Rust forming on my elements

I had been testing my new setup and left water in the kettle for three days. I noticed some rust forming at the base of my elements. I cleaned off most with vinegar and baking soda, but is that normal? I know I screwed up leaving water in the kettle for that long, but since I use tap water I normally fill my kettle with water a day or two before brewing to let the chlorine burn off and don't want to fight rust all of the time. Ill have to look up my exact elements, but they're they're the $10 Camcorder 1500 watt ones from Home Depot.

Most elements are made with a ferrous base that will rust. You can install a magnesium anode in your kettle if the kettle is stainless. That will keep down the rust. I put a thin layer of silicone adhesive over the base of the heating element inside the pot after it was all put together with the retaining nut. Works quite well but might have to be redone in a couple of years.

I put in one of these Magnesium anodes, fine so far touch wood.

As far as the chlorine goes, you can get a filter to remove chlorine. I use an RV filter that's rate NSF since I'm using a hose to fill mine.

There is no need to leave your kettles full. Just clean and drain them when your done. If you are worried about the chlorine look into a carbon filter or campden tablets at 1 pill per 20 gals.

I had bad rust too, even with a magnesium anode and not leaving water in the HLT for more than 5 or 6 hours. I've never had rust issues in the BK but the wort eventually forms a black protective layer on the element base that the HLT will never get. If you don't want to put in an anode or just want to be sure it won't rust, go with the food grade silicone all over the element base and lock nut.

Both my HLT and BK had anodes and I verified electrical connection between the element base and anode base. No idea why I'd get rust with that configuration but I did. So silicone it was for the HLT. BK has never had a problem.

j33p4x4 said:

I had been testing my new setup and left water in the kettle for three days. I noticed some rust forming at the base of my elements. I cleaned off most with vinegar and baking soda, but is that normal? I know I screwed up leaving water in the kettle for that long, but since I use tap water I normally fill my kettle with water a day or two before brewing to let the chlorine burn off and don't want to fight rust all of the time. Ill have to look up my exact elements, but they're they're the $10 Camcorder 1500 watt ones from Home Depot.

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All of the stainless steel elements still have zinc plated steel threaded ends. The best solution is to drain and dry out the kettle when you aren't using it.

The rust is the #1 issue with these elements. They're definitely not made for brewing; they're made for hot water heaters.


There are non-rusting stainless ones that appear for sale from time to time but they're hard to find.

It would be great if Camco or someone else would make a stainless version for us.
(I put food grade NSF certified silicone over the base of my elements because someone said that that would keep them from rusting... Not so much...)

Once someone starts making and selling non-rusting versions at least it will be relatively easy to swap them out...


Adam

I ran across this a while back but decided sanitary silicone was cheaper:

http://www.brewmation.com/Heating_Elements.html

I'd still be curious how it works out though...

Their elements don't actually appear to be stainless steel, more orange in color, though it is magnetic. They say the discoloration is a result of the manufacturing process.

In any case 430 is cheap and less corrosion resistant compared to 304.

I would also be worried about these cheaper elements and if they were low watt density. I used two cheap camcos for a while before I realized after a really bad batch that they had been scorching the wort. I thought there was a funny taste for a while before hand but not too bad. Then I got one just a couple bucks more that was ULWD.

In regards to scorching, keeping the wort moving with a pump while it comes up to temp can help. Once it gets into a boil the convection current is enough to keep the contact time short enough to prevent scorching and the pump can be shut down.

ULWD really is key here, along with making sure you keep the element clean after a brew session. Doing these two things should prevent scorching even without stirring or pumps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...11189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B000701HEQ

No more rust.

TimL said:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000701HEQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&link_code=as3&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B000701HEQ

No more rust.

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How do you use these, just toss it into the kettle? Do you need to clean it to keep a non oxidized surface?

Regarding the above referenced anode. Like someone else mentioned, I also tried that and ultimately it didn't help much with my rust. I finally used some 316SS elements (sheath and base) that I was lucky to find on eBay and that solved the problem completely. With the Camco's I would always get a paper towel and dry around the element the best I could after use and still had rust. For some of us it's a very persistent problem.

The anode I linked to has 1/2" male threads, so I drilled a hole in my aluminum kettle, and used a high temp silicon gasket and SS nut to secure it.


I'm not sure why this doesn't work for some, maybe water chemistry? Just a guess. My water is pretty hard, but there's probably more to it than that.

jsguitar, Are those ULWD elements? who makes them?

emyers said:

jsguitar, Are those ULWD elements? who makes them?

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I think so but they may be LWD. I'm not sure. They're 4500W and the element is 15.5" and folded back. They were designed by an American company called Tempco for a business that wanted them for steam tables.

I started a thread at the time here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/316ss-4500w-elements-ebay-369999/

They've worked just as I'd hoped. I have since added a small stainless steel European tea kettle element as well to boost the wattage up to 6000W. That one is surely HWD but has worked well in the set up. You can tell the stainless is not as high quality but it's fine. What I like about those is that they come with a small light on their hardware so you can see when the elements are firing now.

Unfortunately, the 316 SS elements were pretty unique and I haven't seen any others like them. You do see the big industrial ones on eBay that usually have a box on them and sometimes a thermostat. They're usually pretty expensive though.

orangehero said:

Their elements don't actually appear to be stainless steel, more orange in color, though it is magnetic. They say the discoloration is a result of the manufacturing process.

In any case 430 is cheap and less corrosion resistant compared to 304.

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And less so compared to incoloy, too. An incoloy element with at least a 304 base, IMHO is what's required to be considered a "brewing grade" element.

jsguitar said:

Regarding the above referenced anode. Like someone else mentioned, I also tried that and ultimately it didn't help much with my rust. I finally used some 316SS elements (sheath and base) that I was lucky to find on eBay and that solved the problem completely. With the Camco's I would always get a paper towel and dry around the element the best I could after use and still had rust. For some of us it's a very persistent problem.

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I remember seeing that and was about to report he same. Glad to see you found your way here and could provide direct feedback. I've seen others who have reported that installing a sacrificial anode doesn't really help in brewing applications, too.


Adam

Those 316SS elements are almost overkill for brewing but they're SUPER expensive from the MFGR... It's a shame that there's not someone else selling either 304, 316, or incoloy elements with a fully stainless (304, 316, or incoloy base)...


The 316SS elements, if you can ever find one are NPT thread vs. NPS; Teflon would probably enable them to make a liquid tight seal but I don't really want to have to deal with Teflon...

It would be great if a couple of the really large home brewing sites could go together and make a custom order from one of the MFGRs for brewers...

A 5000 watt ULV design (so you can safely run two of them off of a 50amp 240v circuit) with a less sharp angle on the ripples but a longer length than the Camco (so that you maintain the ULW heat density but they can fit into the longer "neck" tri clamp fittings) would be IDEAL for home brewing, IMHO.

Obviously any of the over-heat sensors that are built-into some of the elements should be excluded from these.

3/4" clearance between each element "leg" would make them easy to get into the nooks and crannies to clean, too.

1" NPS thread, too.


Adam