first lager starter

so I'm making my first lager on sunday (maibock) & I was going to get a starter going tonight with wl german lager yeast (1qt to 1 cup dme). I believe its best to leave the starter at room temp (70ish) but I was looking for clarification. also, i've read threads that call for larger starter (stepping up) that are begun at least a week before pitching.

questions: will 1qt starter be sufficient? do i have enough time to get going & pitch on sunday night? if i was making an ale i wouldn't be so worried but this is my first time with lagers....

any help would be greatly appreciated.

It depends on your OG, but a 1 qt simple starter at room temp should at least get the yeast active and growing before it hits the wort. You may also want to add nutrients to both the starter and wort if you have any. Lagers generally need a lot more viable cells than ales, so 1 qt (or 1L) is on the small side for a 5 gallon brew.

If you are able you would be better off making it around 3qts and decanting it by sticking it in the fridge Saturday night, then pour off almost all of the clear liquid off the white yeast cake (the stuff you want, of course) on the bottom of your starter vessel Sunday before pitching.

How big of a starter or how many steps you need to make depends on your OG however a 1 quart starter will not be enough for a lager and definitely not enough for a Maibock. Go to Mr. Malty or Yeast Calc to figure out what you need and don't brew until it's ready. You do not want to waste the amount of time and energy it takes to make a Maibock because you couldn't wait long enough for your yeast to propogate. At the end of the day it's your choice but I would strongly recommend against it. I've made this mistake and got away with it and I've made this mistake and been burned. I will never do it again.

my og is supposed to be 1.071 & according to mr.malty it needs a 7.12L starter? so 7 times the size of the one I was going to make? I usually make my starters (1L) in gallon bottles....should I make a 2-3L then step it up to 7L or do you think I can get away with a 3L starter (the most I think I can get in a gallon jug)? its lookin like I'm not brewing sunday.....boo.

I'd do this a bit differently. In two ways:

1: If you intermittently shake the starter (introducing O2), you need a much smaller starter.
2: By stepping up the starter size, you need less starter wort overall.

I'll spare you the math; you can find a lot about this sort of thing in White and Zainasheff's book "Yeast: the Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation." But I would make a 2-liter starter, shaking intermittently, crash the yeast out, decant, then add 3 liters of wort, bring to high krauesen, and pitch. That'll probably give you the best fermentation in the with the least hassle and time.

Big beers are not simple to make; it's easy to forget that in the early, halcyon days of being a homebrewer when you only want to replicate the beers that stun you the most. You need to buy more, mash more, wait more, and make a ton more yeast - and there's so much more risk of a stuck fermentation or off-flavors. Doubly so for lagers.

thanks for the advice. i found a video referencing the book you mentioned along with a chart for stepping up starters. going to get something a little bigger than the gallon jar & step up the starter from the one vile until I get 500 billion cells. it'll take longer than the 36 hours i'd hoped but i figure its worth the wait. looks like it'll be a long night of brewing after work one day next week instead of sunday.

thanks again.

where is this video, I would like to see it.

http://billybrew.com/stepping-up-a-yeast-starter

after looking at mr. malty again & entering in variables for viability, intermittent shaking, o.g., & growth factor it has me at 11.41 liters of starter. jeez. or i could make a 3L one after buying two more vials of yeast. or hell, just blow another forty bucks and pitch 6 vials and be done with it.

i'm gonna use the chart and step up to 500 billion (ish) cells. i think i need something bigger than a gallon jar though. anyone use any method for larger starters that they care to share (>gallon)?

antony said:

http://billybrew.com/stepping-up-a-yeast-starter

after looking at mr. malty again & entering in variables for viability, intermittent shaking, o.g., & growth factor it has me at 11.41 liters of starter. jeez. or i could make a 3L one after buying two more vials of yeast. or hell, just blow another forty bucks and pitch 6 vials and be done with it.

i'm gonna use the chart and step up to 500 billion (ish) cells. i think i need something bigger than a gallon jar though. anyone use any method for larger starters that they care to share (>gallon)?

Click to expand...

I brew a starter beer to build yeast for my lagers. Make a starter for a 1.042ish hybrid and brew/ferment a steam type beer at ~60F. When that batch is done, rack to secondary and brew/pitch the maibock on the cake at ferm temps or wash the yeast and pitch it.

so...update? i used yeastcalc & made a stepped up starter to get to 500+billion cells but...I wasn't able to brew five days ago (when planned & when the starter was ready). I've left the starter in the fridge & hope to brew next weekend. It looks like a ton of yeast in the gallon jar but i was wondering if I have to make another starter to wake this batch up after a week and a half of fridge storage? My gut tells me no, just warm it to room temp for several hours before pitching. I don't want all this time wasted if I should be doing more.

Advice always appreciated...

Short answer, you're fine.

Long answer, I would add a small amount of wort to wake it up 24 hours before brew day. The reason is only getting fermentation to kick on as soon as possible. I hate lag time, especially with my lagers.

wonderful..thanks, I'll add some wort.

antony said:

my og is supposed to be 1.071 & according to mr.malty it needs a 7.12L starter? so 7 times the size of the one I was going to make? I usually make my starters (1L) in gallon bottles....should I make a 2-3L then step it up to 7L or do you think I can get away with a 3L starter (the most I think I can get in a gallon jug)? its lookin like I'm not brewing sunday.....boo.

Click to expand...

Are you using a stir plate? If so, Mr Malty says that for a 1.071 lager (5.25gal), you need 3 vials of yeast and a 2.17L starter (I'm assuming a 01/08/13 date for this example).

No stir plate (simple starter), 6.8 vials and a 5.78L starter.

i used yeastcalc b/c of the step up info. that says i need 515 billion cells & i only use intermittent shaking (no stir plate). using the step up was a piece of cake, just took some time. Started off with a 2L then stepped up to a 3L. Enough for the gallon jar. I only used one vial for the 2L. That sound right?

Time to step up and make a DIY stir plate for $15 if your gonna be doing many lagers....

It will make your life way easier in so many ways if you do big beers often.

I too am doing my first lager, a California common With California lager yeast. How long do I need to wait until pitching the yeast? I'm making a 1 L starter for a 4 gallons batch.

That strain can be a slow fermenter, so I normally do a 48 hour fermentation on the starter before I pitch it. It will still be plenty active, but also have had a chance to grow.

Is it normally long for fermentation to start? I pitched the yeast in my starter about 36 hours ago and still don't see any signs. Thanks for your help.

That guy is a slow starter. Got an update?

Started about 48 hours in

Sorry to hijack, but my question is along the same lines. I am brewing an Oktoberfest before my root cellar warms up for the summer. Basically my last chance to do a lager before summer and I want it ready in September (traditional Oktoberfest timeframe).

My question: according to the calculator, if I start with 2 packs (let's assume 200 billion cells), I need to have a 1.4l starter of 1.040 gravity to get to 350 billion cells. How do I know when the starter is done? Ie. how do I know that I have 350 billion cells and no residual sugar?

I'm really curious because I may choose to save $8 and only start with 100 billion cells, thus requiring a stepped starter. How do I know when each step is complete?

P.S. I am aware that it is likely I won't get 100 billion cells from a smack pack. I haven't purchased the yeast, so I can't determine viability yet. I will make sure to adjust my numbers in the calculator, but right now I'm just interested in the process.

Thanks in advance.

The rule of thumb I go by is 24 - 36 hours for a starter to multiply to its max population in a given amount of wort. Remember, you are not trying to ferment beer, just grow yeast cells.

Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to figure out timing to get to the point of brewing sometime mid next week. Maybe I will just give them 48 hours to do each step to be sure. Then crash overnight in the fridge to decant.

BTW, is it necessary to crash in the fridge to decant? Or can I leave it out at room temp - for me, about 60* - and have it separate adequately?

Thanks again.

Alright, starter is...um...started. Last question, at least for now.

The online yeast calculators give the option of basic starter, stir plate, or intermittent shaking. I know what each means, but how often does one need to shake the jar to count as intermittent? I work 9 hour days half an hour from home, so there are going to be ten hour blocks without any shaking. I'll make sure to be religious about it when I am home.

On a sale from basic to intermittent, where am I? Am I overcomplicating things?

i shake mine whenever i'm home. seems to have worked well so far.
i think as long as you shake it a few times a day for the first 48hrs you're good. don't think about it too hard...it'll all work itself out.

i'd washed some kolsch yeast back in september & just took it outta the firdge this week. made a L starter & within 36hrs i had a nice krausen with shaking only before & after work.