Wine Newbie Wants to Make a Merlot

I've been brewing beer for a while and have tossed together several batches of apfelwein because it is dirt cheap and simple. I also have a small batch of mead that I hope my wife will eventually enjoy. Outside of that my winemaking experience is zero.

But now I would like to attempt a "real" wine, a Merlot. I know kits are available, but my experience with kit beers has been poor so I am leery about buying one for wine. I have also heard it is possible to get juice in buckets.

The Merlots that I have enjoyed were generally light on tannin bitterness, nicely balanced (neither too sweet or too dry). I particularly like wines from the Furnace Brook Winery in W. Massachusetts.

Any pointers as to the best avenue to start? If someone can vouch for a particularly good kit I'm open to suggestions for those, but I'm open to anything really.

I've never used them, but M&M grape might not be that bad for shipping for you. http://www.juicegrape.com/jg_sitespecific/docs/2012 Frozen Must Retail.pdf

Looks like they might have some decently priced Merlot, but you might need to be able to find a press because I think their juice buckets come with solids in them.

Not sure where I could get a wine press, unless my LHBS supply happens to rent them. Can it be pressed the old fashioned way, say with my nude wife's well-scrubbed bare feet?

What are the advantages of having the whole fruits and skins vs. just the juice?

Thunder_Chicken said:

Not sure where I could get a wine press, unless my LHBS supply happens to rent them. Can it be pressed the old fashioned way, say with my nude wife's well-scrubbed bare feet?

What are the advantages of having the whole fruits and skins vs. just the juice?

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If you're going to make a good red wine, you need to ferment on the skins for the first few days, then press. I don't have a press, so I do small batches and use old fashioned squeezing technique. Crushing is first- that's done by hand (or by feet, I guess). After you crush, you ferment for about 5 days, then press.

I'd really suggest a good quality kit for a good wine in the end. A good kit is about $135-160 and makes 6 gallons of wine. The reason is that making wine is technically very easy- but there are acid adjustments to make, sulfiting, pressing, and MLF to do. It's not difficult physically, but it really takes some know-how and some specialized equipment to do it and do it right for reds.

You can buy frozen juice, but you totally lose the benefits of fermenting on the skins, and you still have the acid adjustments and might have to add tannin since you don't have the skins.

For the first go, I'd really suggest a kit. Wine kits in the $150 range tend to be excellent, and are easy to do.

Are red wines "harder" to pull off well vs. whites? Would a white be a better place to start?

I've seen Winexpert kits offered through Northern Brewer with skins. Most are out of stock but I assume that is because we are not quite in grape season yet.

So the pressing part isn't crushing the fruit initially, it is really squeezing wine from the fermented skins? I'm reading that some kits come with a packet of skins - are they separated from the juice?

Thunder_Chicken said:

Are red wines "harder" to pull off well vs. whites? Would a white be a better place to start?

I've seen Winexpert kits offered through Northern Brewer with skins. Most are out of stock but I assume that is because we are not quite in grape season yet.

So the pressing part isn't crushing the fruit initially, it is really squeezing wine from the fermented skins? I'm reading that some kits come with a packet of skins - are they separated from the juice?

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Yes. The good quality kits have a pack of dried skins that you put in the wine during primary. You don't have to crush/press/acid adjust kits.

The Winexpert kit doesn't sound too bad then. I'll keep my eyes open for that kit when it becomes available. I'll probably have to break down and get a glass carboy while I am at it.

Thanks!

Thunder_Chicken said:

The Winexpert kit doesn't sound too bad then. I'll keep my eyes open for that kit when it becomes available. I'll probably have to break down and get a glass carboy while I am at it.

Thanks!

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For wine kits, it has to be a 6 gallon carboy. It can be a Better bottle, or glass, but it has to be 6 gallons.

Yooper said:

For wine kits, it has to be a 6 gallon carboy. It can be a Better bottle, or glass, but it has to be 6 gallons.

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Yep. I assume that my 6-gallon ale pail is OK for a 6 gallon wine primary? I did 6 gallons of apfelwein in it without any problems.

Regarding the skins - reading through the forums while making mead and ciders I've learned that some people add raisins to their musts, partly as yeast nutrient and partly for body. I did this both with my mead and my cider. Is adding raisins kind of a poor man's cheat to replace skins in wines? Is that what the skins do for the wine?

I would highly suggest starting with a kit as well and 6 gallon carboy is a must. You should ferment a good red kit in a bucket with a volume of at least 7 gallons. When you ferment a high quality red kit with skins and seeds you will want to "punch the cap" once or twice a day. The CO2 coming out of the fermentation causes the skins and seeds to float to the top causing the "cap" to form and you want them to be in the liquid as much as possible. So, the 7 gallon capacity of the fermentor is necessary.

I will also suggest to buy the most expensive kit you can afford. You truly do get what you pay for. Higher priced kits are less concentrated and which means less processing for them from the manufacturer and less water added on your end before fermentation. The final result then is a much fuller bodied wine that you will want to make again.

Good thing I have all this money burning a hole in my pocket; I'd better spend it on more buckets and carboys

I've spent more than the cost of a good kit on a case of good wine. I'm less concerned with cost per bottle than with enjoyment per bottle.

Wine kits tend to be much better than beer kits. Follow the instructions exactly on a high end (expensive) wine kit and you will get great results.

Another suggestion would be to check out the kit making forum here, http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php. I also belong to the forums there and some of the members are actual wine kit manufacturers.

Mods, if it is inappropriate for me to mention this other forum, please delete this post at your discretion. It is, in my opinion, the best forum for wine making as Home Brew Talk is the best for beer.

The kit just went into stock, so I am placing the order now. I'll be driving up to the not-so-LHBS for the necessary bucket and carboy.

Anything else that I am likely to need that isn't typically used in homebrewing? I have Campden tablets and a large autosiphon. I'll probably pick up a degassing wand while I am there, as even my current apfelwein is really gassy. I bumped the fermenter while topping up the airlocks and it bubbled over like I threw a handful of Mentos in! I'm afraid to touch or move it now.

Hi, ime beer kits arent really that good they always tend to have a nasty after taste so when i first tried a wine kit i was very surprised just how good they are. The wine kits vary in price quite alot and it is a case of u get what u paid for. Av tried beaverdales, california connissuer and some of the selection kits and i find the more u pay the better the wine.

Thunder_Chicken said:

The kit just went into stock, so I am placing the order now. I'll be driving up to the not-so-LHBS for the necessary bucket and carboy.

Anything else that I am likely to need that isn't typically used in homebrewing? I have Campden tablets and a large autosiphon. I'll probably pick up a degassing wand while I am there, as even my current apfelwein is really gassy. I bumped the fermenter while topping up the airlocks and it bubbled over like I threw a handful of Mentos in! I'm afraid to touch or move it now.

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What about a corker? Can you borrow a floor corker? If not, buying a "double lever" corker is ok but you'll want #8 corks if you are using a hand corker. You'll need 30 corks with that kit.

Yooper said:

What about a corker? Can you borrow a floor corker? If not, buying a "double lever" corker is ok but you'll want #8 corks if you are using a hand corker. You'll need 30 corks with that kit.

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I figured that I would deliberately not get a corker for a while so I have a cast iron excuse not to bottle early. Psychological warfare!

I should have asked if my LHBS will rent/lend a corker. Everything I bought today can be repurposed for beermaking if this wine experiment doesn't work out, so I'll probably try to rent or borrow one when the time comes for this batch. I have some friends that make wine who I am certain have corkers. If it comes out really good and I decide to do it more often then I'll get a good corker.

Here's today's haul from the LHBS. My wife calls the bucket the Wino Wessel.

I got a notice of a shipping label being created for the kit - 51.9 lbs! So I take it that the juice provided is not concentrate - straight juice and skins? I think this kit supplies yeast and oak as well. Can't wait to see this kit!

Thunder_Chicken said:

I got a notice of a shipping label being created for the kit - 51.9 lbs! So I take it that the juice provided is not concentrate - straight juice and skins? I think this kit supplies yeast and oak as well. Can't wait to see this kit!

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I think those kits are juice mostly, with some concentrate. The more juice the better, so the better kits tend to be more expensive. Some cheaper kits are all/mostly concentrate and you use more water in them. The better kits still have some concentrate and you add water, but less. Some kits are like 16L of juice, while others have like 9L.

This kit was $163 plus shipping, $200 in the LHBS that I visited today. I'll take it this isn't the prison hooch kit

Personal note - I spent nearly $300 on my hobby today. Feels good to be so self-absorbed sometimes.

I decided to unbox my kit and take a look at the contents. I want to start this kit later in the summer when I have some time to take care of it properly. I'll document my progress as I go so other folks who might be considering a kit can know what to expect (and know what mistakes to avoid).

Looks like a very well done kit. 2 bags, one of juice and one of skins, muslin bag, 3 bags of oak cubes, 2 brown packets of oak powder, 2 packets of chitosan for clarifying (clear watery stuff), packet of Lalvin EC 1118 yeast, packets of bentonite, potassium metabisulfite, and potassium sorbate, and 30 labels (kinda sexy labels, gotta get some nice bottles to go with them). I pulled out the yeast packet and put it in the fridge, but it has been stored in the cellar and I expect that the yeast is still fine. My LHBS carries it if freshness becomes questionable.

Kit instructions are same as those found online here http://www.winexpert.com/pdfs/kit-instructions/EclipseWSkinsInstructions_EN.pdf

OK, I "assembled" the kit today. Nothing too difficult really, though with 6 gallons of liquid things get mighty heavy so watch your backs and lift with your knees and all that. Add bentonite dissolved in 1/2 gallon warm water, juice (about 4.5 gallons), rinse the juice bag with one more gallon of warm water, and top up to 6 gallons. Add oak powder, then put grapeskins loosely in the muslin bag and stir it in. Gravity is supposed to fall between 1.080 and 1.100 (mine was 1.090). Check temperatures are between 72-75F, sprinkle the dry yeast on the surface, close it up and stick on the airlock.

If you follow the directions well the volumes and gravity comes up pretty much spot on. The smell of the Merlot juice was amazing! Definitely not Welch's grape juice.

Now I just need to punch down the grapeskins daily for the next 7 days, then rack to secondary when gravity is below 1.010. So far so good.

Day 2 - I opened the fermenter to punch down the cap. The grapeskins are now floating on the surface, and you could see and hear the fizzing of the CO2 being generated. Grape soda! I pushed down the bag and swirled it around a bit and stirred down some of the gas. Airlock is going like mad.

Thanks for the updates! I'm making rhubarb wine and dandelion right now, but am going to start a new kit wine when the rhubarb goes to secondary in a day or so. I bought it last week, because I wanted a new red. I wanted a chianti or sangiovese, and I can't remember which I bought.

I'm enjoying this kit so far. The smell is wonderful, and it is nice to be able to crack open the fermentor and see what is going on in there.

While I was doing this I was also brewing my take of George Washington's Small Beer, and I grabbed a cup of krausen beer from my Centennial Pale Ale to pitch. I figured that if I could poke and prod the wine while fermenting, why not do the same with my pale ale, so I gave it a good stir. It is only 24 hrs in, and I'll leave it alone from now on, but I don't think a little rousing and some O2 will hurt the beer at this point. The beer was a very pretty golden green.

Sorry to ask questions on your thread, but. Ok so a good kit cost around 150$ soo that's about 5$ per bottle. Can anyone tell me how much a bottle of wine of this quality would cost In a store?

EDIT: assuming it was made as it was meant to be, and turned out on par.

Well, the Merlot that I like to drink, by Furnace Brook Winery out in Richmond MA, is $18 per bottle, more if I need to have it shipped.

I had to buy a new fermentor, carboy, a corker, and bottles, so the cost/benefit analysis goes out the window. I think if I tallied everything up, I'd probably still beat $18 per bottle, but not by much. If I do more wines then those up front costs get diluted and the cost per bottle would go down.

In the end I don't really care, within reason. It is a hobby and it is fun, and I like knowing what goes into my wine and engaging in the process.

Yeah, I already have all the equipment. I'm just wondering how much a bottle of that quality would cost. Really just to see if it's worth it.

I'm not sure what to tell you yet. I'll be sure to put my tasting notes up in 6-12 months, maybe that will help.

My gut says that this is a very well done kit, and I have the capability and patience to execute this kit properly, so I am hopeful that a very good quality wine will be the eventual result.

The only place where I likely will deviate from the directions is in the addition of potassium sorbate. That crap destroyed a mead that I attempted a few months ago, and since this is a dry wine it does not need it. I think the kit makers provide it as insurance so newbies don't make bottlebombs when they bottle too early without checking gravity. Most people can't taste it, but I can, and it is nasty.

Day 3: Gravity down to 1.047, well on track. The must is losing its sweet grape juice character and is definitely more wine-like now. Still very aggressive bubbling and carbonation. It takes some diligent stirring and prodding to knock the gas out of the grapeskin bag so it will submerge. It never completely sinks, but I call it good when I can just see a little of the muslin bag at the surface of the wine.

The mass of the grapeskins is greatly diminished. When it went in initially it very much resembled a large fruit pie filling, in mass as well as consistency; very sticky with sugar and very little juice. It seems that most of this sugar is getting out into the wine as intended.

Day 4: Down to 1.019! Lalvin EC-1118 is a beast! The must is running on the warmish side, about 77F vs. the recommended 72-75F range, not anything to worry about. There seems to be less gas in suspension; a few stirs of the paddle make it fizz like soda, but it drops flat pretty quickly.

Supposed to rack on day 7 if gravity is less than 1.010 - looks like there won't be a problem with that.

Day 5: Down to 1.004!

Definitely tasting like wine now. The grape juice sweetness is all gone, and the oak is very noticeable.

Day 6: Gravity is 0.998! This is the stated FG. No airlock activity but a lot of gas came up when I punched down the skins, but it falls flat pretty quick.

Day 7: SG 0.997, first racking into carboy. Left most of the yeast and the oak powder in the bottom.

10 days to the next racking.

Keep this thread going. I am primarily a beer brewer, with a few batches of cider under my belt, and would like to dabble in wine as well.

Will do. Ferment is pretty much done at this point, wine is just sitting quietly in the carboy, hopefully clearing. Next racking will be probably Sunday or Monday next week, adding stabilizers and clarifiers.

I have the same kit; I started mine in March. It is still clearing, but it looks delicious. I do not plan to bottle until after Christmas, I've got to many in the pipeline before then. Maybe we can compare. Notes next year!

OK, 10 more days and a racking. I racked to my plastic primary, added the provided k-meta dissolved in a 1/4 cup of water and the packages of chitosan clarifier. Whipped it pretty hard in the bucket, then racked it back into the glass carboy and continued to whip it until no gas foamed out. Then I added the three bags of oak cubes. The oak is slightly toasted and has a very nice aroma.

With good racking and the volume added from the liquid chitosan and the 1/4 cup of water with the k-meta there was no need to top up. I'll break out a good Merlot for the next racking as I'll probably have to make up for volume lost in racking and absorbed by the oak.

A couple of notes - I bought a wine whip that has two little paddles like this, which tended to just make the wine whirlpool.



I'd recommend maybe getting one like this:



The paddles work, but you had to really slam it with the drill at high speed to get it to cavitate, then you had to sit and wait for it to stop whirlpooling. Pulse...wait...pulse...wait....It also tends to dance around and bend and ding off the sides kinda uncontrollably. It works, but I saw the 3-prong used on BrewingTV and it seems better and easier to use.

Also - if you don't have the luxury of 2 carboys and need to first rack into your plastic primary and then back into the cleaned carboy, you probably want to wait to add the chitosan until the wine is back in the glass carboy. The chitosan puts an electrical charge on all suspended solids and it appears that plastic attracts all these bits really well. It was a pain to clean out the fermenter and all my plastic racking equipment as you couldn't just rinse it, everything needed a wipedown. The good news is that chitosan appears to do a hell of a job clarifying.

Anyway, all looks good. It's definitely wine. 8 more days or so for a final racking, then 28 days or so to bottling.

According to the directions I was supposed to rack yesterday, but today was more convenient and I don't think an extra day is going to hurt anything. I pulled a nice sample today. It is surprisingly clear, and the color is very deep.

The taste is quite good. Right now it tastes pretty much like a good commercial Merlot, which might be an indicator that some of the stuff you see on the shelves of the store might be better with some ageing. The oak is definitely there but not overbearing, something I had worried about when I started the kit.

I'm going to finish dinner then do the final racking before bottling. I intend to let it age so, per the instructions, I am going to add additional metabisulfite (Campden tablets, 1 per gallon) when I rack it out of the carboy.

I will probably not bottle this in 28 days as the directions say is possible, but I'll probably wait until the Thanksgiving holiday (or perhaps even Christmas) when I have some time for a bottling session. From what I understand bulk ageing in the carboy is not harmful and is probably beneficial. If this is a bad idea, you wiser oenophiles have 28 days to talk me out of this idea.