First AG batch -- two batch sparges?

So I'm ready to delve into my first AG batch, went with a pretty basic amber/red ale recipe. I've tried to digest as much as I could about batch sparging and this is what I came up with. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

The recipe specs are below (5G batch), I'll be mashing the 12 lbs grain in about 4G, and the software I plugged into called for a total of about 5G sparge water. So I thought it made sense to divide that into two 2.5G sparges

1) As I understand it, efficiency is improved when the volume is equal between your initial mash runoff and sparge runoff. Taking absorption into account, if I drained the mash before sparging I can expect to get in the neighborhood of 2.5G. With the equal mash/sparge runoff factor in mind, would I want to add another gallon before draining the mash to get it up to 3-3.5? (not being a chemist, this seems like maybe it's lowering the gravity of the mash). If I do this would I then just do one more sparge until I reach my boil volume?

Or do I just drain the mash first and proceed with the 2x batch sparging as planned? I feel like I'm probably thinking too much


Ingredients:
------------
Amount
10.0 lb German/Weyermann( 2-row) Pale Malt
1.00 lb German/Weyermann CaraMunich III
1.00 lb German/Weyermann CaraMunich I
1.0 oz Challenger/UK [8.3%] pellets (60 min)
1 tablet Whirlfloc (20 min)
1.0 oz Mt. Hood/US [3.6%] (FWH) *add to BK as wort is received from tun
1.0 oz Mt. Hood/US [3.6%] (Dry Hop)

MASH NOTES
Single infusion 4G 166 deg strike water. Mash 60 min 153
Vorlauf, drain slowly. Heat sparge water to 170.
Batch sparge 2G, stir, rest 15 mins. Vorlauf, drain
Batch sparge 2G, stir, rest 15 mins. Vorlauf, drain

Hmm I do batch sparge 4 gal, 10 mins , vorlauf, drain. It's the way I do all mine. Never seen the double one like that. I do 4 gals for and hour then 4 gal for 10mins. I always or at least most of the time end up with 6 gal. That's the way I do my process everytime , and hit my numbers with no problems.

yes it will work i do double sparge most of the time (always when i brew 10gal batch), i think you get little better efficiency and for me its easier to get PB volume at 12.5gal this way (12.5gal basically tops my BK, its better to leave a little wort behind in mash tune from 2nd sparge)

You don't really need to do rests before vorlauf. You're not converting anymore, you're denaturing enzymes so there's no more conversion to be had. You're just trying to rinse the sugars from the grain.

Just make sure your first addition raises the grain bed temp to 168+. Vorlauf the first runnings until clear, empty tun, then batch sparge as you have above, vorlauf each time before emptying, being careful not to disrupt the grain bed when you pour your vorlauf back in (pour through colander slowly, for example)

shadows69 said:

Hmm I do batch sparge 4 gal, 10 mins , vorlauf, drain. It's the way I do all mine. Never seen the double one like that. I do 4 gals for and hour then 4 gal for 10mins. I always or at least most of the time end up with 6 gal. That's the way I do my process everytime , and hit my numbers with no problems.

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^This. In terms of shooting for a certain end water volume, I am usually in the 10-12lb range for grain bill, I put four gallons in, get about 2-2.5 out, then sparge with another 4. You end up with roughly 6-6.5G, boils down to around 5. Nice and simple, no need to overthink!

tre9er said:

You don't really need to do rests before vorlauf. You're not converting anymore, you're denaturing enzymes so there's no more conversion to be had. You're just trying to rinse the sugars from the grain.

Just make sure your first addition raises the grain bed temp to 168+. Vorlauf the first runnings until clear, empty tun, then batch sparge as you have above, vorlauf each time before emptying, being careful not to disrupt the grain bed when you pour your vorlauf back in (pour through colander slowly, for example)

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Appreciate the response. You bring up another question I had about temperature. I presume the 168+ is if I intend to mash out? I was reading that when batch sparging, your sparge water temp isn't a big deal since you're just draining right to the BK and then boiling (hence raising the temp anyway) ... 2) re: using a colander to keep the grain bed in tact. I just need to worry about this when recirculating, correct? In other words when I add the sparge water I can just pour it right in because I'm stirring it anyway? (i.e. as opposed to fly sparging where you want to sprinkle evenly onto your grain bed)

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I always appreciate the insight from experienced brewers on this site

My experience of 415 batches is that doing more than one batch sparge makes so little difference that it isn't worth my time or effort. The only exception is if I'm making a batch so big I can't fit all the sparge water in at once. If you haven't seen it already, take a look at www.dennybrew.com .

correct at 168+ (mash out) pour in and stir the heck out of it and let sit for 10 mins.

Denny said:

My experience of 415 batches is that doing more than one batch sparge makes so little difference that it isn't worth my time or effort. The only exception is if I'm making a batch so big I can't fit all the sparge water in at once. If you haven't seen it already, take a look at www.dennybrew.com .

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Trust this man

Denny said:

My experience of 415 batches is that doing more than one batch sparge makes so little difference that it isn't worth my time or effort. The only exception is if I'm making a batch so big I can't fit all the sparge water in at once. If you haven't seen it already, take a look at www.dennybrew.com .

Click to expand...

Good stuff, thanks

Denny said:

My experience of 415 batches is that doing more than one batch sparge makes so little difference that it isn't worth my time or effort. The only exception is if I'm making a batch so big I can't fit all the sparge water in at once. If you haven't seen it already, take a look at www.dennybrew.com .

Click to expand...

On my system, specially for bigger beers it does make a difference, few months ago i did 1 sparge brewing, had final volumes in BK but just out of curiosity i added 3gal of water to the grains in MT and it was coming out as 1.020og wort, since then for big beers or 10gal batches i double sparge, if i have to sparge with 8gal i do 6gal 1st sparge and 2.5gal 2nd sparge and top of the BK

I can see if you have really thick grist when you sparge that you might want to do two batches, but if you can get to nearly 2qts/lb of grain, I'd think that's rinsing the sugars out effectively.

On that bigger beer how much grain and sparge water were involved in the first batch sparge?