.

If your mash is retaining lots of water it sounds like it's your braid system may be plugging. I'm not very knowledgable in this field, so maybe someone could focus on clearing a stuck braid.
 
I mean it seems to flow pretty well. I use a 3/8" tube that I cut notches into and have that placed inside of 2 SS mesh bags. I haven't really seen any signs of a stuck sparge but I can't really think of anything else that it'd be.
 
senorfartman said:
I mean it seems to flow pretty well. I use a 3/8" tube that I cut notches into and have that placed inside of 2 SS mesh bags. I haven't really seen any signs of a stuck sparge but I can't really think of anything else that it'd be.
You should have been able to see that it got stuck being that there was about 3 gallons still in there.
You really need to wright down and pay attention to what goes in and what comes out. Know what your preboil "should" be and what it really is.
The only way you're going to figure this out is to brew again and watch it very closly.
 
Wait I think I've figure out what I've been doing wrong and it's so simple.

When I read batch size in the promash recipes, I took that as for what's going into the fermenter i.e. 10 gallon batch size meant 10 gallons of wort in the fermenter.

Unless this theory is wrong also, technically what I was doing was correct. When I halved the batch size to 5, I was getting 5 gallons of wort but I boiled off 1.5 gallons of it which would explain my low volume.

Am I correct on this? Apparently I'm still at the noob stage :(
 
didn't see you mention your pre boil volume. that would tell you where it's going. if you have 9 galls pre boil and 3 after, then you're boiling it off. If you start with 5 galls and end up with 3, somethings funny with the MLT setup. Is there water left in the MLT after you sparge? Mine has almost no liquid in it after I finish sparging.
 
senorfartman said:
Wait I think I've figure out what I've been doing wrong and it's so simple.

When I read batch size in the promash recipes, I took that as for what's going into the fermenter i.e. 10 gallon batch size meant 10 gallons of wort in the fermenter.

Unless this theory is wrong also, technically what I was doing was correct. When I halved the batch size to 5, I was getting 5 gallons of wort but I boiled off 1.5 gallons of it which would explain my low volume.

Am I correct on this? Apparently I'm still at the noob stage :(
No batch size is what goes into the fermenter.

Ok here is what you have done.
You used 10.75 ponds of grain, mashed with 3.5 gal, sparged with 6 gal for a total of 9.5 gal used. Going with the absorption rate of .1 gal per pound you will lose just over 1 gal to the grain. This (if the tun drains 100%) gives you 8.5 gal into the kettle.
Depending on what size the kettle is this should have been easy to see if you were even close to that or not.
You are missing something somewhere and until you figure it out we can't help you.
It comes down to "know your equipment and system". Even if this was your first brew you ever did you should know what you are putting in and what you are getting out.

So, the way I see it is.
1. you had a stuck sparge.
2 you messed up your count thus you did not use 9.5 gal
3. you have one hell of a burner and are getting like 60% boil-off rate (very unlikely)

Those are the only things I can think of that it could be. Either one or a combo of all three.


I repeat... "know your equipment and system".

Figure out and mark the kettle for gallons.
 
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