What's a good SRM level for "red"?

I'm working on formulating a red ale and I thought I'd ask if anyone had experience getting a good 'red' color. I know what the BJCP ranges are and I know what the programs show the color to look like but that only tells part of the story. Don't want it to be brown and don't want it to be too orange. What level do you think one should shoot for, about 16?

there are many opinions I have read on this and different ways to go about it. Also, ultimately it will be what looks good to you color wise. Not everyone sees color the same. That said...

You can use some roasted barley. A SMALL amount will give you a deep red color without really affecting flavor too much. Say maybe .06 to .125 lb (some people say a little more)

Also Carared will give you some red color. I believe you can use up to 25% of your grist with Carared. It is a special caramel malt produced by Weyermann that gives a red color.

There are some starting points.

Thanks for the info. I had actually factored .125 lb of roasted barley in coincidentally! That provided most of the color according to my beer program.

The carared is a good suggestion, I'll have to play around with the numbers on that one too.

Melanoidin malt gets you towards red (Munich, too, to a lesser extent).

I'm doing an american amber Saturday using carared, crystal 80, and melenoidin. Beer tools puts the SRM at 13. I don't think SRM is a good indicator of how red it is, more like how opaque.

I just did a red using 8 lb 2-row, 8 oz crystal 120, 1 oz black patent, and 8 oz victory. 13 SRM and nice and red!