Crappy beer vendors

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the75

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
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Location
San Marcos
Just dealt with an absolute turd as I purchased a brew stand through a small business owner. Shoddy workmanship, items forgotten, argumentative...frustrating. All the vendors I've dealt with so far have been great, except this one & unfortunately, this was my biggest purchase. Nothing to do with brewing, just had to vent.
 
Are we naming names? I've been sitting here for eight days now and my AG order hasn't even left the store. How long does it typically take to get one simple order milled, bagged, throw in the hop packets and send it out the door?
 
Just dealt with an absolute turd as I purchased a brew stand through a small business owner. Shoddy workmanship, items forgotten, argumentative...frustrating. All the vendors I've dealt with so far have been great, except this one & unfortunately, this was my biggest purchase. Nothing to do with brewing, just had to vent.

Pics? Did you go to a welder or machine shop? Was this a brew store?
 
Both pumps were loose from the frame, one missing a screw. Even after pointing it out, a half ass fix was attempted & failed. Tubing was another issue. After the vendor agreed to provide me with raw tubing so that I could measure & cut lengths specific to my build, I arrived to find 4 lengths of tubes cut & attached to QDs. I'm not joking with these lengths provided: 3 - 18" hoses & 1 - 32" hose. Cost for "full tubing setup" - $40. 7 feet of silicone tubing for $40. Two casters were supposed to be attached, but were missing. On the vendor's behalf, the charge for the casters was deducted...DUH! I swear to Beelzebub I am not a moron. I did as much due diligence as could be done. Everything went well until after I met the vendor & placed a deposit down. Communication went to hell & at that point, I was stuck. After seriously ARGUING with the vendor about how I needed more tubing, it was finally conveyed that he ran out. I had to physically go through my INTENDED brewing process, while he argued that I'm not doing it the way he intended. It was seriously like talking to a brick wall. Since when does a vendor determine how a client intends to setup & run their system?! I could give a rat's ass if my intended system is idiotic, IT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO! He liked direct fire, I liked HERMS. Imagine trying to run a BRUTUS 10 HERMS 15 gallon All grain system with 7 feet of silicone tubing... BUT...He would certainly argue that I'M DOING IT WRONG! FREAKING ANNOYING!
 
Are we naming names? I've been sitting here for eight days now and my AG order hasn't even left the store. How long does it typically take to get one simple order milled, bagged, throw in the hop packets and send it out the door?

I'm not prepared at this point to name names. This vendor did say that he almost couldn't meet me due to an emergency. You never know what can take place in a person's life, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt & I sent him an email to further convey my concerns. I'm going to give him the opportunity to address the issue before I label him the TURD of all TURDS. I'm a patient man...to a degree.
 
Well, surprisingly he responded to my email, even though he claims that "I'm not the first person trying to get extra product for free". Seriously?! Is $40 a ripoff for 7 feet of 1/2" food grade high temp silicone tubing or am I wrong?!?! If this community tells me I'm wrong, I'll let it go.
 
You aren't wrong. 7 feet at most of the other vendors, our cost, is around 2.50 average per foot. Sounds like he shorted you a lot. But that is dependent on what qd fittings you got and if they were included in the 40 dollar price. But with the other issues.....

I say make him famous on here.
 
Almost $6 a foot i would say thats a rip off to me i think i paid under $2.50 a foot for mine.
 
You aren't wrong. 7 feet at most of the other vendors, our cost, is around 2.50 average per foot. Sounds like he shorted you a lot. But that is dependent on what qd fittings you got and if they were included in the 40 dollar price. But with the other issues.....

I say make him famous on here.

The QD fittings were not included. I was charged $150 for all the stainless steel fittings too. A quick count has 8 Female QDs with barbs, 2 SS Male NPT Male QDs, 2 SS Female NPT male QDs, & 2 SS Ball Valves. (I didn't do the math on these, but I'd bet that's not $150 worth)

My problem is mainly the tubing. I don't mind paying a bit more for stuff that I can use since I got a good price on the stand. My problem is that the damn short tubes he gave me are almost all worthless! I'm not going to try & tackle a brewday with 18" tubes!
 
sub'd to keep an eye on this. Hope you can work this out and don't get shafted!
 
sub'd to keep an eye on this. Hope you can work this out and don't get shafted!

Thanks. I'm hoping it gets worked out too. It's partially my fault for going ahead with him prior to getting an EXACT list of everything included in the price, but everytime I asked him questions like "How much tubing comes with it?" or "How many QDs & what kinds come with it?", he'd respond with, "Whatever you need, I can get it for you, we'll work it out". He was mister indirect with all my questions. One of the text messages that he actually responded to during the build I asked, "Are the burners Natural Gas or Low Pressure/Liquefied Petroleum?" Simple question right? His response... "LP is propane"
On another occasion, I asked him if the gas tube is 1/2" threaded or raw tubing. His response: "female end"

All this happened after he had my deposit, so again, I was stuck between a rock & a hard place. Again, the stand was welded well (he told me that a family member welds the stands & he adds onto them), but the workmanship left something to be desired. The burners aren't centered, but I'm planning on automating the system & I will fix that as well. I saved A LOT of money compared to what this would have cost through Morebeer, but you get what you pay for I guess. In his last email, he stated that he barely makes anything on the stands & that he's going to stop selling them soon. Probably because everyone complains about the issues I've mentioned.

Here's what the ENTIRE issue has boiled down to: 8-10 feet of silicone tubing. I told him that if he sends me 8-10 feet of silicone tubing, I'll be happy. I can make two 4-5 foot sections & my brewday will be that much easier. I know I'm not asking for much, but with his first email response accusing me of trying to work him for more product, I'll bet he shoots himself in the foot by denying my request. At which time, I'll share his name on this site as well as all the pictures to show everyone what I'm talking about.
 
I own a machine shop in Oceanside. I had entertained the thought of providing custom, turnkey, non automated rigs engineered for novice and intermediate brewers. I am curious to see what you feel is shoddy about the stand you purchased. If you don't want to share pics, how about some beer?:D
 
I own a machine shop in Oceanside. I had entertained the thought of providing custom, turnkey, non automated rigs engineered for novice and intermediate brewers. I am curious to see what you feel is shoddy about the stand you purchased. If you don't want to share pics, how about some beer?:D

I'd be more than happy to share some beer! My main issue with his workmanship is that the pumps aren't secured tight to the stand itself & the burners are off center. The pumps have a 3" X 3" mounting bracket attached with 4 screw holes about 2 & 3/4" apart. The stand itself is 1 & 1/2" SS tubing. Obviously, there's no way to use all 4 mounting holes, unless something additional was attached to the SS tubing. He tried using 2 of the screw holes. The screws don't go down all the way & they started to strip when he attempted to tighten them up after I pointed out the missing screw & the wiggle. The pumps still wiggle, so I'll have to try & secure them some other way. He did a good job on securing the gas lines, so at least that's a plus. I could have bought the stainless stand alone & done the attaching of gas lines & pumps myself, but he told me that he does about 3-4 of these a month, so I paid the extra costs to have it done right.
 
I'd be more than happy to share some beer! My main issue with his workmanship is that the pumps aren't secured tight to the stand itself & the burners are off center. The pumps have a 3" X 3" mounting bracket attached with 4 screw holes about 2 & 3/4" apart. The stand itself is 1 & 1/2" SS tubing. Obviously, there's no way to use all 4 mounting holes, unless something additional was attached to the SS tubing. He tried using 2 of the screw holes. The screws don't go down all the way & they started to strip when he attempted to tighten them up after I pointed out the missing screw & the wiggle. The pumps still wiggle, so I'll have to try & secure them some other way. He did a good job on securing the gas lines, so at least that's a plus. I could have bought the stainless stand alone & done the attaching of gas lines & pumps myself, but he told me that he does about 3-4 of these a month, so I paid the extra costs to have it done right.

So where are the pics again? :D
 
Bobby_M said:
A builder should be getting the parts at wholesale cost and marking them up to retail prices. It sounds to me like they are paying retail and marking them up to 3x retail.

Yeah, but according to him, he's not making much... I'm going to do the numbers on the SS parts later.
 
A builder should be getting the parts at wholesale cost and marking them up to retail prices. It sounds to me like they are paying retail and marking them up to 3x retail.

Yeah, and the manufacturer of March pumps told me to buy through one of their distributors...MoreBeer! They were not accepting any more accounts, at least that is what they told me. Sometimes the little man gets screwed. If only debating the cost of the tubing and connections, I agree with you. Some manufacturers don't want to ruffle the feathers of their bigger customers.
 
If you can't get wholesale pricing, you might as well just build a parts list for the customer because buying retail, plus paying shipping, plus shipping that additional weight to the end user forces you to charge way more than your competitors.
 
If you can't get wholesale pricing, you might as well just build a parts list for the customer because buying retail, plus paying shipping, plus shipping that additional weight to the end user forces you to charge way more than your competitors.

So maybe that's this guy's issue, but most of his prices for single items are better than morebeer's, so I just don't understand how he can justify doing this build with such a crazy markup on something like tubing...
 
If you can't get wholesale pricing, you might as well just build a parts list for the customer because buying retail, plus paying shipping, plus shipping that additional weight to the end user forces you to charge way more than your competitors.

As far as stands are concerned, I will have to just suck up the cost of the pump and chill plates. I really want to produce a turnkey system that will leave my customers feeling better than the OP does right now. I will probably offer a stand with a parts list for those who like to get into their build. Thanks for the suggestion.

the75, do you belong to a club in SD/NC?
 
As far as stands are concerned, I will have to just suck up the cost of the pump and chill plates. I really want to produce a turnkey system that will leave my customers feeling better than the OP does right now. I will probably offer a stand with a parts list for those who like to get into their build. Thanks for the suggestion.

the75, do you belong to a club in SD/NC?

I joined North County Homebrewers, but I work on the weekends, so I haven't even been able to attend one meeting. Dan at MotherEarth told me about Barley Engineers. They meet up at Stone on Wednesdays, so I'm probably going to check them out since I'm off that day.
 
I joined North County Homebrewers, but I work on the weekends, so I haven't even been able to attend one meeting. Dan at MotherEarth told me about Barley Engineers. They meet up at Stone on Wednesdays, so I'm probably going to check them out since I'm off that day.

I joined NCHB as well. I like the idea of meetings at Stone. I did not know if BE was defunct, I'll definitely check it out. I get most my ingredients from Dan. Good people. I only asked as I might very well bump into you at a meeting. Would be cool to trade beers with fellow HBT'ers. Hope your luck turns regarding the build.
 
I joined NCHB as well. I like the idea of meetings at Stone. I did not know if BE was defunct, I'll definitely check it out. I get most my ingredients from Dan. Good people. I only asked as I might very well bump into you at a meeting. Would be cool to trade beers with fellow HBT'ers. Hope your luck turns regarding the build.

Yeah, I hope it works out too. As I stated earlier, it's all boiling down to the hoses. My biggest frustration was when I was standing right in front of him, telling him that the hoses are too short, he wanted to go over the brewing process with imaginary kettles the way he intended it. I've been researching & planning my HERMS brewing process for months, EVERY DAY, so when he insists that the short hoses will work if I reconfigure my kettles, it was very frustrating. I've had a chance to calm down with the help of this community, but every time I walk into the garage to see those 18" hoses, I get pissed again. It's all making sense now though. Everytime I'd text him a specific question about the build, he either wouldn't reply or he'd be incredibly vague. If he answered his phone, it was the same thing. Just a freaking turd! I work at a casino as a manager & it's all about guest service. Make the guest happy, bottom line. It's not just about that specific guest, it's about developing your reputation. If this guy is seriously going to take over $1500 from me, tell me he's not making much money on the sale, then refuse to make me happy by parting with another 8-10 feet of cheap silicone tubing, he must not give a rat's ass about his reputation. I'd put his brand right up there with Snake Oil Peddlers. I should have checked to see if his storefront was on a trailer. Still hasn't responded to my request. :(

My name's Nick by the way. We'll have to meet up at MotherEarth one of these days for a brew. Thanks for the support everyone!
 
Hey Nick, my name is James. I'll PM you to setup a ME meetup and possible beer swap if you are interested. Maybe get Dan to try our beer and give some opinions. That's what I really need at this point, real constructive criticism by other brewers.
 
Hey Nick, my name is James. I'll PM you to setup a ME meetup and possible beer swap if you are interested. Maybe get Dan to try our beer and give some opinions. That's what I really need at this point, real constructive criticism by other brewers.

Sounds like a plan James!
I just sent him a last email as he did not respond to my request for 8-10 feet of tubing. If I had just received 8-10 feet of tubing, I could have taken apart two of the 18" hoses & had a couple 4-5 foot sections that I could actually use to brew with. It looks like I will now be going to my LHBS to spend another $20 on tubing so that I can actually brew. I'm going to put together a full review on this guy & post it. I'd hate for anyone else to deal with what I did. I'm not interested in creating a smear campaign, so I'll do my best to keep it factual & direct, but that will be hard considering that every time I pointed out an issue, this guy wanted to place them blame on me. I'm 37 years old, but still "living & learning" lol! :eek:
 
Sounds like a plan James!
I just sent him a last email as he did not respond to my request for 8-10 feet of tubing. If I had just received 8-10 feet of tubing, I could have taken apart two of the 18" hoses & had a couple 4-5 foot sections that I could actually use to brew with. It looks like I will now be going to my LHBS to spend another $20 on tubing so that I can actually brew. I'm going to put together a full review on this guy & post it. I'd hate for anyone else to deal with what I did. I'm not interested in creating a smear campaign, so I'll do my best to keep it factual & direct, but that will be hard considering that every time I pointed out an issue, this guy wanted to place them blame on me. I'm 37 years old, but still "living & learning" lol! :eek:

Sorry to hear things haven't worked out as of yet. Hopefully he responds to your last email and gets you the tubing you need.

Do you have a hardware store you could get the tubing from? I've found that my LHBS charges A LOT more than the hardware store down the road from me for tubing. That may be another option to save you some scratch.
 
Doctor_Wily said:
Sorry to hear things haven't worked out as of yet. Hopefully he responds to your last email and gets you the tubing you need.

Do you have a hardware store you could get the tubing from? I've found that my LHBS charges A LOT more than the hardware store down the road from me for tubing. That may be another option to save you some scratch.

I'll check around, but the tubing is usually about $2-2.50/ foot through most homebrew shops, so not a major expense compared to what I just invested in the brewstand. $20 more bucks & some quick disassembly of the short hoses will get me there. It's more the principle of having to actually do it when I shouldn't have to.
When I made a trip to go see his work, he showed me a build he had done for someone else who he called "Picky". The hoses he had for it were very short & I told him that I'd need longer hoses. He said, "I'll just give you the hose & the QDs so you can cut them any length you want." I also sent him two texts stating that I needed 20-25 feet of tubing.
I just can't fathom how this guy can take over $1500 from me & draw a line in the sand over $20 in hoses. It's mind-bottling...yes...I said mind-bottling...
 
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