Organic deep water culture hops (HYDRO HOPS)

Ill be building a contraption for this four site current culture h20 system.

Currently I'm deadest on brewing my own Scottish maple style ale.. I've never brewed beer, I've never grown hops either however I do understand botany and in theory know EXACTLY what this plant wants considering its relatives. Now...
Does anyone have experience with this? One thing I've been wondering is how will we continue these hops, there's no winter for them to sit in ground and chill.. Do I just go back to a early summer photo period and let it "revegetate" or is a dormancy period a necessity. Also a Q to anyone currently growing hops indoors where is over kill regarding PAR/lumens/watts? Does quality increase with wattage? And is there a oz-lb/watt average youve noticed in your system. Ill update as things progress ill be doing a rather unique screen of green for this system.

any recommendations on good hops to grow for this style please let me know. I'm more interested in "land race" hops but there doesn't really seem to be any. Personally long term I'd like to breed hops.
I'm definitely growing fuggle, that's about all I got so far.

Hops arent like growing their cousins. Their cousins grow in a fairly neat confined space that can be pruned and kept clean.

Hops need 15+ feet of (vertical) growing room to reach their anywhere near their full potential, unless you plan to string your hop plants under 20 feet of grow lights its not feasible. They need to go vertical as well, or else your in for a lot of mess as they fall over on themselves trying to grow vertically. At a minimum you need to have your support line holding the plant up slightly vertical so it can climb. Its a vine plant that grows like crazy.

During the prime season hop plants can grow several inches a day.

I dont really know of anyone that has successfully grown hops indoors, there are a few who try by windows or what not but they quickly realize their plants are horribly stunted not only by the lack of root space but by the lack of light.

Have you actually looked at and seen how hops look when they are growing on this forum? I have no experience in hydro but i understand the basics and can see now real feasible way to do it.

I don't know much about its cousin beyond what I see growing in the ditch...I don't know much about hydroponics, beyond the information on this forum...but I can tell you Fuzze is right. Heck, when you grow a hop in a 20" diameter pot at 3 feet high after the first year that pot is almost 1/3 root mass. By the third year it is choking itself to death.

If you do achieve normal growth in your hydro system, you'll need much bigger containers than those.

Damn your ambitious, never brewed a batch but ready to grow their own hops. I admire that, learning to brew was ambition enough for me!

I heard of hydroponic production of hops but that was some company out west doing it in a 30 ft greenhouse. I don't think indoor production is worth all the expenses that go into it. All that energy sucked by the grow lights; the expense of building/maintaining the hydro system. Plus they can grown 20 ft long so your going to have to develop a horizontal trellising system to prevent them from getting scorched by the grow lights. Why bother when you can have an awesome organic yield outside with half the effort?

But on the other hand you will have less disease (unless the rhizomes just rot in your DWC) and pests. Also since there isn't any seasonality would the hops just produce all year? Or would they just become exhausted from the constant pressure of production? Hops have adapted to colder climates than their cousin. That is probably why they have a rhizome and not just simply roots.

You might be setting yourself up for disaster, or you might be onto something. If you do decide to press on, I'd be really interested in following your grow! Good luck.

Oh and GVH DAN is right. That system is way too tiny for rhizomes to even fit. If you dig into a hop patch you will find rhizomes an inch or 2 under the soil. I imagine if the stems growing out of the rhizomes are in water they would rot. Maybe DWC isn't the way to go. Have you considered a system more like NFT?

Day-8 Hydro Hops

Heys guys!

We appreciate all the support and feedback you've given us so far. The hops we chose to run are Fuggle and Teamaker. Fuggle seems to be doing much better but has had no sun burn. all are pushing up top and growing roots down below. As the sun hits plants and buckets they heat up quite a bit. We added a water chiller and banner to block the sun. We seem to be doing much better in just two days.




Healthy Fuggle



burnt Teamaker



Is this a good temp for the root zone?



Wait till I add rooting hormone!


As for vertical growth we plan on using trellis netting or string and would like to try and keeping bending them over. We will be using two 600watt LED's for the lighting and a huge south facing window. We figure that the lights alone should do the job. When the roots eventually out grow the system there are 13 and 35 gallon units we can use. Currently they are only in 8 gallons of water.



Our budget is not a huge issue since we are a hydroponics shop. We are just enjoying a new challenge! Our hops knowledge is limited and would love any feedback. Thanks guys




Full system



We still have at least 9' vertical

What are you using for fertilizers and at what PPM/ec? It looks like they had a hard time adjusting to a hydro setup. Were they transplanted straight from dirt or rooted rhizome cuttings?

CroptimusPrime said:

Is this a good temp for the root zone?

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Who knows...I would pick something close to typical soil temperature in the upper midwest but that changes as the root goes down. I can tell you they go pretty dormant when air temperatures (and corresponding soil temperatures) rise into the 90 Fs and above.

CroptimusPrime said:

As for vertical growth we plan on using trellis netting or string and would like to try and keeping bending them over.

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The plants definitely understand when they are growing "up" and when they are not. They need a certain amount of "up" to actually start producing. There is a fair amount of research on the best angle, the best height, etc. but I'm not a horticulturalist so I can't spout that information out.

I do have a number of plants I keep in pots for the purpose of transporting around to homebrewer talks and the like. I'm limited to a pole about 6 feet tall. I have tried a number of things to boost production in those pots, though it will always be less than something in the ground simply because its root constrained. But here's what I have found:

- Worst: let it grow up the 6 feet and stop. It results in an ugly hop bush.

- Better: Hang twine from the top of the 6 foot pole and train it to the twine. When it reaches the top, drop the twine down 3 feet and let it continue to grow. I get more production out of the top but the bottom 5 to 8 feet is all in a coil sitting on top of the soil in the pot, spilling out and generally a disease magnet.

- Best, so far: Same as the last. I keep dropping it down as it hits the top. But instead of leaving it where it falls, I start wrapping the bine and twine around the pole in a barber's pole fashion. So now I get 12 to 15 feet of growth compacted into the first 2 to 3 feet of the pole, its all going "up", nothing is in the soil. It just seems happier. Eventually though, it turns into an ugly bush at the top because side arms are going in every direction and tangling themselves up. But I guess beauty isn't priority number 1 here, right?

I'm quite familiar with guano/compost teas, but I never heard of a teamaker. Whats that all about?

Teamaker is a low alpha variety of hop. Good for making a tea since its not that bitter.

FermentNEthinG said:

What are you using for fertilizers and at what PPM/ec? It looks like they had a hard time adjusting to a hydro setup. Were they transplanted straight from dirt or rooted rhizome cuttings?

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No nuts for 2 weeks. Ppm is at 120. Yes straight to water.

Here is an update after three weeks in the system.

After several weeks of growth we have observed good root development. It is refreshing to see bines growing several inches per day. Although the plants seem to be vegetating, we suspect the crowns needed to hibernate before we brought them indoor. This is a part of a natural dormancy process that occurs during the winter months. Although they are showing signs of growth, (some varieties more than others), we believe they will respond better if we had given them time to hibernate for a month or so and then continue to wake up the crowns under artificial lighting. More or less this is just for research and we will keep experimenting to bring further development into the growth of hops under artificial lighting in a hydroponic growing system.
Current ppm is 290, PH is 6.3, and water temperature is 69.

Here is another hydro hops update as of November 13, 2013.

We have started training our hops to maximize their growth within the grow space available. The roots are growing very well. These plants are successfully vegetating and I am excited to see the canopy develop further. We are now increasing the ppm and expecting to see a lush vegetative canopy in the following weeks. I think they benefit from the sunlight available through the windows but have proven they are resilient plants and compatible with their hydroponic growing environment. Any advice or questions feel free to ask as we are always available to teach (or learn!) something new. As for an interesting note for comparison, this crown was planted right next to the hydro system in soil and is not cooperating like it's hydroponic sister plants.

Man I gotta say, I had my doubts. But I think you're right. Hops can be cultivated hydroponically. I can't wait to see how you train them.

Maybe you could explain your set up a little bit? Whats that white conical reservoir... thing? And that blue thing that displays temp?

Oh I hope you keep updating this thread. I'm super curious to see how it works out in the future and what kind of yield you get out of them eventually. I feel like this one has the potential to be as entertaining as Irenzart's walk-in cooler.

As far as we are concerned our yield isn't really very important as this is just for beer hobbyists who happen to have green thumbs. The art of growing hydro hops far surpasses the satisfaction of how many cones we end up getting. We are also a hydroponic shop, so we use it as a display and are not very concerned with the costs associated with running the system. : ) if it came down to profit alone, we would be growing them on 20 foot trellises in a field somewhere.

As for the system, we have a DWC (current culture) with 5 gallon buckets. The blue light with the temperature display is our water chiller that maintains our water temperature at 69 degrees f. As for the white conical devise, that is for a separate project and does not link up with the DWC system. But if you are curious, it is a vortex compost tea brewer that brews some amazing biodynamic compost teas. They are especially important in the colonization of microbiology in soil, and increase your beneficial bacteria and fungi count by billions, not millions. They can also be utilized in a hydroponic application. We are going to trellis these to fit our lighting area by training them laterally as well as vertically. Space is definitely a concern. Ideally we will let them veg out for another few weeks and then put them into flower.

As an outdoor hops farmer, I feel like it is fun to grow hops indoor during the winter to curb my hop addiction (lol). I also think they make for a pretty canopy in our store, and am excited to watch cones develop and refresh our store with a hoppy aroma. Try it yourself and give us some feedback!!

Today we changed out the resevoir and increased our ppm to almost 300. Our base water is reverse osmosis and we are experimenting with the cultured solutions vegetative formula. A google search would shed some light into what that is if your are curious. We have supplemented with an algae extract and with a beneficial premium liquid mycorrhizae called orca. Not really trying to go mad scientist with our experiment but I feel like we are giving the plants what they need to be happy.

Thanks for checking in, we appreciate the feedback and questions. I will post more pictures soon : )

-shanti

I wonder, does growing them hydro change the flavors/bitterness/aroma of the hops?

That is definitely something we are interested in. We are really excited to see how the cones set in and whether they grow similar to outdoor hops. We ran into some nutrient issues and some root rot but we are treating the plants with enzymes and on the route to recovery. I will post pictures soon. The plants are growing exponentially but considering this was our first time with hops in a hydro system so we are working on overcoming these issues before we re start new crowns. Keep following as we are interested in feedback and advise.

Shanti

Very cool to see you hop hydro project in action! Glad to see the plants you got from us are growing well.

I don't doubt that you will see cones start to form when the lighting conditions are optimal to initiate flowering. However, like grapes, the characteristics of the hops will change based on the environment they are grown in. It will likely affect the flavor, aroma, alphas or oils in some way. This has often been said about tomatoes that are grown indoors vs outdoors as well.

Growing hops indoors is definitely possible, we just don't recommend anyone try to do it commercially. The hops depend dramatically on their dormancy period.

Anyway, it's really cool to see the project in action. I look forward to seeing the final results. Hopefully some day I can try two beers using the exact same recipe with one set of hops being grown indoors, and the other set outdoors.

-Brian
GLH

I wonder if like hatching animals if it doesn't struggle at least somewhat than the end product is not good or dies. hmm... I'm looking forward to the end result too!

Thanks for the plants, Great Lakes Hops!


Although they are not perfectly healthy, and struggling from root rot, we are enjoying their presence in the store. In fact, being an outdoor hops farmer it is really nice to have some plants around, to edge the anticipation for next season.

The plants are under 12/12 lighting and we are hoping to see pre flowers shortly. Like what several people commented, we are curious to see whether they can flower indoor or whether the environment just isn't going to cut it. Either way, hops make for a beautiful vegetative crop and are enjoyable to watch grow (several inches per day).

Crossing our fingers for even just a handful of cones to smell : )

I love hops.



-shanti

You will probably need to adjust the lighting to initiate flowering. The 12/12 cycle is the lighting that they get on the equator. The lighting down south is the primary reason they don't grow hops down there. In order to initiate flowers the plants are going to have to see around 15 hours of light.

The trigger period to initiate buds for hop cones starts in the peak of summer. Unlike their cousins who flower when the day length starts to reduce during the fall.

The southern edge of North Carolina gets about 14 hours of day length at the Summer Solstice. Hops prefer 15 hours to cone properly. Less day length can reduce yields; sometimes significantly. This is actually why growers in the far Southern States have to use artificial lighting to get normal yields. That's exactly why you don't see commercial hopyards down south.

Keep up the experiment, but if you are anxious for cones; try adjusting the lighting.

-Brian
GLH

Yeah that is a great point. Hops trigger bloom and finish a month or so ahead of their cousins, and thus prefer a slightly extended light cycle. Glad we have access to such reliable knowledge. We have a lot of respect for Great Lakes Hops and appreciate the feedback and support. Thanks! Bumping the timers to 15 hours.

Looking forward to seeing what those pots look like next year. Very interesting.

Awesome read. Keep up the updates!

As with many other projects in life, it never comes easy the first time. We decided to start new plants in our hydro hops project. Along the way the plants were suffering from stress and in order to get the results we desire, we decided to walk away with the knowledge, and not the fruit.

So here we have hydro hops, take 2. Hoping for cones this time!!


We gave the crowns a small dormancy period this time. The soil crowns were planted into one gallons to prevent overwatering and to leave room for a transplant along the way. The lights are set to 18 hours.

Advise is always appreciated.

CroptimusPrime said:

As with many other projects in life, it never comes easy the first time. We decided to start new plants in our hydro hops project. Along the way the plants were suffering from stress and in order to get the results we desire, we decided to walk away with the knowledge, and not the fruit.

So here we have hydro hops, take 2. Hoping for cones this time!!


We gave the crowns a small dormancy period this time. The soil crowns were planted into one gallons to prevent overwatering and to leave room for a transplant along the way. The lights are set to 18 hours.

Advise is always appreciated.

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Hang in there! It still amazes me how many different techniques and uses of different aspects of science and engineering is involved in the brewing of beer. You may be on to something new and exciting, you are starting to go where few hop growers have gone before and I love it! :rockin:

CroptimusPrime said:

As with many other projects in life, it never comes easy the first time. We decided to start new plants in our hydro hops project. Along the way the plants were suffering from stress and in order to get the results we desire, we decided to walk away with the knowledge, and not the fruit.

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Yea, they were looking a little stressed, but I'm still impressed. What does it cost you to run that light? Have you been putting any thought into the practicality of growing hops hydro? The high value of its close relative makes all the expenses of indoor grows worth it. What about in this case?

I'm curious: As a hydroshop do you have customers who genuinely have indoor gardens with legal plants like tomatoes and such?

Greatlakeshops said:

You will probably need to adjust the lighting to initiate flowering. The 12/12 cycle is the lighting that they get on the equator. The lighting down south is the primary reason they don't grow hops down there. In order to initiate flowers the plants are going to have to see around 15 hours of light.

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I didn't know hops flowered according to day length. Wouldn't the primary reason for no hops growing at equator be because there is no dormancy period and disease is rampant?

Hey sorry for the delay, we forgot our old password.

This is ShantiGrows, formally croptimus prime. We are located at the Barefoot Gardener in Lowell, Michigan. Stop by and check us out online or in person : ) I usually update the Facebook more frequently than the brewers-blog, so if you are interested check out the Barefoot Gardener on Facebook.

The new crowns are growing great. Here are some pictures. They are growing several inches per day : )

Soil and hydro side by side rocking out to some mild nutrients and some Michigan winter sunshine supplemented with a t-5.

E.C. Is around 0.3 and the PH is 6.1.

Enjoy!

Hops are one month old today, and are up to 8 feet tall in both soil and hydro.

Greatlakeshops said:

,.....

The southern edge of North Carolina gets about 14 hours of day length at the Summer Solstice. Hops prefer 15 hours to cone properly. Less day length can reduce yields; sometimes significantly. This is actually why growers in the far Southern States have to use artificial lighting to get normal yields. That's exactly why you don't see commercial hopyards down south

.........

-Brian
GLH

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This is awesome info. I am going to use some blue grow lights (let me know if this is correct spectrum).

I grow outside. But two 60 watt ones can add an hour or two of extra daylight to get the required 16+ where I live. I just need enough light to trick the plants. Maybe I will get more yield this growing season.

Edit. I have a 20 by 12 garden bed.

GVH_Dan said:

- Best, so far: Same as the last. I keep dropping it down as it hits the top. But instead of leaving it where it falls, I start wrapping the bine and twine around the pole in a barber's pole fashion. So now I get 12 to 15 feet of growth compacted into the first 2 to 3 feet of the pole, its all going "up", nothing is in the soil. It just seems happier. Eventually though, it turns into an ugly bush at the top because side arms are going in every direction and tangling themselves up. But I guess beauty isn't priority number 1 here, right?

Click to expand...

Do you have any pics of this option? I'm limited in space on the home-front and had thought about doing this, but never seen anyone else doing it this way. :rockin:

Have you considered SCrOG growing? It works wonders for hops cousins when you can train them to a grid/trellis system and keep equal parts of the plant suspended directly under your light system at an even height. If I were the one investing in an indoor hops hydro grow, SCrOG would be the way I would do it. Stealth grow cabinets employ this idea for growing in tight space constraints. The part that I like about it is that hops plants should be easily trained to a lattice like pattern. You can make a frame in PVC and then use 1" chicken wire as the lattice and just weave and train the hops plants to it as they grow.

Food for thought. Otherwise, those VHO T-8's or T-10's you're using are never going to have enough PAR value for good hops flower growth. You'd either need to build a bank of very expensive high intensity 3watt LED's or use very very hot metal halides, which might scorch the plants.

CA_Mouse said:

Do you have any pics of this option? I'm limited in space on the home-front and had thought about doing this, but never seen anyone else doing it this way. :rockin:

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I couldn't find a picture that didn't have someone standing in front of it. Sorry. I ran outside to take a picture but everything is buried in snow. Remind me in the spring and I"ll snap a couple of pictures...of course with the winter we are having in WI, spring won't be until June.

Whoa. it has been a while since we logged on. These pictures were from a few months ago. We got lots of vegetative growth but since their main source of light was from a window,and as spring/summer approached the days got longer, they wouldnt preflower inside. I ended up taking down the indoor hops display from the store once spring hit and my outdoor hopyard started growing (Lots of work) It was very pleasant to be growing hops during the winter however, and next winter we will work on getting some hydroponic indoor hops to bloom. Cheers everybody. Please feel free to post pictures if you decide to try hydrohops yourself!!!

Zachary Shanti

Belmont Hops
Barefoot Gardener

They took over our store this winter, and the store next to ours!

lots of hoppy winter fun!

GVH_Dan said:

I couldn't find a picture that didn't have someone standing in front of it. Sorry. I ran outside to take a picture but everything is buried in snow. Remind me in the spring and I"ll snap a couple of pictures...of course with the winter we are having in WI, spring won't be until June.

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Okay... How about July? That should also give a good idea of the growth rate too!