23 Tip Jet Burner problems

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Sherpa FE

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OK, now I have a new problem.
I am finishing the build of a brutus 10 stand. I am using (3) 23 tip jet type burners from Top Food service, that I have plugged to only use 10 tips.
System is configured for L.P propane, low pressure regulator on the propane tank.

I tried to fire up one of the burners the other day, and I could only get one of the 10 jets to light on the burner.

I tried a high pressure regulator and all the jets fired, blue flame at bottom, tipped with yellow, about 3 - 4 inches high. However, the gas vlaves that I have from honeywell, I have been told can be damaged by high pressure.

So I re-connect the low pressure regulator to the propane tank, and it goes back to not wanting to light all the tips.

Things I have done to try to correct problem.
1) Checked for leaks, none located.
2) Swapped regulator with ANOTHER new LP regulator, same problem,
3) Called place where I got the burners, they ASSURED me, after they checked, that I did indeed have the proper LP burners, and not a NG burner.


At this point, I am lost, and need help trying to figure out what the problem is. ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Josh
 
I tried a high pressure regulator and all the jets fired, blue flame at bottom, tipped with yellow, about 3 - 4 inches high. However, the gas vlaves that I have from honeywell, I have been told can be damaged by high pressure.

So I re-connect the low pressure regulator to the propane tank, and it goes back to not wanting to light all the tips.

I use the same burner for my 50 gl mash tun with the Honewell gas valve, no problem.

Did you install the LP kit for your Honeywell valve?
The first thing I had to do adjust the pressure, remove the cap and set the
correct pressure for your burner.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
I use the same burner for my 50 gl mash tun with the Honewell gas valve, no problem.

Did you install the LP kit for your Honeywell valve?
Yes I sure Did.
The first thing I had to do adjust the pressure, remove the cap and set the
correct pressure for your burner.
The thing is, when I was test firing the burner, I was just using the boil kettle, bypassing the gas regulators and I shut off the gas valves to those 2 burners. So essentially I was running straight gas to the boil burner.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Just to add something else, I did seal around all the jets on the burners.
Seems, my edit to your post didnt look like I thought it would, Sorry.
 
My set-up uses four burners.
To prevent the low pressure valves, and burners from not getting anough gas flow, each valve is equipped with a low pressure regulator.
The tank supplies the gas at high pressure to all regulators.

Sample of the different quick exchange gas modules I use.
All my burners required adjusting the valve outlet pressure.
100_5059-1.jpg


100_5060.jpg



Cheers,
ClaudiusB



Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
Yup - fickle. I've got the same burners and similar issues. I kind of accepted some of the limitations and resigned myself to installing a more comprehensive fix "later" (read: likely never). At this point, I am comfortable with my diagnosis that the ignition issues are from pluging jets and having less jet flame crossing over unignited gas than the burner was designed for.

My fix is that I just don't try and light the burners unless I have the kettle/MLT/HLT sitting on top of the burner to capture gas. In open air, it can be difficult to get them all going. Other than that, I adjust the pilot flame to throw a pretty big spread when I first light the burner. After a few minutes, it seems to sort itself out.
 
At this point, I am comfortable with my diagnosis that the ignition issues are from pluging jets and having less jet flame crossing over unignited gas than the burner was designed for.

I am lucky, have never seen a pluged jet.

I kind of accepted some of the limitations and resigned myself to installing a more comprehensive fix "later" (read: likely never).

Since my system is automated the burners have to fire.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
I was just thinking,
since I am using an integrated gas beam, would I have to purge out the "air" in the beam for the jets to work properly? Could there be some residual air left in there, even after running the bk burner with the high pressure regulator?
 
This all a very easy fix, I should have posted this solution a while back, people plugging up burners , switching from high pressure to low pressure etc.

Please do yourself a favor and get an 0-30 psi or a 0-60 psi pressure regulator, they work the bomb on these jet type burners and probably well on all others . Get the right flame every time..

Propane Regulator for Propane Gas Regulation

LP Reg.jpg
 
I see the same thing as Gordie. If the brew pot is off the stand the jets have a difficult time all lighting. Put the pot on the stand and all are usually lit within 15 seconds or so.
 
This all a very easy fix, I should have posted this solution a while back, people plugging up burners , switching from high pressure to low pressure etc.

Please do yourself a favor and get an 0-30 psi or a 0-60 psi pressure regulator, they work the bomb on these jet type burners and probably well on all others . Get the right flame every time..

Propane Regulator for Propane Gas Regulation


Wouldnt running a high pressure regulator, on low pressure gas valves cause damage?
What kind of valves are you using?
 
You say that you can only get one of the 10 tips to light, are you lighting them with your pilot light or are you trying to light them individually with a lighter (or match)?

I don't know if this will help, but I use one of those 23 tip burners for my brew stand; it is a natural gas burner instead of propane, but I would think the principle would be the same. If you plugged the tips to where they aren't pointing at each other, then they won't light. But if they are a group where they are all pointing at each other then everything lights and works great.

01-burneroff.jpg


01-5-burner-close-up.jpg
 
Yeah,
I was lighting them with a torch lighter. and they would not stay lit except for the one tip of the burner.
I tried to light them all, but they would go out.
Like I said, only when I hooked up the high pressure LP valve, did they stay lit, but I have heard that will cause damage to the Gas valves.

I dont know, at this point I am wondering if I messed something up when I installed the burners. Just grasping at straws at this point.
 
Gentlemen... Let me chime in here a bit... I don't think I may help much because I spec'ed out my system a totally different way than you fellas have. You fellas have surpassed me! :)

As you know, I used the 10 tip LOW PRESSURE burners to be used with a LOW PRESSURE (.4 psi) regulator from MoreBeer... I have dang near a hundred batches on Brutus now. Most every batch I have all three burners wide open blasting away at some point with a beautiful blue flame on each without fail to this day... I have a vid somewhere...

So first, to help with any problems, I would say to make sure of the burner type that you purchased. Are they high pressure jet burners? Low pressure jet burners? An infinitely adjustable regulator may be able to allow you to set just what you need! No more no less...

I can't say how they will really work actually... It is a volume thing as well as pressure. This is a big reason for my low pressure gas beam. I have a LOT of volume in this beam at a VERY low pressure to supply my three burners at the same time... I am not sure how these things are working with a small black iron pipe supplying the gas to such big burners...

Also, other than being much more quiet, my burners are VERY adjustable...

Sherpa, seems like through deductive reasoning, you indeed have the high pressure jet type burners... I would say to go with what you know my friend! If they work that is great! I can't speak to all the other gadgets yet, and as to what pressures they work at or can handle.

Wish I could help much more my friends!
 
Lonnie,
Thanks for the reply. I am also using the gas beam off of your design. I called the company today, and they assured me that they were indeed the LP gas burners. (not that it means much) something is obviously wrong.

Either a blockage, a leak that I cannot detect, wrong burners, or something else.

arrrgg....I cant wait to get this thing done...LOL
I guess all the set backs will make brewing on this thing all the better.

Josh
 
An infinitely adjustable regulator may be able to allow you to set just what you need! No more no less...
QUOTE]

This IS the solution, take my word for it , this WILL solve your flame problems , no plugging, no guess work, your valves open or close ...period, your pilot depends on gas to stay lit, your burners need gas, regulate from the tank, everything else will take care of itself.;) Don't over think this concept, high pressure or low pressure, it doesn't matter. Just dial in what you need
 
+1 on regulating from the tank. I brewed on my newly completed Brutus system this past weekend for the first time, I employ the exact same burners, however, my system is manual, i.e. no ASCO valves or LOVE controllers. When lighting the burners I open the gas valve enough to get the burner lit then fine-tune the flame with the valve on the regulator from the tank. I was getting too much yellow flame at first ( O2 ) so I backed off at the regulator to get that nice blue flame. I only had two burners in use at one time but everything worked really well, I am totally stoked about future brew days.

There is some great info in this thread, I am sure you will get this situation worked out!
 
Let's go back to the basics, what is the valve part number?
Not all valves are the same.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
Lonnie,
Thanks for the reply. I am also using the gas beam off of your design. I called the company today, and they assured me that they were indeed the LP gas burners. (not that it means much) something is obviously wrong.

Either a blockage, a leak that I cannot detect, wrong burners, or something else.

arrrgg....I cant wait to get this thing done...LOL
I guess all the set backs will make brewing on this thing all the better.

Josh

Ah yes my friend... I am pretty sure you have LP (liquified petroleum) burners indeed. But are you sure that they are not LP (low pressure), LP (liquified petroleum)burners as well... There has been some sense of confusion around the internet including here on this board... As best as I can describe it, I have LP/LP burners! liquified petroleum/low pressure...

Most all systems will run at high pressure... Up to 30 psi... Low pressure will be under 1 (one) psi... Like my system.

It is a big deal as to what regulator you will use although it seems like you may have already figured that much out...
 
I use the same burner for my 50 gl mash tun with the Honewell gas valve, no problem.

Did you install the LP kit for your Honeywell valve?
The first thing I had to do adjust the pressure, remove the cap and set the
correct pressure for your burner.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Josh
You should try this; Claudius is right. Take the cap off where you installed the spring and screw and play with some settings of the screw. I should have thought of this as I had to make some adjustments from the 11 turns.

KD

Edit: Oh wait; this was ont he burner without valves; never mind. You'll need this anyway when you get to those burners.
 
This is the burner that I got, it does not say if it is LP and LP or not.

Here is the only description for it.

WITH 23 COPPER JET TIPS, L.P. GAS AND 175,000 BTU. MADE IN CHINA

Although I did like this one in SS tips, they didnt have this last time.

KECAB005~6A.jpg


KECAB011~12A.jpg
 
Longshot; make sure you don't have any pipe dope blocking your jets from when you sealed. I had this happen with a couple of jets I sealed. I assume this is not the case since you are getting flame from hp regulator, but 3" flame seems very low to me regardless. I get about a two foot flame without choking it down. Other than that, I think it has to be your jets are wrong, if you are sure your beam is pressure tight.
 
Jinkies. Adjustable regulator at the tank. Genius. Might even lead me to unplug my jets and stop obsessively trying to fix little leaks and avoid having teflon pipe gunk on my fingers the day after every brew day...

I just looked up the specs for the ASCO valves that I've got and their max PSI looks well within the range to operate at the 0-30 or 0-60 PSI range of the adjustable pressure regulator.

Is there anything that I may be missing about running up to 60 psi of gas through a ASCO 8210G094 valve? They are listed as rated for 150 max PSI air or inert gas. Unless I'm missing something - I'm assuming I'm ok. I'd really like to avoid blowing myself up, though, so if anyone can think of anything I'd appreciate a shout out.
 
Jinkies. Adjustable regulator at the tank. Genius. Might even lead me to unplug my jets and stop obsessively trying to fix little leaks and avoid having teflon pipe gunk on my fingers the day after every brew day...

I just looked up the specs for the ASCO valves that I've got and their max PSI looks well within the range to operate at the 0-30 or 0-60 PSI range of the adjustable pressure regulator.

Is there anything that I may be missing about running up to 60 psi of gas through a ASCO 8210G094 valve? They are listed as rated for 150 max PSI air or inert gas. Unless I'm missing something - I'm assuming I'm ok. I'd really like to avoid blowing myself up, though, so if anyone can think of anything I'd appreciate a shout out.

Thank you !,I was just about to unsubcribe to this thread :p

Think about the flow of gas here, if you can push gas at a variable rate (within the limits of your valves, and zero to 60 or zero to 30 psi ain't alot) you can idle any pressure you want, and I have (like Lonnie and others)a safety shutoff valve on the primary side of the pilot and the valve. To set this up correctly, idle those valves first, then regulate from the source. I can run my 18 tip Jet/wok burners from BIC lighter height to full out F18 Hornet jets safely, with just the right amount of BTU's, it also fixes the yellow flame issues so many people complain about, because they are not 02 starved. The Honeywell issue is simply another fine adjustment place in which you can adjust. I use STC valves, but this will work with all the valves most people use.

Here's a shot of the burners and valves on my setup:

DSCF0029.jpg


Front:

DSCF0037.jpg
 
Thanks for the help mrbowenz, I ordered the 0-60 regulator today. I spent a frustrating morning trying to figure out what's wrong.

Prosit!!
 
I have had lots of experience with propane and natural gas. The 23 jet burners are usually designed for "Natural gas" and are jetted for this. If you try to run LP the jetting sizes prevents them from burning properly.

Natural gas is very low pressure and so the holes that the gas comes out of are larger. If you run propane on this burner it will be rich regardless of the pressure used because the gas holes should be smaller in a jet burner (brass tip) for propane.

Get the correct LP jets (resize them) or it will not work as is unless you use "Natural gas".
 
If you run propane on this burner it will be rich regardless of the pressure used because the gas holes should be smaller in a jet burner (brass tip) for propane.

Get the correct LP jets (resize them) or it will not work as is unless you use "Natural gas".


I have already run propane on the burners,..... individually. They burn a nice blue flame... Just not enough gas flow to run all at once..
 
I have had lots of experience with propane and natural gas. The 23 jet burners are usually designed for "Natural gas" and are jetted for this. If you try to run LP the jetting sizes prevents them from burning properly.

Natural gas is very low pressure and so the holes that the gas comes out of are larger. If you run propane on this burner it will be rich regardless of the pressure used because the gas holes should be smaller in a jet burner (brass tip) for propane.

Get the correct LP jets (resize them) or it will not work as is unless you use "Natural gas".

That's correct, if you are trying to run LP on NG burners, make sure your using the correct fuel for the correct burners, most vendors including the popoular "topfoodservice" have both NG and LP burners, trying to fire a burner will present major problems if the fuel sorce is incorrect.
 
I recieved the 0-60 regulator in the mail today and tried it on my Brutus, worked like a charm. Just make sure you turn the valve on the regulator down when you first light the burner or you will burn off your retinas...:D
 
I recieved the 0-60 regulator in the mail today and tried it on my Brutus, worked like a charm. Just make sure you turn the valve on the regulator down when you first light the burner or you will burn off your retinas...:D

Those variable regulators are just the fix for most jet burner issues, try runing all your burners at once, I'll bet you'll be even happier you bought it :fro:
 
I did run all of them at once, they just are the shiznit now... thanks again..WOOO HOOOO...:mug:
 
FYI, if you order through topfoodservice.com, they do have the L.P AND NG burners. If you call them and tell them you want the asianfoodservice price (can't order directly), they will give you that lower price.

Also a question... My local propane guy says that I will freeze up my tank if I run in for 60+ minutes at a time. I would like to use one 7 lbs tank, but he recommended two (one for each of my burners). Does one tank work?
 
Also a question... My local propane guy says that I will freeze up my tank if I run in for 60+ minutes at a time. I would like to use one 7 lbs tank, but he recommended two (one for each of my burners). Does one tank work?

I have only run one tank and 2 burners, at the most, at one time. I have run all 3 burners at once with one tank for testing but, the need hasn't arose to run 3 for brewing. You can run at full wide open and really who would want to for any length of time.. but yes to answer your question, one tank works. I boiled 90 minutes last week and it worked fine. You will find that once you have a boil going it doesn't take much heat/propane/burner to keep the boil going. To be accurate we need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges... I'm using a 20# tank...what set up do you have?... I have a Brutus with a gas beam..check out my brutus rig photo's at the link below.
 
Perfect. That is what I thought, but my local propane guy thought different...scary. Lastly, how does the safety shut-off valve work? Most people use these to save their lives?
 
Please do yourself a favor and get an 0-30 psi or a 0-60 psi pressure regulator, they work the bomb on these jet type burners and probably well on all others . Get the right flame every time..


This IS the solution, take my word for it , this WILL solve your flame problems , no plugging, no guess work, your valves open or close ...period, your pilot depends on gas to stay lit, your burners need gas, regulate from the tank, everything else will take care of itself.;) Don't over think this concept, high pressure or low pressure, it doesn't matter. Just dial in what you need

This is horrible advice. The original poster is using a VR8304 Honeywell gas valve. It is rated for not more than 0.5 psig. Just for ****z and giggles I called Honeywell and the technician said if you put even 1 psig of pressure through the valve you risk damage.
 

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