Future of ball lock kegs?

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hvjackson

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Midwest Supplies recently had a pin lock keg promotion, and included this in the marketing email:

"Ball Lock Kegs are soon to be a thing of the past! Most shops are already completely out."

Is there any truth to this? I assumed that both types of kegs would become harder to come by, since soda distributors have switched to plastic bags, but it didn't occur to me that one type would be harder to get than another.

(As a sidenote, II've always been told that ball locks are more common, but based on my casual monitoring of kegs on craiglist it seems to me like they're roughly evenly split. That's a totally unscientific study, of course, but what's the basis for the "ball locks are more common" wisdom?)
 
in my limited experience, ball lock seems far more common, but I'm certainly intrigued by the question.
 
I just purchased 2 of the pin lock kegs they were advertising for $31 each. I do not have a kegging set up yet but I will begin kegging soon and if I need to change out to ball locks in the future no prob, not difficult. Compared to the cost of ball locks it just seemed economical.
 
The LHBS I work at won't be out anytime soon. We have almost 800 ball lock kegs at the store and a pretty solid supply line behind those still. Personally I use both ball and pin lock kegs because two of each is the only way I can get 4 kegs in my kegorator...
 
The word from my LBHS (they sell both) is: Replacement parts for pin locks, like dip tubes arent readily available because the ball locks caught on quicker and have more of a following. My experience would echo that, but the market will respond if pin locks are around longer.
 
I do a lot of buying/selling/trading on Craigslist, and the going rate is about $40 for ball locks, but more like $25 to $30 for pin locks. I find ball locks more often and they seem to be more in demand. At my LHBS, ball locks are $50 and pin locks are $35.

That pretty much sums up the Portland, Oregon/ SW Washington Cornelius market.
 
Original pepsi ball locks are getting rare, as almost all pepsi is bag in box and has been for decades.
Coke resisted bag in box syrup for a long time so pin locks are still in production/distribution for their original purpose.

Inside the home brewing industry new ball locks are in production, just not in the numbers they used to be. There is also production of universal poppets, conversion posts, conversion lids, new dip tubes(both pin and ball) and everything.

Ball locks for our purpose aren't going anywhere, reconditioned cheap original ball locks might be.
 
Seven years ago when this first came up I would have laughed at your question. Four years ago I would have gently explained the nonsense of why it wasn't anything more than hype. Two years ago I started taking it serious. Today... yeah , I think we are seeing a shortage of " reconditioned cheap" ball locks. If I was grabbing kegs now I would be going Pin lock and get more than I needed.
 
The most obvious distinguishing feature is probably the pressure relief valve on the lid. Most ball locks have one, many pin locks don't. (Although I have 12 pin lock kegs and 9 of them have the valve.)

Otherwise, the dimensions are slightly different, although that's not really a "quality" difference.
 
FWIW, the football stadium in town still uses cornelius-style kegs for dispensing on game days. The campus is Pepsi-only, so I would assume that they are ball-locks. However, less than a decade ago the campus was coke-only... who knows. They may still be using the pin locks.

AEB in Italy still makes ball lock kegs, which are awesome (except that the lid is not reversible, much like on pin lock kegs), but pricy. Now, cheap Chinese knock-offs are starting to appear that are going to get someone killed because they are rated for less than half the pressure that "real" cornies can handle... about the same as the plastic sanke kegs that have injured several people in professional breweries over the past year.

I've never liked pin-lock kegs because the lid is not reversible, they require an expensive tool to remove the pins, the lids don't have a manual pressure relief valve, and they are fatter, so I could only fit one of them in my kegerator vs. 2 ball locks.
 
Now what would a home brew supply shop gain by ginning up a possible shortage of a product? Hmmm....doesn't make sense. :)

The shortage is perceived, but I'm not sure it is an actual shortage or not. If there are enough kegs around for all of the homebrewers who use them to have them, is doesn't matter if they are making more. If they are making enough new to replace what is lost in broken, thrown away, etc. then there still isn't a shortage. If that many people are getting into kegging (and sticking with the hobby, this is crucial as I think alot of people try this hobby only to move on to another hobby), then there could be a shortage down the line.

What has surprised me is that some entrepreneur hasn't come along and come up with a replacement for the Cornelius keg. That tells me that there isn't really a shortage (or its not bad enough) for somebody to come up with a replacement. Which leads me back to my original question: Why is a home brew shop saying there is a shortage when there really isn't one? Again...hmmmmm....
 
My LHBS has been out of ball locks for a while. They are only stocking Pin Locks now which is the setup I am currently installing. My only complaint so far about pin locks is the lack of an actual purge. I have to disconnect the gas in line, and press in the valve to releive pressure. Other than that I have had zero issues so far.
 
My LHBS has been out of ball locks for a while. They are only stocking Pin Locks now which is the setup I am currently installing. My only complaint so far about pin locks is the lack of an actual purge. I have to disconnect the gas in line, and press in the valve to releive pressure. Other than that I have had zero issues so far.

just so newbs don't get confused - some pin lock kegs do come with a purge. you can even get new lids with the purge installed. All of my pin locks have purges.
 
Here's what I do to purge a keg if you don't have a relief valve in the lid: keep an extra gas disconnect handy. When you want to vent, detach your regular gas disconnect and attach the extra one. It will open the poppet all the way and vent quickly. Much faster and easier on the thumbs than trying to press the poppet.
 
hvjackson said:
Here's what I do to purge a keg if you don't have a relief valve in the lid: keep an extra gas disconnect handy. When you want to vent, detach your regular gas disconnect and attach the extra one. It will open the poppet all the way and vent quickly. Much faster and easier on the thumbs than trying to press the poppet.

This is good. Or you can get a $3 pin lock purge tool and do the same.

I actually have both, and I have to say there's no quality difference. However, with ball lock kegs you don't need any special tools to disassemble or purge, and there are (currently, anyway) more accessories designed to work, out of the package, with ball locks. I started with pin locks and won't be rotating them out... FWIW I can transport my pin locks in a 15 gallon cooler, keeping them cold for a long time. Can't do that with ball locks and my particular cooler!

Also, most know this, but there's every sort of ball lock/pin lock part variation out there. I've seen pin lock kegs with one ball lock disconnect, tons of ball lock kegs with "pin lock" lids. You name it, someone has some screwy setup. It's what makes cornies so versatile... if it works and is safe, who cares?
 
What has surprised me is that some entrepreneur hasn't come along and come up with a replacement for the Cornelius keg. That tells me that there isn't really a shortage (or its not bad enough) for somebody to come up with a replacement.

A company did come up with a replacement -- plastic corny kegs (go figure which genius that came from). Unfortunately, so far it's killed 1 guy (Red Hook worker) and injured several others.
 
I've heard that the posts/valves/rings on the brand new ball lock kegs are not replaceable? It seems silly to me. Any truth to that?
 
Define "the brand new ball lock kegs".

There's plenty of manufacturers from various countries. Which ones are you referring to? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.
 
Define "the brand new ball lock kegs".

There's plenty of manufacturers from various countries. Which ones are you referring to? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

Good point. I'll ask a different way. Has anybody purchased a new unused ball lock keg and found that they can't repair/replace posts, rings, valves etc?
I'm thinking it's BS as well but had to ask.


I think I found my answer:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/kegging/ball-lock-soda-keg-5-gal.html

"Brand new five gallon stainless keg with ball-lock fittings and pressure relief valve in the lid. Measures 25" tall by 10" in diameter. Note that the poppets in these kegs are not removable and should be cleaned in place."

So you can't replace the poppets in these. Probably have to replace the entire post if a poppet gets borked up for some reason.
 
some of the new kegs don't use standard Firestone or Cornelius poppets.
its still questionable if universal poppets (like cornykegs.com sells) will work. most of them are still new enough to be in the cleaning stage, not the replacing stage.
 
Supply and demand curves are such that both ball- and pin-lock kegs are going to be available for years and years to come. The days of picking them up for $10 a piece, however, are long since gone. Homebrewers rode that particular market glut for everything that it was worth, which is great. Now we've got to go find the next one.
 
"Ball Lock Kegs are soon to be a thing of the past! Most shops are already completely out."

QUOTE]

I have b een buying them on ebay for years but all of a sudden they dryed up....

My new rule is if you see them buy them...

Some come on the market when some guy goes out to clean out his warehouse but they are almost gone.

Monitor EBAY... would be my suggestion.
 
Anyone have specific info on the conversion parts to convert pin-lock kegs to ball-lock...? I have mostly ball-lock kegs, and that's what my kegerator is set up for, but I also have a couple older pin-lock kegs I'd like to get some use out of....
 
All of the lids on my pin lock kegs are reversible.

Skinny-handled lids? Because the wide-handled lids will hit the posts when turned 180 degrees. The default lids for pin locks are usually wide-handled.

The problem with the AEB ball-locks is that the welded handle gets in the way.
 
MalFet said:
Supply and demand curves are such that both ball- and pin-lock kegs are going to be available for years and years to come. The days of picking them up for $10 a piece, however, are long since gone. Homebrewers rode that particular market glut for everything that it was worth, which is great. Now we've got to go find the next one.

Au contrair. I just picked up two kegs for ten bucks a pop! Maybe they were the last...
 
Today I talked to a guy that has worked for Coke for the last 30 years in distribution. He said that the corny kegs are still used daily for premix soda. He also said he believes pepsi does also, although couldn't confirm. So at least Coke for sure is still using them and likely they are still being made. Any "shortage" of corny kegs is probably manufactured, I would guess.
 
Yea my guess is that whoever started this thread probably knows chicken little and is worried about the sky falling too.😳
 
The prices have definitely gone up in the last year or two, but I've never not been able to find them for sale locally or online.
 
punk_rockin2001 said:
Today I talked to a guy that has worked for Coke for the last 30 years in distribution. He said that the corny kegs are still used daily for premix soda. He also said he believes pepsi does also, although couldn't confirm. So at least Coke for sure is still using them and likely they are still being made. Any "shortage" of corny kegs is probably manufactured, I would guess.

Yup. I was given a tip about some cornies behind a local gas station. I went there, confirmed they were cornies, and went in to ask about them. They still have the cold plate style draft handle coke dispenser. I think they were pin and ball lock. Seems like fanta was in ball lock kegs and all the other "coke" branded stuff was pin lock.
 
The thread is a interesting read. My observations on ball lock kegs:

-Used prices did rise as it became a commodity with more demand over the past few years.
-AEB was the only major player making them for the past few recent years and there product was a premium price.
-New prices have come down as other markets (China/India) have started to make products.
-New prices will continue to see downward pressure.
-Used prices are about as high as the market can bear right now (60% of New).
-Kegs have such a long life it is entirely possible there are more now then there were a few years ago.
 
My local brew shop has like 15-20 Ball lock cornies just sitting in the back for $50...a bit spendier than they used to be i suppose, but far from a shortage.

Maybe just more here because brewing and beer are a bigger thing in Oregon than most places? Dunno.
 
I lucked out today, and picked up 3 ball-lock cornies from a coworker who doesn't brew anymore. $40 total! Woot!
 
Have to agree, "reconditioned and cheap" kegs are becoming scarce. New ones will be available for a long time.
 
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