cider keeve

First time trying to keeve.
http://funkfactorybrewing.blogspot.com/2012/12/cider-keeve.html

Its way more work than I thought

Ah, Keeving. Good on ya for giving it a go.

Very interesting yeast blend I've not seen before, good choice I think though, as many old world ciders do have Brett elements to them. Should have lot's of character. Don't be to worried about still having pectin at the bottom, it's pretty common. So long as the juice went brilliantly clear you should be good. My Keeves have been about 50/50 when it comes to having it all rise.

Sucks about your juice efficiency, guess the orchard doesn't have a press of their own?

No, they don't have a press of their own. At least not yet. We had juice pressed to fill 2 wine barrels. But when we asked if they could grind the apples and let the pulp sit for 24 hours before pressing, they said they couldn't. Do you know if any presses in the US are keeving?

None that I know of commercially. most systems that I've seem have the grinder and press in sequence so it would be a big hassle just like you reported.

Follow up on this, I have a successful keeve
http://funkfactorybrewing.blogspot.com/2013/01/cider-keeve-day-23.html

I have never read of someone adding yeast to juice after a successful keeve.

Joe_in_CT said:

I have never read of someone adding yeast to juice after a successful keeve.

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I've seen it mentioned a couple of times in reference to French cider making. Only occasionally inoculating when the natural yeast fail too take hold, but it appears (to me) that they see it as more of fixing a stuck fermentation by increasing the cell count, as opposed to using a commercial yeast as we typically do over here. Both times, the cidermaker ordered yeast previously isolated from a commercial cider operation. Once from a cider lab in Rennes, and once from a cider lab in Rouen.

Yea, I'd venture to guess this is the first time Lambic yeast has been pitched into keeved cider.

What do the french typically use as a fermentation vessel when keeving?

levifunk said:

What do the french typically use as a fermentation vessel when keeving?

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I've mostly seen a mix of neutral oak and stainless steel vessels with some of the oak casks pushing 2,000 gallons probably, but that's far from a representative sample.

LeBreton said:

I've mostly seen a mix of neutral oak and stainless steel vessels with some of the oak casks pushing 2,000 gallons probably, but that's far from a representative sample.

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You think they get any yeast from the previous use of the oak?

levifunk said:

You think they get any yeast from the previous use of the oak?

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Doubtful, they go through a pretty rigorous cleaning process. Now the orchard, the apples, the press and the cidery itself develops it's own unique yeast culture over the years allowing for a consistent product and takes 90% of the guesswork out of using 'wild' yeast.

Another update for those following:
http://funkfactorybrewing.blogspot.com/2013/02/cider-keeve-day-62.html

Interesting.

Are you gonna let it keep going since you've already passed you target or are you planning to help it stall out via multiple rackings the old fashioned way?

Since my goal isn't to have a sweet cider, but rather to have created an environment where brett and saccharo ferment in tandem, I am going to let it continue on. Its encouraging that the fermentation is on track with my lambic fermentations, but I have no idea what is going to happen.